Curious about comparisons of the bigger sizes (around 1000cm2+) of these foils for all around winging...

Looking for user friendly foils for the challenges of getting through the intermediate challenges of learning to pump and jibe in mostly inland "flat" fresh water with a number of trips to the Gorge each year.

I'm drawn to all the talk of the low stall speed, glide, pump and user friendliness of the Progression foils.

And people seem SUPER stoked on the all around performance of the Silks, but haven't heard much about the low end or how they pump.

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kook123 said..
Curious about comparisons of the bigger sizes (around 1000cm2+) of these foils for all around winging...

Looking for user friendly foils for the challenges of getting through the intermediate challenges of learning to pump and jibe in mostly inland "flat" fresh water with a number of trips to the Gorge each year.

I'm drawn to all the talk of the low stall speed, glide, pump and user friendliness of the Progression foils.

And people seem SUPER stoked on the all around performance of the Silks, but haven't heard much about the low end or how they pump.

As far as performance as a foil for winging goes the Silks blow the Progression out of the water IMO. The progressions are slow moving surf foils which pump around like crazy. Which, if you are a surfer, then that's a great choice. The Silks however, have the best carving and drive through turns of any foil I've ever ridden. They aren't low end or pump specialists but they have great glide and speed. Having wing'd almost every surf foil out there I'd choose the Silk 100% of the time. I tested the glide on the 650 in waist/belly high swell at Arlington this week. 1.5 miles flagged out linking swell before I needed the re-engage the wing. So, if you are in tune with the foil, how to pump it, where to be on swell, even the small ones are great. I also got on the 1050 yesterday after testing the Lift Havoc lineup and it was like falling in love all over again. The 1050 with 132 tail is so crazy loose and fun to ride in knee high swell. 360s, tacks, wing tricks are all easy and fun without compromising the carve.

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BWalnut said..

kook123 said..
Curious about comparisons of the bigger sizes (around 1000cm2+) of these foils for all around winging...

Looking for user friendly foils for the challenges of getting through the intermediate challenges of learning to pump and jibe in mostly inland "flat" fresh water with a number of trips to the Gorge each year.

I'm drawn to all the talk of the low stall speed, glide, pump and user friendliness of the Progression foils.

And people seem SUPER stoked on the all around performance of the Silks, but haven't heard much about the low end or how they pump.

As far as performance as a foil for winging goes the Silks blow the Progression out of the water IMO. The progressions are slow moving surf foils which pump around like crazy. Which, if you are a surfer, then that's a great choice. The Silks however, have the best carving and drive through turns of any foil I've ever ridden. They aren't low end or pump specialists but they have great glide and speed. Having wing'd almost every surf foil out there I'd choose the Silk 100% of the time. I tested the glide on the 650 in waist/belly high swell at Arlington this week. 1.5 miles flagged out linking swell before I needed the re-engage the wing. So, if you are in tune with the foil, how to pump it, where to be on swell, even the small ones are great. I also got on the 1050 yesterday after testing the Lift Havoc lineup and it was like falling in love all over again. The 1050 with 132 tail is so crazy loose and fun to ride in knee high swell. 360s, tacks, wing tricks are all easy and fun without compromising the carve.

Thanks BW...and how are those Havocs? Part of my curiosity is sparked by the fact that I find myself frequently stalling out my Lift HAX's (I know, speed is my friend, but that is the pattern in my currently foiling).

While the Silks seem like the high performance winner, I still wonder whether the Progressions might be the most appropriate for ME...

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kook123 said..

BWalnut said..

kook123 said..
Curious about comparisons of the bigger sizes (around 1000cm2+) of these foils for all around winging...

Looking for user friendly foils for the challenges of getting through the intermediate challenges of learning to pump and jibe in mostly inland "flat" fresh water with a number of trips to the Gorge each year.

I'm drawn to all the talk of the low stall speed, glide, pump and user friendliness of the Progression foils.

And people seem SUPER stoked on the all around performance of the Silks, but haven't heard much about the low end or how they pump.

As far as performance as a foil for winging goes the Silks blow the Progression out of the water IMO. The progressions are slow moving surf foils which pump around like crazy. Which, if you are a surfer, then that's a great choice. The Silks however, have the best carving and drive through turns of any foil I've ever ridden. They aren't low end or pump specialists but they have great glide and speed. Having wing'd almost every surf foil out there I'd choose the Silk 100% of the time. I tested the glide on the 650 in waist/belly high swell at Arlington this week. 1.5 miles flagged out linking swell before I needed the re-engage the wing. So, if you are in tune with the foil, how to pump it, where to be on swell, even the small ones are great. I also got on the 1050 yesterday after testing the Lift Havoc lineup and it was like falling in love all over again. The 1050 with 132 tail is so crazy loose and fun to ride in knee high swell. 360s, tacks, wing tricks are all easy and fun without compromising the carve.

Thanks BW...and how are those Havocs? Part of my curiosity is sparked by the fact that I find myself frequently stalling out my Lift HAX's (I know, speed is my friend, but that is the pattern in my currently foiling).

While the Silks seem like the high performance winner, I still wonder whether the Progressions might be the most appropriate for ME...

If absolute stall speed is your goal then yes, the progressions probably will be the winner for you. I'm fairly certain those can pretty much go in reverse lol. However, when I tested them I thought "wow, these are noticeably slow" so, track down a demo if you can. I have the silk quiver for demo until AWSI if you want to try it.

The Havocs have insane low end, it would be interesting to compare them to the progressions now. Here's my first ride on the Havocs, gauges were averaging 9 knots at the time:

www.instagram.com/reel/C-1ElqNgJ7c/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

For me, the Havocs felt like a significant improvement over the F-One Sk8 foils which I never really liked. The Havoc has much better low end and stall speed, better turns, more user friendly. It just doesn't want to carve/drive through turns like the Silks do, they are on their own in that aspect. I didn't do a big review/test on the Havocs as I was more interested in my testing of the Florence 110X. That review will drop soon, maybe today.

My last shoutout for the Silks is just that they are high performance, but more user friendly than any other foil I've ever ridden. They just want you to succeed no matter what. For me it was power tacks, 360s, and the best surfing of my life. For my buddy who was learning, it was getting his gybes and foot switches down. Just change the tail and magically that 1050 goes from beginner, to intermediate, to advanced.

Slow is relative. The 140 and down progressions aren't that slow. They're thinner than the silks but true somehow a bit slower due to the section. 170 and 200 maybe different. Depends what you want though. locked in straps boosting and going fast then yeah silk for sure. However some of my favourite sessions are on a mid length in light winds playing in the shorebreak onshore junk pumping between waves and barely using the wing. For that the progression 140 is still the best. You will need a smaller foil though whereas I think a silk 850 (or 1050 if ur heavy) would cover almost all winging

I've used both foils extensively. The issue with most of the progressions (other than the 125) is that they work well in a pretty narrow power range. They can be unstable and pitchy when overpowered. They are also quite slow for the given power input (which translates to why they pump well). I found I needed a pretty big quiver of the Uni gear to satisfy the range of my conditions. the 125 is the exception and I really liked how it rode. I disagree that the 140 isn't slow - it felt very slow to me and had a hard top end that it wouldn't exceed.

the silk is the opposite. It handles being over and underpowered very well and stays consistent when overpowered. The top end can be pushed and it just ramps up front foot pressure but doesn't get pitchy or weird. The Silks are fast for the given size.



Silk turns better but the progressions also turn very nicely. Silk breaches very predictably. Progression pumps better at the low end, but the silk doesn't pump badly as long as you don't dig yourself into a hole.

Hi, I normally use Mikes Lab on Wingfoil. I used the P140 in prone for several months and it helped my evolution tremendously, but when I tried it in wingfoil it was a total disappointment. Now I just use AFS SILK 850 in prone and it is a fantastic foil although it doesn't pump like the P140, everything else makes it better. I have tried the silk in wingfoil while the new Mikeslab arrive and it has pleasantly surprised me, fast and fun, I think that with a longer mast I could be happy sailing in wingfoil with the silk if I had not known the Mikes lab foils

A little off topic, but does anyone know how the AFS silk compares to the new Armstrong HA foils. Looking at a silk 1050 setup.

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wifoil said..
A little off topic, but does anyone know how the AFS silk compares to the new Armstrong HA foils. Looking at a silk 1050 setup.

I've been offered a ride on the HA 880 but haven't taken them up on it yet. The main comments I hear are that the HA's are slower and have less carve but more beginner friendly. A beginner rider who tested both this past week went with the HA 980 over the Silk 1050 because he was already on Armstrong gear and said that while the HA 980 and Silk 1050 had similar glide, the HA 980 was easier for him to control because the Silk 1050 "could turn anywhere and everywhere."

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Ursus said..
Hi, I normally use Mikes Lab on Wingfoil. I used the P140 in prone for several months and it helped my evolution tremendously, but when I tried it in wingfoil it was a total disappointment. Now I just use AFS SILK 850 in prone and it is a fantastic foil although it doesn't pump like the P140, everything else makes it better. I have tried the silk in wingfoil while the new Mikeslab arrive and it has pleasantly surprised me, fast and fun, I think that with a longer mast I could be happy sailing in wingfoil with the silk if I had not known the Mikes lab foils

I got some long masts for AFS... the AFS 95 is very thin like 12.5mm but also has a two degree rake,.. it's designed for the Pure 560 Race. I also have a NoLimitz v2 93 (more like 95cm with AFS connector), and it rides really well with the Silk 850. Now have to compare masts on the 850 and the Pure 700/900. Rode the AFS UHM 85 today and that works really well too. 80 for me was doable but just a little bit too short for pushing speed and upwind.

If anybody needs a NoLimitz v2 93cm for AFS I have it in stock here in San Francisco.

Loving the Silk 850 for winging... my daily driver right now. Not my fastest foil, not the glidiest either (for passive glide), but is decently quick and is really fun for zigzagging on swell and trying to carve and create speed in the turns.

I have spent a ton of time on the AFS Silk 1050/152 and 80cm mast. It is an amazing setup. It's super easy to use but also super high performance. I would say if your priority is surfing the Lake chop and carving this is the foil for you. The low end is great and it pumps really well too for a surf wing. I have a ton of videos riding it on my yewtube if you want to see it in action in Lake Ontario conditions. I'm currently 87kg and ride the 1050 on a KT 7' 19" 100L with Unit Dlab 3.5m as my light wind setup. Here is an average Lake Ontario wind 10-15kts swell day:
?si=rtBxgVcnCNsLGcGN

hah your setup is pretty close to mine... was riding a lot the 1050/152/80 with a 90l AFS Midlength and 3.5 D/LAB. also use the 850 a lot with the Skybrid 70l and longer masts... usually 3.5 D/LAB though

your conditions look amazing!

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wifoil said..
A little off topic, but does anyone know how the AFS silk compares to the new Armstrong HA foils. Looking at a silk 1050 setup.

I demo-ed the HA880 with the 795Perf mast before buying the Silk1050+850.Getting on foil was not a big diff between the two, The HA880 has a bit more better glide.The AFS UHM80 is a stiffer mast by quite a bit. The whole AFS set up feels stiffer/more precise as well.The Silk 1050 is faster and turning tighter with a lot more grip.
I found them both very user friendly, but the bit flexy Armstrong Perf mast for my 97kg and that I hear lots of stories of people need to try a lot to find the magic Stab/shim set up for the Armstrong foils was for me a deal breaker.
Even more so because Silk set works great as an complete package
On the positive side, the Armstrong HA has more frontwing size options while I missed a bit a bigger/glidy Silk.AFS just launched the Enduro, wich seems to be closer to the Armstrong HA series, I have an 1300 in order

www.glissattitude.com/web/image/product.product/24808/image_1024/%5B3760366177521%5D%20Afs%20AILE%20ENDURO%20%28700%29?unique=75aeb79

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foilthegreats said..
Here is an average Lake Ontario wind 10-15kts swell day:...

that looks great except for the full wetsuit, booties and gloves. i assume that wasn't taken this summer.

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beached57 said..

foilthegreats said..
Here is an average Lake Ontario wind 10-15kts swell day:...

that looks great except for the full wetsuit, booties and gloves. i assume that wasn't taken this summer.

It's summer. Wearing a 2mm long John. I am covered for sun and abrasion protection. Sailing gloves to keep my hands silky smooth and reef booties because limestone where I launch can be razor sharp. I get a lot heavier in the winter

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sunsetsailboards said..
hah your setup is pretty close to mine... was riding a lot the 1050/152/80 with a 90l AFS Midlength and 3.5 D/LAB. also use the 850 a lot with the Skybrid 70l and longer masts... usually 3.5 D/LAB though

your conditions look amazing!

Sounds like a great setup!