I currently, have Armstrong foils but tried out an F-one Seven Seas kit (1400) with a long fuselage and 85cm mast and was impressed with the speed and glide. I am normally on a Armstrong 1550V2 wing, HS232 tail on a 75cm mast. The next logical step would be to try one of the new Armstrong masts and MA foils - what would be compatible sizes? Has anyone ridden on both and can provide some insights as to how they compare? A swap to F-one would be a lot more expensive than 'upgrading' to the new Armstrong gear but it did ride well.

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Zasby said..
I currently, have Armstrong foils but tried out an F-one Seven Seas kit (1400) with a long fuselage and 85cm mast and was impressed with the speed and glide. I am normally on a Armstrong 1550V2 wing, HS232 tail on a 75cm mast. The next logical step would be to try one of the new Armstrong masts and MA foils - what would be compatible sizes? Has anyone ridden on both and can provide some insights as to how they compare? A swap to F-one would be a lot more expensive than 'upgrading' to the new Armstrong gear but it did ride well.

If you like outright speed and glide it's hard to go past the Armstrong HA wings but not the easiest to ride, the MAs sound like a significant step up in performance from the previous HS series like the 1550V2. If you changed your tail from a 232 to a 195 you would also notice a decent improvement in speed and glide.

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Zasby said..A swap to F-one would be a lot more expensive than 'upgrading' to the new Armstrong gear but it did ride well.

Not much more as you need a new mast, fuse, front wing and tail. Oh it is the same.

I ride 1550 V2 only and gradually shimmed 232 to 2 red shims which improved glide

Supposedly the MA1225 is similar in lift to the 1550V2. If your fuse is the A+, you would just be upgrading the front wing and mast (still expensive) and possibly the tail wing.
if you search Oceanbound on YouTube, one of his recent vids is about the F-ones he was demoing (he's a longtime Armstrong rider).

Supposedly the MA1225 is similar in lift to the 1550V2. If your fuse is the A+, you would just be upgrading the front wing and mast (still expensive) and possibly the tail wing.
if you search Oceanbound on YouTube, one of his recent vids is about the F-ones he was demoing (he's a longtime Armstrong rider).

That 7seas with there carbon mast is just an really really good combo. If you can afford it: switch.I rode the 7seas 1200 and have owned most of the SAB line up, and have on an Cedrus the Cabrinha Hseries 1200/1000/800 and Kujira1210 and The 7seas with there carbon mast was outright faster, better glide and feeling pretty awesome.
I tried the 7seas also on an Cedrus a few days later, and that is noticable dragier as the Fone mast.

Man there are sooo many good options out there now. The axis, go foil, new sab stuff (which I've heard glowing personal accounts of) the north range . all so good. The list goes on


the cheapest option for extra glide is adding the 195 tail and of course shimming - but shimming creates its own problem with less front foot pressure a pitch control .


that being said I think the HS line has been truly left in the dust behind what other companies are offering if you are ready for the next stage. The MA definitely is the last nail in the coffin for the HS I think for riders who as I say are ready. Ride with crew who have just added the 1225 in place of the 1550 on the A plus mast and are truly stoked. (Plus the 195 tail).

what is your weight is probably the most important question. Over 90kg then you will probably need the new mast. Under . I'm not so sure it is completely necessary. If under 90, the cheapest option is the 1225 and the HA 195 tail. If over 90 I'd be trying to demo all the brands because the changeover will be just as expensive either which way you go.


one foil I will not get on (because ignorance is bliss) is the cab foils. Especially if they improve their mast which is supposedly coming out soon. I'm just putting my fingers in my ears and singing loudly with the cab foils

Yes , if CAB come out with a decent mast and changeable tail options ,I would be looking hard at them too.
They are a bit dull compared to Army HAs but sometimes a little dull can be better overall..

Changing brands is a big decision and one that only you can make. I started on Armstrong, then by demoing changed to Axis HPS 980 from 1500V2. I bought a Cedrus mast and also a Lift adapter and tried a Lift 170. I was riding mainly the ART 899, 880 and 980s at this time. I managed to demo the F one 7 Seas 1200 and that convinced me to change brands.

In my limited opinion the Fone gear is well designed, easy to ride and excellent performance. Also changing between foils each is familiar from Phantoms, to Eagles to 7 Seas. I have a 85cm F One hm carbon mast and a Cedrus. The Cedrus feels more locked in than the F One.

Thanks for your responses. I am sitting at 90kg, so yes a new Armstrong mast would be beneficial. The advantage of the Armstrong is that I can trade in my gear at the shop. I can't do that if I go for the F-One - quicker and easier. Would probably need to get the aluminum F-one mast too (carbon mast looks good but is pricey). I do like a bit of speed and the F-one Seven Seas was fast. I recognise it's probably not their purpose but are the MA foils still quick?

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Zasby said..
Thanks for your responses. I am sitting at 90kg, so yes a new Armstrong mast would be beneficial. The advantage of the Armstrong is that I can trade in my gear at the shop. I can't do that if I go for the F-One - quicker and easier. Would probably need to get the aluminum F-one mast too (carbon mast looks good but is pricey). I do like a bit of speed and the F-one Seven Seas was fast. I recognise it's probably not their purpose but are the MA foils still quick?

Yeh quicker than the HS but not as quick as the HA. Acceleration I'm talking about off the mark. Top speed is very similar. In fact I'm feeling I can quicker on the MA because of it's pronounced stability.

my mate is 90kg and only changed to the 1225 MA. Works well for him. Recon it's near the 95/100kg mark you may have issues.


you could consider just changing to a 1225 for now and the 195 tail (which is what he did as well to replace the 232).

Man, Eppo with the solid advice. Can't agree more with what he's said.

Yeah +1 to those comments Eppo.

That's solid advice you're giving right there!
Love the fact that you're part of Armies army but still open minded enough to acknowledge other decent setups/brands.
Constructive comments - how refreshing in the day of social media etc!

And this is coming from me who is being drawn from my quiver of HA Armie foils to axis ART'S...don't judge me!??

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longboard said..
Yeah +1 to those comments Eppo.

That's solid advice you're giving right there!
Love the fact that you're part of Armies army but still open minded enough to acknowledge other decent setups/brands.
Constructive comments - how refreshing in the day of social media etc!

And this is coming from me who is being drawn from my quiver of HA Armie foils to axis ART'S...don't judge me!??

Ah ya not the only one. I've ridden heaps with a very good local rider on the axis art stuff now. It's bloody good gear.

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kobo said..
Yes , if CAB come out with a decent mast and changeable tail options ,I would be looking hard at them too.
They are a bit dull compared to Army HAs but sometimes a little dull can be better overall..

Same same with the MA foils. "Duller" but arguably more fun.

To be honest I was kinda hoping Army was going to come out with a HA similar to the CAB ,not a MA series but he's obviously decided to start at the beginning and redo CF ,MA and lastly the HA series. I don't mind waiting as I'm continually improving on the current HAs all the time and have amazing rides on them.It would be nice to have a lower stall speed but it's becoming less of a problem the more I ride nowadays..As you say eppo probs better of investing in the new mast , looking forward to some prone reviews of the 725/925/1125 on the new 795 mast...wish they had the old washer system though.

Must admit what I have seen from the MA foils in action I am underwhelmed.

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Zasby said..
Thanks for your responses. I am sitting at 90kg, so yes a new Armstrong mast would be beneficial. The advantage of the Armstrong is that I can trade in my gear at the shop. I can't do that if I go for the F-One - quicker and easier. Would probably need to get the aluminum F-one mast too (carbon mast looks good but is pricey). I do like a bit of speed and the F-one Seven Seas was fast. I recognise it's probably not their purpose but are the MA foils still quick?

At 90kg I would probably consider staying Armie or finding a brand with solid connections between components. F-one titan connection is not very titan and bolts get loose when riding them hard. It's a shame because everything else is so rock solid

Having said this , every brand has unicorn setups, just need to collect them with time and use them where they work the best

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mindhoc said..

Zasby said..
Thanks for your responses. I am sitting at 90kg, so yes a new Armstrong mast would be beneficial. The advantage of the Armstrong is that I can trade in my gear at the shop. I can't do that if I go for the F-One - quicker and easier. Would probably need to get the aluminum F-one mast too (carbon mast looks good but is pricey). I do like a bit of speed and the F-one Seven Seas was fast. I recognise it's probably not their purpose but are the MA foils still quick?

At 90kg I would probably consider staying Armie or finding a brand with solid connections between components. F-one titan connection is not very titan and bolts get loose when riding them hard. It's a shame because everything else is so rock solid

Having said this , every brand has unicorn setups, just need to collect them with time and use them where they work the best

Good points. Happy I moved to GoFoil.

Never had any issues with F One connections.

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kobo said..
To be honest I was kinda hoping Army was going to come out with a HA similar to the CAB ,not a MA series but he's obviously decided to start at the beginning and redo CF ,MA and lastly the HA series. I don't mind waiting as I'm continually improving on the current HAs all the time and have amazing rides on them.It would be nice to have a lower stall speed but it's becoming less of a problem the more I ride nowadays..As you say eppo probs better of investing in the new mast , looking forward to some prone reviews of the 725/925/1125 on the new 795 mast...wish they had the old washer system though.

Well put. I'm in the same boat as you.

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mindhoc said..

At 90kg I would probably consider staying Armie or finding a brand with solid connections between components. F-one titan connection is not very titan and bolts get loose when riding them hard. It's a shame because everything else is so rock solid

Having said this , every brand has unicorn setups, just need to collect them with time and use them where they work the best

WHAT, Army strong connection? Never had that issue with f-one and axis and pryde, maybe I don't ride them hard enough. Every 2-3 days or riding I do check bolts and usually nothing to report. On Axis the top plate was needing a 1/4 rotation every 3-4 days.Army masts were very wobbly, even with the A+ system.Going from f-one and more from axis to army, I was feeling a lot of movement, creating lost of control over the wing.I'm sure that was also a reason why so many liked their chopped wings. Not saying army is not good, they got some nice front wing..but their system was the bottle neck. Assuming their new mast is great.

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NordRoi said..

mindhoc said..

At 90kg I would probably consider staying Armie or finding a brand with solid connections between components. F-one titan connection is not very titan and bolts get loose when riding them hard. It's a shame because everything else is so rock solid

Having said this , every brand has unicorn setups, just need to collect them with time and use them where they work the best

WHAT, Army strong connection? Never had that issue with f-one and axis and pryde, maybe I don't ride them hard enough. Every 2-3 days or riding I do check bolts and usually nothing to report. On Axis the top plate was needing a 1/4 rotation every 3-4 days.Army masts were very wobbly, even with the A+ system.Going from f-one and more from axis to army, I was feeling a lot of movement, creating lost of control over the wing.I'm sure that was also a reason why so many liked their chopped wings. Not saying army is not good, they got some nice front wing..but their system was the bottle neck. Assuming their new mast is great.

Lol, good point , I'm assuming Armstrong has a strong connection but I have never ridden it. As for f-one , I almost lost my phantom 1780 twice and the bolts would get loose after every session. I also have a 1280 where it does happen but it can handle 2 sessions. I do know of 3 cases of people loosing the whole plane, one of them was a jumper.
I have had Sab front wing bolts coming loose too while riding but it has been on long HA wings and during the second session if I don't tighten them up

my axis story stopped after snapping 2 fuses. But then they upgraded their fuse design and I believe that is a problem from the past

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mindhoc said..

NordRoi said..

mindhoc said..

At 90kg I would probably consider staying Armie or finding a brand with solid connections between components. F-one titan connection is not very titan and bolts get loose when riding them hard. It's a shame because everything else is so rock solid

Having said this , every brand has unicorn setups, just need to collect them with time and use them where they work the best

WHAT, Army strong connection? Never had that issue with f-one and axis and pryde, maybe I don't ride them hard enough. Every 2-3 days or riding I do check bolts and usually nothing to report. On Axis the top plate was needing a 1/4 rotation every 3-4 days.Army masts were very wobbly, even with the A+ system.Going from f-one and more from axis to army, I was feeling a lot of movement, creating lost of control over the wing.I'm sure that was also a reason why so many liked their chopped wings. Not saying army is not good, they got some nice front wing..but their system was the bottle neck. Assuming their new mast is great.

Lol, good point , I'm assuming Armstrong has a strong connection but I have never ridden it. As for f-one , I almost lost my phantom 1780 twice and the bolts would get loose after every session. I also have a 1280 where it does happen but it can handle 2 sessions. I do know of 3 cases of people loosing the whole plane, one of them was a jumper.
I have had Sab front wing bolts coming loose too while riding but it has been on long HA wings and during the second session if I don't tighten them up

my axis story stopped after snapping 2 fuses. But then they upgraded their fuse design and I believe that is a problem from the past

Never had issues with the F-one connection my self. Daily 5 hour sessions, consistently bottom feeding my foil and I'm not even using TefGel.

Lots of screws. GoFoil has 2

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I just jumped from Gofoil to Armstrong. The gofoil front screw gets loose all the time with big wings, the front wing connection system got loose after a couple of months and became a pain when changing wings, plus 3 masts broken in the front fuselage in 2 years.

That said, Armstrong feels a lot more flexible to ride.


hilly said..
Lots of screws. GoFoil has 2

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hilly said..
Lots of screws. GoFoil has 2

Not like for like. That's the alloy setup after all and comparative to market, not too dissimilar.

Carbon mast is 3 screws.

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Pacoo said..The gofoil front screw gets loose all the time with big wings,

Never had that and it does not matter as the screw is just to hold it in place on the taper like armie. Never had an issue with armie stuff either.

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kobo said..
To be honest I was kinda hoping Army was going to come out with a HA similar to the CAB ,not a MA series but he's obviously decided to start at the beginning and redo CF ,MA and lastly the HA series.

I think this sums it up well. Trying to satisfy to many different interests away from my interest which is swell riding.

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hilly said..

Pacoo said..The gofoil front screw gets loose all the time with big wings,

Never had that and it does not matter as the screw is just to hold it in place on the taper like armie. Never had an issue with armie stuff either.

That was an issue for me during long sessions, or downwinds, mainly on the big wings like GL240 and GT2200.
In any case, there is no bad feelings with gofoil, I'm still keeping my 26 mast and the RS1000. Gofoil is great equipment, but prices are getting crazy in Europe (1000 ? for a RS850). I was hopping for them to resolve the problem with the mast fuselage connection but there have been no actions. There is also room for improvement in the front wing fitting. I may go back if they get their s**t together.