Keen to try a sinker board, what are your opinions on volume, lengths and widths of boards. Im at 85kgs.
Cheers

My prone/sinker board is 4'6 x 21 x 40L

I weigh 80kgs so exactly half my weight. Straps make it a heap easier to stabilize and start and I can get up in anything over about 17 knots. I much prefer to us this board over anything else!

ive tried my last prone board that was 50L and it was too corky to sink properly but it didn't have straps and I have progressed a lot since then.
keen to see what others are doing. Not many people are winging on their prones in my area.

session#3 on my 'big air micro board project'. So far, #1 no straps no chance, #2 one strap managed natural foot out .. managed to foil out paddled back to shore, #3 using front V strap .. on goofy due to wind, again managed to foil out but was pushed to shore trying to get back in. Can't waiting for right conditions to try #4 using the wing leash 1 foot underwater technique mentioned

So far, been kneeling with board underwater and slowly shifting foot into front strap while balancing with the wing in hand .. hard work

36L 4'6" x 20" board, 66kg rider 'wet' weight hhh

Had Grant of Outlaw Surf Repairs down at Bibra Lake install a Chinook 5 hole insert block into center of board .. fantastic job and solid so far

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wicka said..
My prone/sinker board is 4'6 x 21 x 40L

I weigh 80kgs so exactly half my weight. Straps make it a heap easier to stabilize and start and I can get up in anything over about 17 knots. I much prefer to us this board over anything else!

ive tried my last prone board that was 50L and it was too corky to sink properly but it didn't have straps and I have progressed a lot since then.
keen to see what others are doing. Not many people are winging on their prones in my area.

yes also wondering what the magic volume vs weight formula is. where I live and sail mostly people are on non-sinkers. I'm about 85kg and have ridden a 60l. suspect it's in that weird area where it's still corky enough to knee start but too corky to sink start. Needs wind to come to the surface... the day I tried it I was on a 3.3 lightly powered and when slogging i was waist deep. slogging that deep was surprisingly stable and arguably easier than slogging my 75l in the same amount of wind which sinks to my knees. So maybe I need to try something around 40l w/ straps. I've proned once on a 50l board and it was kinda fun... so maybe worth investing in a prone board that can perform double duty.

Yeh, but even my son who is only 55kg, can sink start my 40l prone ... only did it once to show me how useless I was and it wasn't the boards fault...lol. Don't know the answer. My next board coming soon will be under half my weight so that should be interesting....73k/74kg on a 34l.... but yeh you could say it's still half.

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eppo said..
Yeh, but even my son who is only 55kg, can sink start my 40l prone ... only did it once to show me how useless I was and it wasn't the boards fault...lol. Don't know the answer. My next board coming soon will be under half my weight so that should be interesting....73k/74kg on a 34l.... but yeh you could say it's still half.

could be either it's a sinker e.g. <30% i.e. a 25L for a 80kg rider or it's a floater i.e. >70% i.e. 60L for same 80kg rider? will try the Cadiz sit and move front foot in + the 1 foot wing leash underwater technique next session HHH

Let us how how the Cadiz method goes. I have my doubts on that one but will also try it when's it bloody warmer.

I'm taking delivery of a 27L 4' Armstrong FG board tomorrow to work double duty prone and sinker starting. I'm 65KGs so this is right at that -40L area, or 40% of my KGs.

I never tried winging my old 34L prone board, which was corky enough that I imagine that it would have been tiring to try and sinker start, so I'm hoping this new board is the magic one.

There must be a magic percentage of body weight that balances ease of sinking and ease of getting to the surface. This thread is a good one for people to share their findings!

I'm 75kg, just recently been using my new 57L board, and my 39L prone board. Both are 4'7/4'8 ish. knee starting on both. the39L prone board is a little too floaty to start by sinking it and standing on it. but knee starting it isn't too bad. In fact if the wind is good, I think it is easier to balance on knees than the 57L board. I'm looking to get a new prone board, so I'm gonna try borrow a few different boards from friends to find what the max volume is that I can easily sink and stand on.

I also wonder how much an effect width of board has. 2 boards same length and volume, but different widths, would the wider board be less stable when sunk?

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sunsetsailboards said..
yes also wondering what the magic volume vs weight formula is. where I live and sail mostly people are on non-sinkers. ....

Same....there's a few people locally who have tried the sinker route, got frustrated, and reverted back to knee-start volume. I suspect that's from a combination of factors: cold water, variable wind, and a majority of riders non-surfers, so not really chasing the prone surf foil thing anyway. Plus I suspect an older demographic than many places, the young bucks are mid 30s, the average is probably in the low 50s. A bunch of old kooks!

In winging, the prone / knee-start divide seems similar to the windsurf evolution of shortboards and waterstarting. Those who can, prefer the more nimble small boards. And those who can't, still try to chase the cool kids, but fail at it mostly and are grumpy and maybe quit. From what I observed, the shortboard revolution kinda killed local windsurfing, until foils made light wind windsurfing fun again. So....will winging go a similar direction?

For me, I have prone surfboards and also kite foil boards, and I may give it a shot again ... sure would be cool to be pumping around on my 15L kite board. But I dread the learning curve ... and also dread sink-paddling back a 15L board from a km out when the wind died off and I can't get it up again to get back to shore.

Since getting confident at starting my prone board 4'6 x 21 x 40L I can't stand going back to riding my 5'0 x 25 x 80L, and that's still considered a smaller board. It's the same feeling as when you first downsize from a learning board.
when up and on foil everything is so much better. Way more maneuverable, you can really lay it over and not touch the sides of the rails. Jumping is better. My prone is only 3.5kgs. So almost half the weight. Going up wind is better as the wind doesn't get under the board and slow you down or push you back. The only downfall is the starts. At the moment I'm confident in anything over 17 knots. Speaking to other lighter guys online they can get going in 12-13knots but at 80kgs I feel like I would need a 10m wing to pull me out of the water and those wind speeds ????

Would be great to get some advice off people that are a little heavier that are starting their boards half their weight in lighter winds.

Next step for me if I'm not successful is to downsize my larger board to be around 4'6 x 22 x 60L and use that when it gets under 15knots. I just don't want to take the gamble and find it too corky and have a horrible time.

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bigmtn said..
I'm 75kg, just recently been using my new 57L board, and my 39L prone board. Both are 4'7/4'8 ish. knee starting on both. the39L prone board is a little too floaty to start by sinking it and standing on it. but knee starting it isn't too bad. In fact if the wind is good, I think it is easier to balance on knees than the 57L board. I'm looking to get a new prone board, so I'm gonna try borrow a few different boards from friends to find what the max volume is that I can easily sink and stand on.

I also wonder how much an effect width of board has. 2 boards same length and volume, but different widths, would the wider board be less stable when sunk?

Do you surf or prone ? Because I have been sinking an40/41 litre at about your weight and while it took a while it's quite doable. To me it's just a regular duck dive with the feet then coming through as the added bit. Must admit sitting there in the lineup proning in a sink start position did help, plus years of surfing in general. I'm also thinking length has an impact. Shorter and more square rails / shape would be better than my old Amos board which is super pointy / that is there is a fair bit up front that is narrow and unnecessary. So there's volume under the water creating resistance / swing water weight if you like relative to your foot positions.

my thinking, albeit maybe overly optimistic is if the wind is marginal then I will just kite foil. Anything less than that go and do something else. Anything under 12/13 knots I find thoroughly boring anyhow.

like anything though surely our techniques will get better for getting going in lower winds. Plus the type of wing surely has an impact . Want a nice rigid frame - even so I'd say eventually there will be specialised prone winging wings even.

paddling from afar . I can do that just as readily on my prone board as I can on a higher volume board anyhow. But yeh it won't be fun. Got the luxury of WA winds that my eastern states brother don't I suppose.
by the way I'm 48 so no excuses you grandpas my 13 yr old son keeps Me on my toes.


bottom line is we all want to be on the smallest board possible (I don't care what rationale anyone uses to justify a counter to this - and I've read some lame justification), but we have to be practical / sensible as well.
Anyhow interesting space to watch and some great discussion on it.

Appreciate the input folks. It really seems hit and miss but I guess the common theme seems to be around half your body weight.

At 85kgs I would assume something around 40 L would seem ok?

Unfortunately there are no boards around our area to demo and I would hate to purchase a board to find out it is not the ideal size.

Yeh even 38ish would be okay. Man I watched a guy around probably 75kg sink start a 27L board !!

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Capt.Gumby said..
Appreciate the input folks. It really seems hit and miss but I guess the common theme seems to be around half your body weight.

At 85kgs I would assume something around 40 L would seem ok?

Unfortunately there are no boards around our area to demo and I would hate to purchase a board to find out it is not the ideal size.

Here's a 76 kg beginner/intermediate stepping down to a 40L video. His dreams seemed dashed.

Why is he trying to knee start that board. ? And once up he was struggling to go upwind on a 1050. which means his basic skills are pretty average - it shouldn't matter one bit once up and riding - Infact he should be able to point higher if anything. Yeh I'm not so sure this a great example
to watch people. Amusing at best.

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eppo said..
Why is he trying to knee start that board. ? And once up he was struggling to go upwind on a 1050. which means his basic skills are pretty average - it shouldn't matter one bit once up and riding - Infact he should be able to point higher if anything. Yeh I'm not so sure this a great example
to watch people. Amusing at best.

Yeah, I had those same thoughts.

Yeah, odd about the 1050 not going upwind. If you're even medium powered, that foil rips upwind just fine. Still, good to see others' experiences trying the low volume route. Hoping to finally get my 38L going next trip to a warm water venue soon. Summer is going to be over here in Canada before we know it and the trying in cold/air water will be tough to get motivated for. In the mean time, riding a board in volume slightly under my weight in kilos has allowed me to learn different transitions much more easily and get foils more dialled in rather than struggling.

What is using a board 10 liters below body weight in kg like as far as the start? Are you able to do the standard kneeling start? I'm guessing the board and foil barely floats you.

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emmafoils said..
What is using a board 10 liters below body weight in kg like as far as the start? Are you able to do the standard kneeling start? I'm guessing the board and foil barely floats you.

My -5L floats me just fine so long as there is an iota of wind in my wing. If it goes slack, I sink to my knees then level off around above ankle. That's on a 1050 wing. Bigger wing more float.

Hey Crew, great discussion.

I have a 54L prone 5'3 Sunova Pilot and at my 85kg was surprised it wasn't that hard to knee start in good consistent 15+ knot winds.. I think a bit lighter might even be possible. What surprised me though was once up I thought I don't need that much board out front.

i have a 4'5 34L armie FG board on order that I am hoping to use for 18+knot wind days to sick. It was suggested to me (Larry Foiler said this is what he founds works) to go half my body weight and then add 10% for a comfy sinker start. That would be roughly 46L. I have gone a bit lighter (hopefully not a mistake) as I have been told armie boards ride like they have a bit more volume and my Armie foil I think adds a bit of float. Also having my 54L I wanted something to really challenge me. Let's hope it's not too much of a challenge but will still be a good prone and dock start board (yet to master that one).

Yeh the dock starts still do my head in. But i bet you dont have a son pumping around you, catching waves 2-300m put then riding around the dock - or catching the wake of boats 100s and f metres down then pump back up on the opposite travelling boat then sit next to you on the dock . whilst youve failed yet again 3 times whilst hes been pumping.
.

No son pumpin around me Eppo but the young ones do make it look easy. Great to push us older ones as we are all still young at heart.
the dock starts are a multi tasking wonder so will see how I go. Definitely will take more than three attempts.
As long as we catch good rides, fly and enjoy the ocean then it's a good session.

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emmafoils said..
What is using a board 10 liters below body weight in kg like as far as the start? Are you able to do the standard kneeling start? I'm guessing the board and foil barely floats you.

I'm 85kg and ride a 75l Fanatic Sky Wing as my daily driver. Hardest adjustment was the short length... was more likely to nose dive while standing up. You find subtle technique changes to setup to adjust for the tippier board in swell, but overall I wouldn't say it's that much harder than my 95l Sky Wing. That said, once I got on the 75l, I never got back on the 95l. Only one day or two days did I think the extra volume would benefit me when the wind was really light. YMMV.

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sunsetsailboards said..

emmafoils said..
What is using a board 10 liters below body weight in kg like as far as the start? Are you able to do the standard kneeling start? I'm guessing the board and foil barely floats you.

I'm 85kg and ride a 75l Fanatic Sky Wing as my daily driver. Hardest adjustment was the short length... was more likely to nose dive while standing up. You find subtle technique changes to setup to adjust for the tippier board in swell, but overall I wouldn't say it's that much harder than my 95l Sky Wing. That said, once I got on the 75l, I never got back on the 95l. Only one day or two days did I think the extra volume would benefit me when the wind was really light. YMMV.

Do you start the same way on 75l as on the 95l one?