I'm have Fone Gravity 1800, Armstrong FG board 98-99L, 85cm mast, 5m wing. I'm 160lb (72kg).

I'm super stable on the foil in both directions - no problems there. Can do Ss and control pitch.
I cannot yet do a full gybe.
I mostly take too long, lose power on the foil and end up in Taxi.
Or, if I try to do it faster I lose balance.

I cannot do toeside yet either.

I'm ok at pumping. When there is wind I can pump myself up to foil. I do not have enough strength to pump myself up in <10-12kt wind.

Right now I have a feeling that the foil is too slow for me. I spend a lot of arm strength just trying to keep the wing powered. It feels like I'm not picking up any speed no matter how much I try and I eventually have to depower.
I also feel like the foil doesn't have enough glide to power me through the gybe.

There is definitely a skill issue here as well, however I feel confident and keen to try another foil as I never had one.

I'm thinking of moving to Armstrong, but no idea where to go. I was gearing myself up for HS foils, but I see they changed their lineup.
Most forum topics say that the new HA line is amazing and suggest going there. However I don't know if these are good for me considering my skill.

People say that HA has a lot of lift, sometimes equivalent to 2x of typical beginner foils.
Because of that, HA680 seems like a good choice? I don't really know.
I also have no idea which tail.
TC60 fuselage seems like good default?

i don't know anything about the FOne Gravity 1800, but it sounds like you just need more time winging. I've been on Armstrong gear for years, but I've rarely found getting the latest and greatest gear suddenly made me a better winger. Only practice does. That said, I'm 90 kgs and use the Armstrong HA 1180 for most of my winging, especially light wind (which in my area is what we mostly get). The new HAs (and MAs) would be my advice over the HS's. The newer HAs are very easy to ride. Have tried the new MA as well, and feel you cannot go wrong with those either. I'd stick with 60 fuselage, and at your weight, probably 980/990 front wings for lighter wind, or maybe even in the 800 range. I use HA 780 for stronger winds. For stabilizer you have so many options with Armstrong, but I use 232 mostly. Many prefer the 180.

If you are struggling with this foil, a foil with 3 times less area is a bad idea. But a foil can be too big when learning to gybe. I would try something like Seven Seas 1300 or 1500.

@beached57 I hear you. I completely agree with you that I do need more time and that my skill is not there. I intend to keep practicing on this foil for at least another 10-15 sessions. The problem right now is my stamina. Due to wing pulling me so hard when I'm on foil; it takes a lot of energy to just keep foiling and I get tired in about 1-2h.

The main reason why I'm considering other gear is because:

1. I can get on foil easy - absolutely no issue there. I'm capable of dealing with much higher wind - been doing 25kn with the 5m wing.

2. The top speed is low and the glide is not great. This forces me to do quick gybes which I just cannot do and I fall.

I had a similar feeling that something is off with my previous board. That board was inflatable and had fixed mast position. The 1800 was just giving too much lift on that board forcing me to move almost 15cm forward every time it starts lifting. As I was complete beginner I would lose balance when doing such drastic movement and fall. I tried powering though it but it was clear to me something wasn't right. I had about 15 session on it but still getting on foil was very hard. After getting a rigid board of even smaller volume, I went on foil the first day. I'm getting a similar feeling now. The gybe is not easy, but it also feels like it shouldn't be this hard.

3. When the wind dies down, other people around me tend to stay on foil while I land on taxi.

From what I could tell all of them are heavier and visibly bigger than me, but have the same wing. They usually also have waaaay smaller foils than mine. This reinforced my thinking explained under item 2).

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Faff said..
If you are struggling with this foil, a foil with 3 times less area is a bad idea. But a foil can be too big when learning to gybe. I would try something like Seven Seas 1300 or 1500.

Thanks! I'd love to try that foil! I've read that lots of people are really happy with it. I got the alu setup. From what I can tell the 7Seas is not compatible it?

i wasn't suggesting that you NOT change gear, but rather don't expect new gear to be a cure-all. if you feel the 1800 is too slow and not glidey enough, then sure, change it up. for a good while i was only on my HS 1850 while winging, and i felt it, too, was too slow. so i went to the HA 1180, which has the same amount of lift but much smoother, faster, and better glide. so this new gear did help me, but like you, i still often find i'm struggling while others are cruising around me. THIS is what i mean by practice rather than gear being the factor.

Hey Shaping,

I'm 85kg. I started on the HS1850 and HS1550 and then "graduated" to the HA2 1180, 980, and 780. I pair the 180 stab with the 1180 and 980. I pair the 140 stab with the 780. I use the Cedrus mast with their 60 cm fuse.

I think you'd really like the HA2 foils and it would probably boost your learning curve for the reasons you allude to. Some day you'll go back to the Gravity 1800 and it will feel like driving a bus by comparison. I don't suggest sizing down to 680 though. If you were just going to buy one front wing, I'd suggest to 1180 or 1080 (probably the 1080).

You don't describe the conditions at your local spot. I'm in the Columbia Gorge. 18-25kts is fairly common so riding smaller foils (like the 680 you mention) doesn't generally require advanced startup skills.

Initially, I rode the 1180 quite a bit but seldom ride it now (it will have a second life next season when I start parawinging, however). The 980 is a great foil for all conditions in the Gorge. It's glidely and quick, and comes up early and easily. The 780 definitely requires a bit more board speed but also handles beautifully.

Cheers.

That foil is definitely going to be slow and not focused on glide. Aspect ratio is 4.6. You don't need to change brands at all to get to where you are wanting to be with glide through gybes. The largest sk8 sizes or the smallest seven seas sizes would be a huge change for you at an aspect ratio of 8 vs that gravity.

Down the road a shorter mast will help too. Try to get to 80cm on your next mast if you can.

I don't think you should change brands (or mast height at this stage). I found the seven seas 1100 to be a great sized progression foil. For your weight it will get up on foil easily & provide a stable platform for gybes & a good forgiving low end. It can carve very well too. It will probably become your light wind foil when you get better.
I wouldn't change to a HA foil at your stage. I did & it held me up. It's only now after years of foiling that I appreciate the benefits of MA foils.

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beached57 said..
i wasn't suggesting that you NOT change gear, but rather don't expect new gear to be a cure-all. if you feel the 1800 is too slow and not glidey enough, then sure, change it up. for a good while i was only on my HS 1850 while winging, and i felt it, too, was too slow. so i went to the HA 1180, which has the same amount of lift but much smoother, faster, and better glide. so this new gear did help me, but like you, i still often find i'm struggling while others are cruising around me. THIS is what i mean by practice rather than gear being the factor.

This is my current train of thought! I definitely do not think it's only gear - but I hope that some gear adjustment can make this easier. With the CF > HS > HA setup before, I had my eyes on HS1550v2 as the next foil. Nowadays I cannot really tell. People online say that MA should not be picked over the HAv2 which is really strange for me given that I was thinking that MA is the new HS.

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Stumbleweed said..
Hey Shaping,

I'm 85kg. I started on the HS1850 and HS1550 and then "graduated" to the HA2 1180, 980, and 780. I pair the 180 stab with the 1180 and 980. I pair the 140 stab with the 780. I use the Cedrus mast with their 60 cm fuse.

I think you'd really like the HA2 foils and it would probably boost your learning curve for the reasons you allude to. Some day you'll go back to the Gravity 1800 and it will feel like driving a bus by comparison. I don't suggest sizing down to 680 though. If you were just going to buy one front wing, I'd suggest to 1180 or 1080 (probably the 1080).

You don't describe the conditions at your local spot. I'm in the Columbia Gorge. 18-25kts is fairly common so riding smaller foils (like the 680 you mention) doesn't generally require advanced startup skills.

Initially, I rode the 1180 quite a bit but seldom ride it now (it will have a second life next season when I start parawinging, however). The 980 is a great foil for all conditions in the Gorge. It's glidely and quick, and comes up early and easily. The 780 definitely requires a bit more board speed but also handles beautifully.

Cheers.

Thanks! I'm definitely open to any Armstrong foil. I'm not set on HA line. Lot's of people online suggest skipping the MA and going straight to HAv2 which is why I was thinking about it. Then most people say that HAv2 has literally 2x the capability of the typical low aspect foils in terms of lift which landed me on the 680 - 2x680=1360 which feels for me like a good progression 1800 => 1360 given my weight.

The conditions where I am at are normally 12kn with 15-18 gusts. Sometimes 18kn with 25-28kn gusts. I'd prefer if it was a foil that can do low end right now - I just want more speed/glide.

The parawining info good! I'd like to try para, downwind and SUP at some point. If the 1080 would help me branch out - it's 100% an option!

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@BWalnut and @Microsurfer - I wanted to pick up 7S originally. I got the Alu setup with Gravity 1800 ( www.f-one.world/product/alu-fuselage-74-surf/ ). From what I can tell I would have to replace everything to 7S as they do not have FTC option which caused me to re-examine brands.

See if you can test ride the Armstrong S1 line. It's not sexy but it is one of the best for beginner skill development.

Ask a question get loads of answers. From my foiling on early low aspect gear I would say you could benefit enormously by using a 6m wing in the lighter conditions. Also a smaller tail and a plate shim may get you the light wind experience you are looking for. I (65kgs) can foil a GFM200 in 6-8knts without any swell but only with a 6m wing, totally useless with a 5m and I have tried, the difference is radical and the difference between wing brands is big too! Like you I am also looking to move to newer gear but I believe you should be able to enjoy the large slow foil much more, sounds like you are underpowered wing wise, those are my thoughts from my experience.

Hi, F-One user here. My recommendation would be to go for Phantom 1280 if you want to stick with the FCT System. That's probably the cheapest Option to upgrade.

However if you progress more you want to upgrade to the Carbon Foils and Titan Mastfoot anyway.

I've 63 kg and used a hell lot of F-One Foils since I started Wingfoiling in 2021 and in my Opinion the Phantom is still a really good Foil and a big upgrade to the Gravity. And as you are still making a lot of progress you will definetly grow out foils bigger than 1000 anyway..... the next Foil will therefore only stay for maybe one season with you.

After 4 years I now use the Eagle 790 as a daily driver and SK 8 650 in serious conditions. Never thought that I would end up with such small Foils

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Shaping3263 said..

beached57 said..
i wasn't suggesting that you NOT change gear, but rather don't expect new gear to be a cure-all. if you feel the 1800 is too slow and not glidey enough, then sure, change it up. for a good while i was only on my HS 1850 while winging, and i felt it, too, was too slow. so i went to the HA 1180, which has the same amount of lift but much smoother, faster, and better glide. so this new gear did help me, but like you, i still often find i'm struggling while others are cruising around me. THIS is what i mean by practice rather than gear being the factor.

This is my current train of thought! I definitely do not think it's only gear - but I hope that some gear adjustment can make this easier. With the CF > HS > HA setup before, I had my eyes on HS1550v2 as the next foil. Nowadays I cannot really tell. People online say that MA should not be picked over the HAv2 which is really strange for me given that I was thinking that MA is the new HS.

Stumbleweed said..
Hey Shaping,

I'm 85kg. I started on the HS1850 and HS1550 and then "graduated" to the HA2 1180, 980, and 780. I pair the 180 stab with the 1180 and 980. I pair the 140 stab with the 780. I use the Cedrus mast with their 60 cm fuse.

I think you'd really like the HA2 foils and it would probably boost your learning curve for the reasons you allude to. Some day you'll go back to the Gravity 1800 and it will feel like driving a bus by comparison. I don't suggest sizing down to 680 though. If you were just going to buy one front wing, I'd suggest to 1180 or 1080 (probably the 1080).

You don't describe the conditions at your local spot. I'm in the Columbia Gorge. 18-25kts is fairly common so riding smaller foils (like the 680 you mention) doesn't generally require advanced startup skills.

Initially, I rode the 1180 quite a bit but seldom ride it now (it will have a second life next season when I start parawinging, however). The 980 is a great foil for all conditions in the Gorge. It's glidely and quick, and comes up early and easily. The 780 definitely requires a bit more board speed but also handles beautifully.

Cheers.

Thanks! I'm definitely open to any Armstrong foil. I'm not set on HA line. Lot's of people online suggest skipping the MA and going straight to HAv2 which is why I was thinking about it. Then most people say that HAv2 has literally 2x the capability of the typical low aspect foils in terms of lift which landed me on the 680 - 2x680=1360 which feels for me like a good progression 1800 => 1360 given my weight.

The conditions where I am at are normally 12kn with 15-18 gusts. Sometimes 18kn with 25-28kn gusts. I'd prefer if it was a foil that can do low end right now - I just want more speed/glide.

The parawining info good! I'd like to try para, downwind and SUP at some point. If the 1080 would help me branch out - it's 100% an option!

--------

@BWalnut and @Microsurfer - I wanted to pick up 7S originally. I got the Alu setup with Gravity 1800 ( www.f-one.world/product/alu-fuselage-74-surf/ ). From what I can tell I would have to replace everything to 7S as they do not have FTC option which caused me to re-examine brands.

Ohhh that makes sense. I had forgotten that about F-One.

Well, before you switch brands take the time to ask yourself where you want your riding to go. Every brand has a bit of a niche in their own way.

Please don't buy the HA 680 as your second foil without trying it first. I see/understand your math and idea but it's very likely the wrong choice. There's an infinite amount of FUN and learning to be done as you size down and skipping everything between 1800 and 680 is not advised IMO.

Shaping, I'd wait before moving forwards on any of that stuff. As for wing, consider your height. If the 5m nearly drags tips when getting up, then stick with that. Going bigger may mean you touch the tips when pumping up on foil, and it won't assist.
Are you learning in lumpy conditions? If so, this will likely make things harder for balance. Try flat conditions if you can.
What is the fuse length like? If it's short, then see if you can borrow a longer one to increase stability. What is the tail size? You could change this to decrease drag and possibly speed the foil up.
Why limit yourself to Armstrong? I'd try and borrow some other friends gear beforehand to see if there's any difference before heading down the rabbit hole of a specific brand.
2 hardest things for many foilers with winging. 1st getting powered up enough with control to get on foil. 2nd learning how to ride toeside. It's really hard for many but once you unlock toeside, things open up a lot. I'd be inclined to stay on stable gear and learn toeside before migrating to gear that's faster/looser. I think you are trying to put yourself under a lot of pressure to complete gybes without knowing how to ride toeside. I feel you should not be moving your feet during transitions so you need to go in toeside or exit toeside.
Work on it.
Good luck and don't be too hard on yourself.

Shaping3263, I rode Armstrong extensively for the first three years of my wing foiling journey (I'm about 5 years in with tons of time on the water, recently completed the M2O). For the last two years, I've been on Mikeslab. I owned HS, HA v1, MA v1, HA v2 and a bunch of different tails.

The simple fact of the matter is that the stage of foiling you are in is one where you will quickly outgrow the equipment you need at any given moment. I think I went through 5 boards in my first 8 months and probably 10 foils in my first two years.

I'm in Hawaii, our typical trades on Oahu are around 10-20 mph. I'm heavier than you (80kg) and yes, that 8kg makes a huge difference, but here's some thoughts...

1. If your Fone mast is compatible with the newer Fone foils, there is ZERO reason to switch to Armstrong. The newer FOne stuff is amazing, finding the right foil and size requires talking to someone who knows their line up. No matter what the brand an 1800 foil at your weight will be a total dog, BUT, if you can't gybe that, its most likely NOT the fault of the foil. You might be too aggressive in your turn and/or not timing it right with bumps in the water, gusts, and/or how you maneuver the wing.

2. If you do switch to Armstrong, the newer HA definitely do not have twice the lift. Whoever is telling you that is mistaken and I'm sure there are others on this site who would agree. What they do have in terms of both lift and stability is that it is comparable to 1-2 sizes up compared to the V1 foils. So a v2 680 feels more like a v1 925, but is a far superior foil. The 680 is way more forgiving than the 925 especially when it comes to recovery from breach and is definitely more surfy. That said, 680 is probably a little further down the line in your journey. If you went Armstrong, a 780 or 880 would be ambitious, but could be doable, but it will make things more challenging while learning transitions. I would not spend money on the older HA stuff, the next generation are so much more user friendly.

3. Unless you're planning on prone surfing, I also would not get a shorter mast. If anything, you would likely be better off with a 93cm. In Hawaii, easily 80-90% of the wingers consider that as the "go to" standard. The exception is riding 75-85cm if you ride consistently in shallow reef breaks or over 100cm if you're racing and doing a lot of down winding in open ocean.

4. Tails on Armstrong, the 180 was always my favorite. It was more stable than the 195 and much faster than the 232.

If I were in your shoes, I would start by finding someone you trust who knows about your options with FOne. I hope this helps a little.

Gravity 1800 is absolutely not good for winging. Easiest is to replace it with a FCT Phantom1480 or with a 1680+1280, cheap upgrade and great for learning.

Demo some different foils. If they turn you into Kai Lenny you have the answer. Or as suggested above more time on the water will improve your technique.

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Oahuwaterwalker said..
Shaping3263, I rode Armstrong extensively for the first three years of my wing foiling journey (I'm about 5 years in with tons of time on the water, recently completed the M2O). For the last two years, I've been on Mikeslab. I owned HS, HA v1, MA v1, HA v2 and a bunch of different tails.

The simple fact of the matter is that the stage of foiling you are in is one where you will quickly outgrow the equipment you need at any given moment. I think I went through 5 boards in my first 8 months and probably 10 foils in my first two years.

I'm in Hawaii, our typical trades on Oahu are around 10-20 mph. I'm heavier than you (80kg) and yes, that 8kg makes a huge difference, but here's some thoughts...

1. If your Fone mast is compatible with the newer Fone foils, there is ZERO reason to switch to Armstrong. The newer FOne stuff is amazing, finding the right foil and size requires talking to someone who knows their line up. No matter what the brand an 1800 foil at your weight will be a total dog, BUT, if you can't gybe that, its most likely NOT the fault of the foil. You might be too aggressive in your turn and/or not timing it right with bumps in the water, gusts, and/or how you maneuver the wing.

2. If you do switch to Armstrong, the newer HA definitely do not have twice the lift. Whoever is telling you that is mistaken and I'm sure there are others on this site who would agree. What they do have in terms of both lift and stability is that it is comparable to 1-2 sizes up compared to the V1 foils. So a v2 680 feels more like a v1 925, but is a far superior foil. The 680 is way more forgiving than the 925 especially when it comes to recovery from breach and is definitely more surfy. That said, 680 is probably a little further down the line in your journey. If you went Armstrong, a 780 or 880 would be ambitious, but could be doable, but it will make things more challenging while learning transitions. I would not spend money on the older HA stuff, the next generation are so much more user friendly.

3. Unless you're planning on prone surfing, I also would not get a shorter mast. If anything, you would likely be better off with a 93cm. In Hawaii, easily 80-90% of the wingers consider that as the "go to" standard. The exception is riding 75-85cm if you ride consistently in shallow reef breaks or over 100cm if you're racing and doing a lot of down winding in open ocean.

4. Tails on Armstrong, the 180 was always my favorite. It was more stable than the 195 and much faster than the 232.

If I were in your shoes, I would start by finding someone you trust who knows about your options with FOne. I hope this helps a little.

I think this is great advice. been on Armstrong for 5 years...new HAs are very good, but 680 will be challenging, 780 is a great all round. 935 mast is the go for winging if depth not an issue and I prefer smaller tails, chopped 140 but I think this is personal preference and 180 as Oahu is saying will be more forgiving. I still own and use the old 1850 (chopped) great to learn tricks, or start parawinging. Super forgiving, gets up with no wind and you will be to jibe very quickly...my 2 cents

@martyj4 I got no problem with the wing size. The 5m is ok at my 175cm (5'9). Larger one would start dragging a bit in taxi. However I do not really go out if it's less than 12kn.

I honestly want to practice toeside and I need I should. However when I practice I'm not on the foil so I feel FOMO. Do you think it's critical to learn toeside first before getting into gybes?

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@Oahuwaterwalker These are great tips. If I had more time and money I'd definitely try out more. I know first hand how staying with one setup hand hinder progress as I had a wrong board when I started. I'm not joking when I say that after changing the board I made more progress in 2 session than a year with the old one. And the only thing that was wrong on the board was fixed mast position. So even small things can make huge impact.

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1. If your Fone mast is compatible with the newer Fone foils, there is ZERO reason to switch to Armstrong.

The FONE setup I have is not extensible. I got two options: Gravity and Phantom - that's it. Everything else if full replacement.

The water is fairly flat where I'm at. The way I approach gybe is that I'm breaking it down to fewest components.
For example I know I cannot do the wing switch + toeride + gybe - it's too much, so I want to do it step by step:
1. Complete a full gybe depowered first while staying on foil
2. Change the leg orientation by the end (not toeside)
3. Keep some power in the wing and switch hands correctly
4. Do toeside

This is the ideal progression. Right now the Gravity 1800 cannot keep me on the foil to be able to do number 1.
I plan to keep the wing powered for a bit longer after I start the gybe, but again, every time I have another component to worry about it becomes harder to do everything else.

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2. If you do switch to Armstrong, the newer HA definitely do not have twice the lift. Whoever is telling you that is mistaken and I'm sure there are others on this site who would agree

I did more searching, asking and talking to retailers. They think I should go 1080 for low wind and 880 for medium.

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3. Unless you're planning on prone surfing, I also would not get a shorter mast. If anything, you would likely be better off with a 93cm. In Hawaii, easily 80-90% of the wingers consider that as the "go to" standard. The exception is riding 75-85cm if you ride consistently in shallow reef breaks or over 100cm if you're racing and doing a lot of down winding in open ocean.

I'm good with the height!

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4. Tails on Armstrong, the 180 was always my favorite. It was more stable than the 195 and much faster than the 232.

I have Glide 220 tail that I got from a friend. It's stable and good for learning from what he says.

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@NikOnFoil You convinced me to try getting the 1480 first. I'm looking for it second hand.

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Shaping3263 said..
@martyj4 Do you think it's critical to learn toeside first before getting into gybes?

As a beginner-ish person who is reading for interest and not because I have any armstrong foils, its very hard to practice toeside without gybing first, because the easiest way to get to toeside is by gybing.

You can kind of practice toeside while taxiing (or while standing on the beach) but it's not quite the same and you may as well just start practicing gybes and then trying to figure out toeside riding once you get through the gybe.

Gwen's video on Damien LeRoy's youtube channel is very good for breaking down gybing into small steps. First, learn to glide with the wing flagged and touch down gently at the end before re-powering. Then, do the same thing but start to turn downwind. Keep pushing through until you can turn through the wind and you're starting to come back the other way. Then start worrying about swapping hands with the wing, then start trying to ride toeside.

Try switching feet first and gybing toeside

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Shaping3263 said..

I'm super stable on the foil in both directions - no problems there. Can do Ss and control pitch.
I cannot yet do a full gybe.
I mostly take too long, lose power on the foil and end up in Taxi.
Or, if I try to do it faster I lose balance.

I cannot do toeside yet either.

I'm ok at pumping. When there is wind I can pump myself up to foil. I do not have enough strength to pump myself up in
Right now I have a feeling that the foil is too slow for me. I spend a lot of arm strength just trying to keep the wing powered. It feels like I'm not picking up any speed no matter how much I try and I eventually have to depower.
I also feel like the foil doesn't have enough glide to power me through the gybe.

There is definitely a skill issue here as well, however I feel confident and keen to try another foil as I never had one.

I'm thinking of moving to Armstrong, but no idea where to go. I was gearing myself up for HS foils, but I see they changed their lineup.
Most forum topics say that the new HA line is amazing and suggest going there. However I don't know if these are good for me considering my skill.

People say that HA has a lot of lift, sometimes equivalent to 2x of typical beginner foils.
Because of that, HA680 seems like a good choice? I don't really know.
I also have no idea which tail.
TC60 fuselage seems like good default?

All of this sounds very familiar- I was here around 6 months ago. I weigh 70kg and learnt on an 1800cm2 foil, now ride HPS980 (but have gone back and forth between the two). I nail about 75% of my gybes now but still no expert. An 1800 foil might not glide far, but it will glide for a long time if trimmed correctly.

Changing gear might help but technique is definitely the problem.
If you are having to work hard to keep the wing powered, you aren't trimmed correctly.
If you aren't trimmed correctly, your glide will suck (and you will stall).

I suspect your ass is over the heel edge of the board, forcing you to angle and ride at an uphill angle of attack and compensate with the wing (this was what i was doing in natural but not goofy but i haven't seen you ride). Matt nuzzo said it best- "imagine there's a piece of coal between your ass cheeks and try turn it into a diamond". This should reduce the amount of wing pressure you need to foil.

Gwen le tutor has the 3 drills you need.

3 drills to learn the jibe - YouTube

Don't let that or me stop you buying new gear though, new gear is nice!

What do you mean by "trimmed"?

i plan to ask my partner to record me so I can review it slowly and see if I'm making any obvious mistakes.
thanks for the reply, I definitely agree with you. I had a good practice day yesterday. Even managed to complete one gybe correctly!

f-one is one of the most coveted foil brands out there today. Try the next foil up in their lineup. What exactly are you looking for in your next foil, winging, that f-one wont give you and another brand would. Im actually thinking of moving to f-one, it's definitely some of the best gear to start with and right now some of the best gear to be on.

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RAF142134 said..
f-one is one of the most coveted foil brands out there today. Try the next foil up in their lineup. What exactly are you looking for in your next foil, winging, that f-one wont give you and another brand would. Im actually thinking of moving to f-one, it's definitely some of the best gear to start with and right now some of the best gear to be on.

I totally agree with this. If I wasn't riding Mikeslab, I'd be riding FOne. They're some of the only foils that can keep up with the ML.

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Shaping3263 said..
What do you mean by "trimmed"?

i plan to ask my partner to record me so I can review it slowly and see if I'm making any obvious mistakes.
thanks for the reply, I definitely agree with you. I had a good practice day yesterday. Even managed to complete one gybe correctly!

Trim= perfect pitch control = angle of attack for maximum efficiency and glide = nose of the board is in just the right spot (up/down) for efficient flight/glide.

If you are working hard with your wing powered up on a foil that big, you might be constantly nose up and dragging. I figured out i was doing this on my good (natural) side but not on my bad (goofy side) after i learned to foot switch.

Learning to foot switch slowly is really good, because it forces you to dial in the balance point of your board. once you know this, you realise you can foil with your feet basically side by side, but this requires excellent pitch control/trim.

Once you find that balance point and can keep your weight over it, you can dramatically reduce how much power you need in your wing to foil, and you are very close to the optimum position for glide. you will still be slightly offset, because you need to counter the horizontal force of the wing.

when you glide, you need to move from slightly offset to dead centre (in left/right balance) and slightly forward/nose down from where you are powered up, because you have lost the force vector of the wing.

If you glide in perfect trim, you should glide for the max distance your foil allows before gently touching down on the water. If you stall, your pitch is too steep (nose up) for the speed you are going at.

Gwen le tutor (damien leroy videos) covers this brilliantly in his gybe and tack 3 drills videos. No one talks about this on the forum (i suspect they're all waay past this stage and have forgotten!)

Max glide= more time for gybing.

Ya Kook foil that is right. I think another problem the OP will have is that these thick slow early lift foils need to be powered up or they just stop really quickly, that is they dont actually hold much glide, (draggy) so when you gybe if you arent powered up all the time, which is hard at the transition point, you just come off foil or slow down and compromise balance. This is why people move to the HA foils (some are now AR 12!) because once powered they keep a lot of glide even when the power is off. In the end it's the same thing.

I started out winging with the 1800 Gravity FCT (I'm 85 kg) and learned how to jibe on that foil. I was able to do 5-hour sessions without getting completely exhausted. Eventually, the wing started to feel too slow, so I switched to the smaller 1280 Phantom wing. In my opinion, you might benefit from using a smaller wing (sail), or focusing on building up your stamina. Longer sessions really pay off-progress comes quickly with time on the water. If I were you, I wouldn't switch wings just yet. Stick with it until you're consistently nailing more than half of your jibes.

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Shaping3263 said..
@martyj4 I got no problem with the wing size. The 5m is ok at my 175cm (5'9). Larger one would start dragging a bit in taxi. However I do not really go out if it's less than 12kn.

I honestly want to practice toeside and I need I should. However when I practice I'm not on the foil so I feel FOMO. Do you think it's critical to learn toeside first before getting into gybes?

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@Oahuwaterwalker These are great tips. If I had more time and money I'd definitely try out more. I know first hand how staying with one setup hand hinder progress as I had a wrong board when I started. I'm not joking when I say that after changing the board I made more progress in 2 session than a year with the old one. And the only thing that was wrong on the board was fixed mast position. So even small things can make huge impact.

1. If your Fone mast is compatible with the newer Fone foils, there is ZERO reason to switch to Armstrong.

The FONE setup I have is not extensible. I got two options: Gravity and Phantom - that's it. Everything else if full replacement.

The water is fairly flat where I'm at. The way I approach gybe is that I'm breaking it down to fewest components.
For example I know I cannot do the wing switch + toeride + gybe - it's too much, so I want to do it step by step:
1. Complete a full gybe depowered first while staying on foil
2. Change the leg orientation by the end (not toeside)
3. Keep some power in the wing and switch hands correctly
4. Do toeside

This is the ideal progression. Right now the Gravity 1800 cannot keep me on the foil to be able to do number 1.
I plan to keep the wing powered for a bit longer after I start the gybe, but again, every time I have another component to worry about it becomes harder to do everything else.

2. If you do switch to Armstrong, the newer HA definitely do not have twice the lift. Whoever is telling you that is mistaken and I'm sure there are others on this site who would agree

I did more searching, asking and talking to retailers. They think I should go 1080 for low wind and 880 for medium.

3. Unless you're planning on prone surfing, I also would not get a shorter mast. If anything, you would likely be better off with a 93cm. In Hawaii, easily 80-90% of the wingers consider that as the "go to" standard. The exception is riding 75-85cm if you ride consistently in shallow reef breaks or over 100cm if you're racing and doing a lot of down winding in open ocean.

I'm good with the height!

4. Tails on Armstrong, the 180 was always my favorite. It was more stable than the 195 and much faster than the 232.

I have Glide 220 tail that I got from a friend. It's stable and good for learning from what he says.

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@NikOnFoil You convinced me to try getting the 1480 first. I'm looking for it second hand.

Shaping, I'm probably a bit of an exception. Came from a windsurfing background and every time I went into a foiling gybe, I would switch my feet dead downwind because it was decades of WS technique inground. I'd never get any gybes because switching feet when dead downwind on the transition upsets the foil too much. Couldn't break the habit. Only way I could overcome was to go in toeside before the transition. I learned TS by riding with feet really close together (around 20cm apart). As you move back foot to front, because your weight is closely centred around the balance point, it wont dip the nose too far before you quickly move front foot to back. If your feet are wide apart, the nose of the board will dip fast and heavily. Keep feet close. Learn in as smooth waters as possible. "Umbrella" the wing a bit as you perform the foot switch to float you. Once you're on toeside, try and keep things powered up as much as possible by heading off downwind a touch to improve the apparent wind and keep power in the wing.

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RAF142134 said..
Ya Kook foil that is right. I think another problem the OP will have is that these thick slow early lift foils need to be powered up or they just stop really quickly, that is they dont actually hold much glide, (draggy) so when you gybe if you arent powered up all the time, which is hard at the transition point, you just come off foil or slow down and compromise balance. This is why people move to the HA foils (some are now AR 12!) because once powered they keep a lot of glide even when the power is off. In the end it's the same thing.

This is a really good explanation. I've started keeping myself powered all the way until I'm downwind, but it's tricky as I start picking up speed as I transition downwind so more factors to think about. I'm definitely getting better and better.

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FilthyScent said..
I was able to do 5-hour sessions without getting completely exhausted. Eventually, the wing started to feel too slow, so I switched to the smaller 1280 Phantom wing. In my opinion, you might benefit from using a smaller wing (sail), or focusing on building up your stamina. Longer sessions really pay off-progress comes quickly with time on the water. If I were you, I wouldn't switch wings just yet. Stick with it until you're consistently nailing more than half of your jibes.

I cannot do 5h session today. I get tired about 1-1.5h into it. Mostly my forearms from holding the wing. I got a 4m wing as well yesterday to try it. For the conditions I'm in the 5m + 1800 foil is always instantly lifting me on the foil which might mean that I have way too much power.