I think I'll give the Parawing a try, I'm 95kgs, experienced winger, 88ltr Armstrong FG board. I really want to try DWing and think this may be a good way to do it.

I've heard lots on 'bridle' set ups and wing sizes and that there are different brands. Any recommendations for me in terms of size and brand/configuration, etc?

DC

Wait a month, There will be new launches.

Select to expand quote

Dcharlton said..
I think I'll give the Parawing a try, I'm 95kgs, experienced winger, 88ltr Armstrong FG board. I really want to try DWing and think this may be a good way to do it.

I've heard lots on 'bridle' set ups and wing sizes and that there are different brands. Any recommendations for me in terms of size and brand/configuration, etc?

DC

There's only currently the BRM parawing and the five-O windsports pocket wing available. Although I wouldn't really count the pocket wing as it doesn't properly go upwind so that makes the only real option the BRM parawing.
I am also keen on the parawing thing but might give it some time to see what other options become available. Seeing protos from gong and ensis. On social media, north is confirmed to be bringing one out. I am excited for the potential but it's early days yet.

I have the 4m parawing and am 93kg. I use it with a 110L DW board, 1080HA and so far need 15 knots minimum to get it going reliably. New bridle arrangement is a big improvement, especially upwind (similar to wing now). Bit of a learning curve involved!

Select to expand quote

Dcharlton said..
I think I'll give the Parawing a try, I'm 95kgs, experienced winger, 88ltr Armstrong FG board. I really want to try DWing and think this may be a good way to do it.

I've heard lots on 'bridle' set ups and wing sizes and that there are different brands. Any recommendations for me in terms of size and brand/configuration, etc?

DC

Wait a while, North and Ozone are coming out with theirs soon-ish

Select to expand quote

frequentfaller said..
Wait a month, There will be new launches.

Just for an update, I noticed Ensis have just released their parawing

?si=N901vLfuVMHM91xA

www.reactivewatersports.co.uk/product-page/ensis-3m-roger-parawing

Well that's disappointing. Same price range as the BRM and only a 3m at this time. Hopefully this was just a retailer getting ahead of the Friday launch with partial information

Select to expand quote

Youngbreezy said..

Dcharlton said..
I think I'll give the Parawing a try, I'm 95kgs, experienced winger, 88ltr Armstrong FG board. I really want to try DWing and think this may be a good way to do it.

I've heard lots on 'bridle' set ups and wing sizes and that there are different brands. Any recommendations for me in terms of size and brand/configuration, etc?

DC

There's only currently the BRM parawing and the five-O windsports pocket wing available. Although I wouldn't really count the pocket wing as it doesn't properly go upwind so that makes the only real option the BRM parawing.
I am also keen on the parawing thing but might give it some time to see what other options become available. Seeing protos from gong and ensis. On social media, north is confirmed to be bringing one out. I am excited for the potential but it's early days yet.

Soon there'll probably be different parawing disciplines. Am I the only one that is nog interested in a new toy that goes upwind? A wing with a simple line configuration and strong downwind pull is all I'd want.

Select to expand quote

Dcharlton said..
I think I'll give the Parawing a try, I'm 95kgs, experienced winger, 88ltr Armstrong FG board. I really want to try DWing and think this may be a good way to do it.

I've heard lots on 'bridle' set ups and wing sizes and that there are different brands. Any recommendations for me in terms of size and brand/configuration, etc?

DC

Be ready for a bit of frustration as learning curve is a little tricky personally been winging from the start of winging and longtime kiter as well,the hard part is the parawing handling needs a lot to be desired very low aspect and the parawing window is tight not enough wind really frustrating then bit too much you get overpowered quick without a harness,hopefully next gen will handle better and get a few improvements personally I have the 5.1m at 100 kgs+ bit pricy for what they are too.I ride mine with a DW style board helps get on foil quicker

I don't expect many alternatives to BRM for a while. It takes time to develop a product like this. To really get it right. Lots of testing and retesting trying lots of things. I don't think it's that easy. And each size needs to be fully tested to come up with a full quiver, to iron out the minor variations.

Greg is extraordinarily good at doing this, after years of doing this day-in and day-out. Very methodical and meticulous and with a very refined sense of what he's looking for and what sort of minor adjustment might iterate in the right direction. I don't think there is anyone better than him at this.

Secondly, he's entirely focused on it. The kite and wing design companies have designers who are working across product lines. They have to get a set of quivers of kites wings etc out every year. This is their main bread and butter, they can't abandon it to go all in on a niche product.

Thirdly, there is no better place to do this R&D than Maui. The place is a wind-machine, wind all year round for most of the day. And warm water and pleasant temperatures. That's what you need to really dial stuff in. Anyone doing their R&D from there is going to have a big advantage, and that's why so many people do. You don't have to wait a week for the next windy day to try something out, by which time you had forgotten what you've tested against.There's only a few places on earth with conditions as suitable, and they may not have the infrastructure. E.g. it may be difficult or expensive to get samples or prototypes sent over.

It's actually amazing that Greg managed to bring this to market without any leaked pics or videos beforehand. That does speak of the respect that the local riders have of designers doing R&D and protecting that. It would be much harder to keep development efforts a secret elsewhere. And by now, peoples eyes are peeled for it, so if anyone does it, it will get seen and posted. So there probably isn't that much of it happening. Lots of homebaked foil kite mods but not that much serious development.It also means also that just about any other manufacturer will only have started development after the BRM wing came out.

Anyone who goes to the effort of bringing such a product to market is going to want to get rewarded for their efforts. So pricing may come in cheaper than BRM, but not by that much, as we are already seeing with Ensis. Otherwise it's just not worth bothering. Gong of course will come in a lot cheaper, but they typically do. But they have pursued a different concept really.

By the time the alternatives do arrive, after a year or so, you can probably expect a V2 from BRM. In fact I'd say he's probably closer to a V2 than just about anyone else is to a V1. But he won't bring it out unless it's a step change. His moat on this one is bigger than people realise.If there are performance improvements to be be had, he's best positioned to take advantage.

For where we are now, the BRM parawing is truly amazing. It really is as good as you could expect. With the bridle mod it pulls upwind very well and is nice to fly. Of course it's constrained by its physical limitations. There's no way you can expect a wing with no solid physical structure to compare with one that does for low end. Or with a kite on long lines that can be flown through the air to generate power.

Anyway the long and short of it for the OP (sorry for the ramble) is you have the urge to try out parawinging (which of course you do) and you can afford it, just go get one. It's something new, a new learning curve, a challenge with big rewards to be had. Start with one size. Whatever regular wing size you will be well powered in your good wind days. So if you frequently get 20 knots and you are well powered with a 4m wing in that wind, get the 4. For most people in most places that will be the 4 or the 5.1. If you're in a very windy place like Cape Town where I am, a 2.9 (which is often too big). Initially it won't replace winging completely. It has a narrower range, so you'll still need your wings. I have a 2.9, it has the top end of my 3 wing and the bottom end of my 2.2 (also BRMs). It works well when I'm adequately powered on my 2.2 and fully powered on my 3. Over time I should be able to increase the range in both directions with more skill. You should be good with your armstrong FG board. If you have a DW board great, gets going easy. I think a mid length may be the sweet spot, I've got a 6'5" x 18" x 75L (for my ~73kg) on order.

Select to expand quote

StephenZ said..
I don't expect many alternatives to BRM for a while. It takes time to develop a product like this. To really get it right. Lots of testing and retesting trying lots of things. I don't think it's that easy. And each size needs to be fully tested to come up with a full quiver, to iron out the minor variations.

Greg is extraordinarily good at doing this, after years of doing this day-in and day-out. Very methodical and meticulous and with a very refined sense of what he's looking for and what sort of minor adjustment might iterate in the right direction. I don't think there is anyone better than him at this.

Secondly, he's entirely focused on it. The kite and wing design companies have designers who are working across product lines. They have to get a set of quivers of kites wings etc out every year. This is their main bread and butter, they can't abandon it to go all in on a niche product.

Thirdly, there is no better place to do this R&D than Maui. The place is a wind-machine, wind all year round for most of the day. And warm water and pleasant temperatures. That's what you need to really dial stuff in. Anyone doing their R&D from there is going to have a big advantage, and that's why so many people do. You don't have to wait a week for the next windy day to try something out, by which time you had forgotten what you've tested against.There's only a few places on earth with conditions as suitable, and they may not have the infrastructure. E.g. it may be difficult or expensive to get samples or prototypes sent over.

It's actually amazing that Greg managed to bring this to market without any leaked pics or videos beforehand. That does speak of the respect that the local riders have of designers doing R&D and protecting that. It would be much harder to keep development efforts a secret elsewhere. And by now, peoples eyes are peeled for it, so if anyone does it, it will get seen and posted. So there probably isn't that much of it happening. Lots of homebaked foil kite mods but not that much serious development.It also means also that just about any other manufacturer will only have started development after the BRM wing came out.

Anyone who goes to the effort of bringing such a product to market is going to want to get rewarded for their efforts. So pricing may come in cheaper than BRM, but not by that much, as we are already seeing with Ensis. Otherwise it's just not worth bothering. Gong of course will come in a lot cheaper, but they typically do. But they have pursued a different concept really.

By the time the alternatives do arrive, after a year or so, you can probably expect a V2 from BRM. In fact I'd say he's probably closer to a V2 than just about anyone else is to a V1. But he won't bring it out unless it's a step change. His moat on this one is bigger than people realise.If there are performance improvements to be be had, he's best positioned to take advantage.

For where we are now, the BRM parawing is truly amazing. It really is as good as you could expect. With the bridle mod it pulls upwind very well and is nice to fly. Of course it's constrained by its physical limitations. There's no way you can expect a wing with no solid physical structure to compare with one that does for low end. Or with a kite on long lines that can be flown through the air to generate power.

Anyway the long and short of it for the OP (sorry for the ramble) is you have the urge to try out parawinging (which of course you do) and you can afford it, just go get one. It's something new, a new learning curve, a challenge with big rewards to be had. Start with one size. Whatever regular wing size you will be well powered in your good wind days. So if you frequently get 20 knots and you are well powered with a 4m wing in that wind, get the 4. For most people in most places that will be the 4 or the 5.1. If you're in a very windy place like Cape Town where I am, a 2.9 (which is often too big). Initially it won't replace winging completely. It has a narrower range, so you'll still need your wings. I have a 2.9, it has the top end of my 3 wing and the bottom end of my 2.2 (also BRMs). It works well when I'm adequately powered on my 2.2 and fully powered on my 3. Over time I should be able to increase the range in both directions with more skill. You should be good with your armstrong FG board. If you have a DW board great, gets going easy. I think a mid length may be the sweet spot, I've got a 6'5" x 18" x 75L (for my ~73kg) on order.

Thanks for writing this. It echoes my views too.

There are some excellent interviews with Greg where he talks about the develoment process and the many iterations he went through and watching it makes you realise how many pieces needed to be in place for this to happen. Plus he can now capitalise on the recent trend of the mid-lenghts coupled with revent efficient foils. So a combination of inherent things under his control (the product) plus an enviroment currently conducive/receptive to his product (the market) and how well they match (product-market fit).

It's one of those overnight successes years in the making.

I'm also not holding my breath waiting for better or much cheaper parawings in the next month(s). May as well go with the original and best one now.

Lots of details on new ENSIS ROGER Parawing: ensis.surf/product/roger/

From what I see from the videos the Ensis Roger handles beautifully as well. The December production is already sold, and according to today's email the January arrivals are almost sold as well, so talk to your Ensis shop and find out. BTW, a BRM 2.9, when bought from Europe (including the belt) cost me 1530 euros, which is not too far from being twice as expensive as the Ensis Roger 3.0 (suggested price 869 euro). But Greg being the one making it available is well worth supporting, so absolutely "no ragrets" : )

And I would suggest to not overthink it, parawinging is not that difficult. Anybody who is comfortable on a foil would master it in a few days.

My second day with a BRM.

Borne-Kite have a few parawings available and at a much better price than BRM. But that is all I know about them other than the demo vids they have out.

I started a list on another forum: forum.progressionproject.com/t/trash-bag-brands/7352

Basically we have:

Five-O: V1 available, V2 apparently coming out soon.
BRM: Available. The most popular at the moment.
North: Seen in person, mentioned on podcasts, nothing available yet. V1 released soon (?), V2 version next year (?)
Born-Kite: Doesn't seem very competitive compared to other parawings' performance. Initially aimed at traction kiting for land-boarding etc.
Gong: Coming soon,
Ensis: Initial size only 3m, mid Dec release. ~$700USD
Ozone: Only rumors and cheeky answers from Ozone reps so far. Nothing confirmed, no sightings.
Gin Kites: Nothing official yet? Only DIY conversions so far.
Flow Paragliders: Prototype stage, Australian paragliding company.
Element Kiteboarding: Instagram prototype sightings
Aeryn: Coming soon? Confirmed on their website.

Select to expand quote

zarb said..
Ensis: Initial size only 3m, mid Dec release. ~$700USD

How come? In Europe the retail is EUR 869.00. See just 2 posts above.

Select to expand quote

Taavi said..

zarb said..
Ensis: Initial size only 3m, mid Dec release. ~$700USD

How come? In Europe the retail is EUR 869.00. See just 2 posts above.

VAT is removed if ordered from Oz

Ozone have been making bridled double skinned kites for a loooong time. I wouldn't be surprised if they bring out a really good para wing from the get go.

Kai Lenny seems to like themwww.facebook.com/share/r/1DZccewdEQ/?mibextid=UalRPS

Select to expand quote

ArthurAlston said..

StephenZ said..
I don't expect many alternatives to BRM for a while. It takes time to develop a product like this. To really get it right. Lots of testing and retesting trying lots of things. I don't think it's that easy. And each size needs to be fully tested to come up with a full quiver, to iron out the minor variations.

Greg is extraordinarily good at doing this, after years of doing this day-in and day-out. Very methodical and meticulous and with a very refined sense of what he's looking for and what sort of minor adjustment might iterate in the right direction. I don't think there is anyone better than him at this.

Secondly, he's entirely focused on it. The kite and wing design companies have designers who are working across product lines. They have to get a set of quivers of kites wings etc out every year. This is their main bread and butter, they can't abandon it to go all in on a niche product.

Thirdly, there is no better place to do this R&D than Maui. The place is a wind-machine, wind all year round for most of the day. And warm water and pleasant temperatures. That's what you need to really dial stuff in. Anyone doing their R&D from there is going to have a big advantage, and that's why so many people do. You don't have to wait a week for the next windy day to try something out, by which time you had forgotten what you've tested against.There's only a few places on earth with conditions as suitable, and they may not have the infrastructure. E.g. it may be difficult or expensive to get samples or prototypes sent over.

It's actually amazing that Greg managed to bring this to market without any leaked pics or videos beforehand. That does speak of the respect that the local riders have of designers doing R&D and protecting that. It would be much harder to keep development efforts a secret elsewhere. And by now, peoples eyes are peeled for it, so if anyone does it, it will get seen and posted. So there probably isn't that much of it happening. Lots of homebaked foil kite mods but not that much serious development.It also means also that just about any other manufacturer will only have started development after the BRM wing came out.

Anyone who goes to the effort of bringing such a product to market is going to want to get rewarded for their efforts. So pricing may come in cheaper than BRM, but not by that much, as we are already seeing with Ensis. Otherwise it's just not worth bothering. Gong of course will come in a lot cheaper, but they typically do. But they have pursued a different concept really.

By the time the alternatives do arrive, after a year or so, you can probably expect a V2 from BRM. In fact I'd say he's probably closer to a V2 than just about anyone else is to a V1. But he won't bring it out unless it's a step change. His moat on this one is bigger than people realise.If there are performance improvements to be be had, he's best positioned to take advantage.

For where we are now, the BRM parawing is truly amazing. It really is as good as you could expect. With the bridle mod it pulls upwind very well and is nice to fly. Of course it's constrained by its physical limitations. There's no way you can expect a wing with no solid physical structure to compare with one that does for low end. Or with a kite on long lines that can be flown through the air to generate power.

Anyway the long and short of it for the OP (sorry for the ramble) is you have the urge to try out parawinging (which of course you do) and you can afford it, just go get one. It's something new, a new learning curve, a challenge with big rewards to be had. Start with one size. Whatever regular wing size you will be well powered in your good wind days. So if you frequently get 20 knots and you are well powered with a 4m wing in that wind, get the 4. For most people in most places that will be the 4 or the 5.1. If you're in a very windy place like Cape Town where I am, a 2.9 (which is often too big). Initially it won't replace winging completely. It has a narrower range, so you'll still need your wings. I have a 2.9, it has the top end of my 3 wing and the bottom end of my 2.2 (also BRMs). It works well when I'm adequately powered on my 2.2 and fully powered on my 3. Over time I should be able to increase the range in both directions with more skill. You should be good with your armstrong FG board. If you have a DW board great, gets going easy. I think a mid length may be the sweet spot, I've got a 6'5" x 18" x 75L (for my ~73kg) on order.

Thanks for writing this. It echoes my views too.

There are some excellent interviews with Greg where he talks about the develoment process and the many iterations he went through and watching it makes you realise how many pieces needed to be in place for this to happen. Plus he can now capitalise on the recent trend of the mid-lenghts coupled with revent efficient foils. So a combination of inherent things under his control (the product) plus an enviroment currently conducive/receptive to his product (the market) and how well they match (product-market fit).

It's one of those overnight successes years in the making.

I'm also not holding my breath waiting for better or much cheaper parawings in the next month(s). May as well go with the original and best one now.

Pulled the plug and got the BRM 4.0 and also picked up the KT Dragonfly, the journey begins!!!

Thanks all for the help.

DC

Select to expand quote

StephenZ said..
I don't expect many alternatives to BRM for a while. It takes time to develop a product like this. To really get it right. Lots of testing and retesting trying lots of things. I don't think it's that easy. And each size needs to be fully tested to come up with a full quiver, to iron out the minor variations.

Greg is extraordinarily good at doing this, after years of doing this day-in and day-out. Very methodical and meticulous and with a very refined sense of what he's looking for and what sort of minor adjustment might iterate in the right direction. I don't think there is anyone better than him at this.

Secondly, he's entirely focused on it. The kite and wing design companies have designers who are working across product lines. They have to get a set of quivers of kites wings etc out every year. This is their main bread and butter, they can't abandon it to go all in on a niche product.

Thirdly, there is no better place to do this R&D than Maui. The place is a wind-machine, wind all year round for most of the day. And warm water and pleasant temperatures. That's what you need to really dial stuff in. Anyone doing their R&D from there is going to have a big advantage, and that's why so many people do. You don't have to wait a week for the next windy day to try something out, by which time you had forgotten what you've tested against.There's only a few places on earth with conditions as suitable, and they may not have the infrastructure. E.g. it may be difficult or expensive to get samples or prototypes sent over.

It's actually amazing that Greg managed to bring this to market without any leaked pics or videos beforehand. That does speak of the respect that the local riders have of designers doing R&D and protecting that. It would be much harder to keep development efforts a secret elsewhere. And by now, peoples eyes are peeled for it, so if anyone does it, it will get seen and posted. So there probably isn't that much of it happening. Lots of homebaked foil kite mods but not that much serious development.It also means also that just about any other manufacturer will only have started development after the BRM wing came out.

Anyone who goes to the effort of bringing such a product to market is going to want to get rewarded for their efforts. So pricing may come in cheaper than BRM, but not by that much, as we are already seeing with Ensis. Otherwise it's just not worth bothering. Gong of course will come in a lot cheaper, but they typically do. But they have pursued a different concept really.

By the time the alternatives do arrive, after a year or so, you can probably expect a V2 from BRM. In fact I'd say he's probably closer to a V2 than just about anyone else is to a V1. But he won't bring it out unless it's a step change. His moat on this one is bigger than people realise.If there are performance improvements to be be had, he's best positioned to take advantage.

For where we are now, the BRM parawing is truly amazing. It really is as good as you could expect. With the bridle mod it pulls upwind very well and is nice to fly. Of course it's constrained by its physical limitations. There's no way you can expect a wing with no solid physical structure to compare with one that does for low end. Or with a kite on long lines that can be flown through the air to generate power.

Anyway the long and short of it for the OP (sorry for the ramble) is you have the urge to try out parawinging (which of course you do) and you can afford it, just go get one. It's something new, a new learning curve, a challenge with big rewards to be had. Start with one size. Whatever regular wing size you will be well powered in your good wind days. So if you frequently get 20 knots and you are well powered with a 4m wing in that wind, get the 4. For most people in most places that will be the 4 or the 5.1. If you're in a very windy place like Cape Town where I am, a 2.9 (which is often too big). Initially it won't replace winging completely. It has a narrower range, so you'll still need your wings. I have a 2.9, it has the top end of my 3 wing and the bottom end of my 2.2 (also BRMs). It works well when I'm adequately powered on my 2.2 and fully powered on my 3. Over time I should be able to increase the range in both directions with more skill. You should be good with your armstrong FG board. If you have a DW board great, gets going easy. I think a mid length may be the sweet spot, I've got a 6'5" x 18" x 75L (for my ~73kg) on order.

Hi Steve

great advice. Do you think I could use my 58l code?

Select to expand quote

Yuppy said..

StephenZ said..
I don't expect many alternatives to BRM for a while. It takes time to develop a product like this. To really get it right. Lots of testing and retesting trying lots of things. I don't think it's that easy. And each size needs to be fully tested to come up with a full quiver, to iron out the minor variations.

Greg is extraordinarily good at doing this, after years of doing this day-in and day-out. Very methodical and meticulous and with a very refined sense of what he's looking for and what sort of minor adjustment might iterate in the right direction. I don't think there is anyone better than him at this.

Secondly, he's entirely focused on it. The kite and wing design companies have designers who are working across product lines. They have to get a set of quivers of kites wings etc out every year. This is their main bread and butter, they can't abandon it to go all in on a niche product.

Thirdly, there is no better place to do this R&D than Maui. The place is a wind-machine, wind all year round for most of the day. And warm water and pleasant temperatures. That's what you need to really dial stuff in. Anyone doing their R&D from there is going to have a big advantage, and that's why so many people do. You don't have to wait a week for the next windy day to try something out, by which time you had forgotten what you've tested against.There's only a few places on earth with conditions as suitable, and they may not have the infrastructure. E.g. it may be difficult or expensive to get samples or prototypes sent over.

It's actually amazing that Greg managed to bring this to market without any leaked pics or videos beforehand. That does speak of the respect that the local riders have of designers doing R&D and protecting that. It would be much harder to keep development efforts a secret elsewhere. And by now, peoples eyes are peeled for it, so if anyone does it, it will get seen and posted. So there probably isn't that much of it happening. Lots of homebaked foil kite mods but not that much serious development.It also means also that just about any other manufacturer will only have started development after the BRM wing came out.

Anyone who goes to the effort of bringing such a product to market is going to want to get rewarded for their efforts. So pricing may come in cheaper than BRM, but not by that much, as we are already seeing with Ensis. Otherwise it's just not worth bothering. Gong of course will come in a lot cheaper, but they typically do. But they have pursued a different concept really.

By the time the alternatives do arrive, after a year or so, you can probably expect a V2 from BRM. In fact I'd say he's probably closer to a V2 than just about anyone else is to a V1. But he won't bring it out unless it's a step change. His moat on this one is bigger than people realise.If there are performance improvements to be be had, he's best positioned to take advantage.

For where we are now, the BRM parawing is truly amazing. It really is as good as you could expect. With the bridle mod it pulls upwind very well and is nice to fly. Of course it's constrained by its physical limitations. There's no way you can expect a wing with no solid physical structure to compare with one that does for low end. Or with a kite on long lines that can be flown through the air to generate power.

Anyway the long and short of it for the OP (sorry for the ramble) is you have the urge to try out parawinging (which of course you do) and you can afford it, just go get one. It's something new, a new learning curve, a challenge with big rewards to be had. Start with one size. Whatever regular wing size you will be well powered in your good wind days. So if you frequently get 20 knots and you are well powered with a 4m wing in that wind, get the 4. For most people in most places that will be the 4 or the 5.1. If you're in a very windy place like Cape Town where I am, a 2.9 (which is often too big). Initially it won't replace winging completely. It has a narrower range, so you'll still need your wings. I have a 2.9, it has the top end of my 3 wing and the bottom end of my 2.2 (also BRMs). It works well when I'm adequately powered on my 2.2 and fully powered on my 3. Over time I should be able to increase the range in both directions with more skill. You should be good with your armstrong FG board. If you have a DW board great, gets going easy. I think a mid length may be the sweet spot, I've got a 6'5" x 18" x 75L (for my ~73kg) on order.

Hi Steve

great advice. Do you think I could use my 58l code?

Hey.Yuppy, how's it going mate?
Yes you can, it's workable, but I find it's good to have at least neutral volume so you can float out a lull. If you're well powered the 58 will work great, but a bit more volume definitely extends the low end a bit.

Select to expand quote

eppo said..
Ozone have been making bridled double skinned kites for a loooong time. I wouldn't be surprised if they bring out a really good para wing from the get go.

And the GOAT for paragliders. They will come out with something mindblowing but it won't be cheap

New offerings from Gong.

Select to expand quote

StephenZ said..
I don't expect many alternatives to BRM for a while.

Anyone who goes to the effort of bringing such a product to market is going to want to get rewarded for their efforts. So pricing may come in cheaper than BRM, but not by that much.

By the time the alternatives do arrive, after a year or so, you can probably expect a V2 from BRM.

So we standing by these comments Steve??

Select to expand quote

CH3MTR4IL5 said..

StephenZ said..
I don't expect many alternatives to BRM for a while.

Anyone who goes to the effort of bringing such a product to market is going to want to get rewarded for their efforts. So pricing may come in cheaper than BRM, but not by that much.

By the time the alternatives do arrive, after a year or so, you can probably expect a V2 from BRM.

So we standing by these comments Steve??

No, I have to say I was probably wrong ! Things are moving fast!

Select to expand quote

StephenZ said..


No, I have to say I was probably wrong ! Things are moving fast!

I thought the same, also happy to stand corrected.

The Gong pricing is compelling. If they are good, they should sell very well. Flow seems to be the flavour of the moment, but I guess that can change too.

Foilrat on YouTube has some good comparisons between the BRM, flow, and Roger. He prefers the flow because the canopy is stable when riding it on the front lines which allows you to be depowered.

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dieseagull said..
Foilrat on YouTube has some good comparisons between the BRM, flow, and Roger. He prefers the flow because the canopy is stable when riding it on the front lines which allows you to be depowered.

Have not flown the Flow yet, and I will agree that it does look to be a nice and stable. All of these designs come with trade offs. The BRM and Ensis PW designs allow you to trim to the point of instability making them need a little more attention/skill to ride. Absolute stability in single skin kites requires trim that prevents it from flying too close to the edge of the window, usually that means less upwind angle and less depower range. Perhaps Flow threaded the needle and achieved that perfect balance but I am waiting for more reports to confirm.


Bottom line is all of these designs work, I think the gong wings look promising and ultimately the key factor of price will make them a winner.

I do own the roger, and after a couple of sessions, I do not see a big problem with collapsing. Honestly, if you have a decent understanding of wind angles, it is not an issue.
For now, I'm happy with it.

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CFL Foiler said..

Have not flown the Flow yet, and I will agree that it does look to be a nice and stable.
Bottom line is all of these designs work, I think the gong wings look promising and ultimately the key factor of price will make them a winner.

I tend to think its only a compromise if you're trying to replace winging (eg going upwind). For downwind, material size and price is probably the main factor, otherwise its basically just a bag to get you on a foil. I've gone the Flow because of proximity and price, but ultimately there is going to be a big market for a cheap and effective parawing that essentially replaces a paddle.

With all those designs it looks like Gong is testing the market as to what people actually want in a parawing and what they're willing to pay for it.