No profoundly deep revelations here but if you are hunting around for MA foils this could be worth a read. Most surprising thing for me is that I thought these foils would overlap a lot more, but instead, I think they all operate best in different circumstances.

www.wouzel.com/post/quick-comparison-afs-silk-code-x-kt-nomad

Thought it was quite honest. Need to get the guy a demo on the FLITELab Flux to add to the mix.

good to read that an foil from mid 2023 can still be very much up to date.

Nice breakdown mate. I'd be really interested to hear an update if you try the nomad 700. I was thinking the whole time that it'd be a better fit for you, then got to the part where you basically say that :)

Thanks. Was there anything I missed and should have commented on?

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activechris said..
Thought it was quite honest. Need to get the guy a demo on the FLITELab Flux to add to the mix.

I'd really like to try the Flux line. I can imagine it being pretty amazing and would be a great comparison going into next year.

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maxpwr said..
Nice breakdown mate. I'd be really interested to hear an update if you try the nomad 700. I was thinking the whole time that it'd be a better fit for you, then got to the part where you basically say that :)

I definitely asked for a demo on that one but stock was limited and they didn't want to crack the seal on a freshie for a demo. Pretty sure that's the one for me! Doing an 800's comparison was good though. That doesn't happen too often either.

I'm personally really glad there's some great MA options around now vs the trend that was going crazy high aspect. I've always preferred turning than gliding/pumping and HATE feeling locked in by a foil it's one of the sketchier feelings.

I also think when powered by a wing the MA's have even more of an argument.

Having said that I'm not generally one to hype gear too much I've been riding Code for ages now and have been happy with the S series they did everything well enough better than most other foils I'd tried but I always told people they weren't perfect and there were still moments on them I wouldn't feel completely at home.

That's a long way of leading into saying I didn't rush out and buy the 810x when it was released as I was happy enough with my S series and didn't expect the change to be that significant.

After a couple of weeks mostly winging but with a bit of sup foil in the mix the 810x is easily the most comfortable I have ever felt on a foil, it makes sense as the sizing and style of foiling it has been built for is very much aligned with what I'm after but my takeaway is it has just made things a level easier and the way it reacts under my feet feels like there's been a layer of translation removed and it just does what I want it to with minimal fuss and I've come away surprisingly happy with the purchase!

We have a foil event on next weekend and I'm definitely going to try to get some sessions in on some of the other options you mentioned, particularly interested to see what the nomad and flux feels like.

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drc13 said..
I'm personally really glad there's some great MA options around now vs the trend that was going crazy high aspect. I've always preferred turning than gliding/pumping and HATE feeling locked in by a foil it's one of the sketchier feelings.

I also think when powered by a wing the MA's have even more of an argument.

Stoked to hear you're enjoying the Code X. I'm ready for the MA revolution! Hoping all the brands push each other hard this year in the 8-9AR realm. If we can get the MA foils dialed for more than just wave riding, but also optimized for swell riding, I think that will be really exciting.

I have been using the Silk 1050 and 850 for wingfoiling waves for almost 2 years now. I really am on your side for high end and drive through the turns. For me this translates in total controll without thinking about it. I bought the S series from Codefoils to give them a try. I had to buy smaller ones for wingfoiling immediately because i felt so overfoild. Even on the 720 i could not get the same controll as on my 850 Silk. I don't know if it is because of thickness or the amount of Camber. I think as with many foils they are not designed for winging. It is good to see that brands are turning more towards wingfoiling with the new ma's. I sold the code quiver and bougt the new afs skinny mast. Very happy again.
Ps i also tried the afs enduro's. They are good for wingfoiling. Fast and giding but i miss the drive through the turns.

Aloha

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aman said..
I have been using the Silk 1050 and 850 for wingfoiling waves for almost 2 years now. I really am on your side for high end and drive through the turns. For me this translates in total controll without thinking about it. I bought the S series from Codefoils to give them a try. I had to buy smaller ones for wingfoiling immediately because i felt so overfoild. Even on the 720 i could not get the same controll as on my 850 Silk. I don't know if it is because of thickness or the amount of Camber. I think as with many foils they are not designed for winging. It is good to see that brands are turning more towards wingfoiling with the new ma's. I sold the code quiver and bougt the new afs skinny mast. Very happy again.
Ps i also tried the afs enduro's. They are good for wingfoiling. Fast and giding but i miss the drive through the turns.

Aloha

I wonder if the parawing will help drive the MA foil development. It feels like MA foils have always been about being pushed by a wing or being intentionally slower to surf the pocket. Now though, you could argue that super efficient and faster 8AR foils are viable for swell riding.

I also wonder if we would ever see a series that as the sizes get smaller the foils become optimized differently? Perhaps this has already happened and I don't know.

If I think of the Silks as 100% high end dedication I wonder if there would ever be a lineup like this:

1050: 100% high end optimization - I pretty much always want this foil as unlocked as possible. That's why I use the skinny mast and UG41 tail.
850: 85% high end optimization. - Since this foil seems to max out at unrealistically high end maybe some of that could be released and throttled into low end?
650: 70% high end optimization. - Same thing here. I can't max this out, I don't think it's possible in the river. So maybe letting go of some of the high end and giving it a bit more user friendly low end would be cool? This would mean it's not a dedicated big wave foil anymore, but more of a dedicated wing/swell ride foil.

Perhaps there's drawbacks to releasing a lineup like that though?

The Duotone Crest mono block set up would be a good addition to the list. In contrast to the AFS Silks these seem optimised for the mid - Low end of each size.

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BWalnut said.. 650: 70% high end optimization. - Same thing here. I can't max this out, I don't think it's possible in the river. So maybe letting go of some of the high end and giving it a bit more user friendly low end would be cool? This would mean it's not a dedicated big wave foil anymore, but more of a dedicated wing/swell ride foil.

Sounds like a 600 Enduro

What is considered MA these days? Below 8 AR?

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hilly said..

Sounds like a 600 Enduro

I feel like enduro is still high end optimization!

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Faff said..
What is considered MA these days? Below 8 AR?

I think 8 is the general standard. I consider 8-9 to be MA.

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BWalnut said..I feel like enduro is still high end optimization!

I think they work much better when just going on light wind days and are super fun in gutless waves. Pump way better than the Silks.

Why is Pure 700 V2 such little talked about foil. There are no reviews and very little mention in the Forums. On paper it seems like something between Silk and Enduro. 9.6 AR chambered section with reflex trailing edge ( Not as extreme as KT). Good low end and very fast should cover broad range of use from freestyle to wave riding to race, with better glide than Silk 850 maybe similar low end for less surface (700cm for 82cm span). Somewhere I even read it is on par with ML 700 which is supposedly very high on the list of best foils. Any thoughts?

we just enjoy the pleasure ridges and the Pure doesnt have them

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real1 said..
Why is Pure 700 V2 such little talked about foil. There are no reviews and very little mention in the Forums. On paper it seems like something between Silk and Enduro. 9.6 AR chambered section with reflex trailing edge ( Not as extreme as KT). Good low end and very fast should cover broad range of use from freestyle to wave riding to race, with better glide than Silk 850 maybe similar low end for less surface (700cm for 82cm span). Somewhere I even read it is on par with ML 700 which is supposedly very high on the list of best foils. Any thoughts?

Probably overshadowed by the silk? I think it's a more locked in speed and boost feel from what I've been told. Definitely fast with lots of pop according to the freestyle kids.

Silk 850 still my everyday foil for the last two seasons. Works well in all conditions for me. Underpowered or overpowered. Flat water or bumps. Ship wakes or groundswell. Can go pretty slow and pretty fast. Easy foil to ride. Can pump the carve

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real1 said..
Why is Pure 700 V2 such little talked about foil. There are no reviews and very little mention in the Forums. On paper it seems like something between Silk and Enduro. 9.6 AR chambered section with reflex trailing edge ( Not as extreme as KT). Good low end and very fast should cover broad range of use from freestyle to wave riding to race, with better glide than Silk 850 maybe similar low end for less surface (700cm for 82cm span). Somewhere I even read it is on par with ML 700 which is supposedly very high on the list of best foils. Any thoughts?

I have the ML 700 and Silk 850. I have also spent a few days on the Pure 700v2.
It's a very fast foil (faster than the ML) but with less low end than the Silk or ML and a more skitty, lively ride. Not as secure feeling.

It would be a very good low wind course racing foil (and is a good freestyle foil ofc). Personally for Racing I prefer the ML 700 to get going in light winds and in the waves I prefer the super secure Silks.

The Pure 700v2 is a great foil though, and perhaps if hadn't already got the Mikeslab 700 I would have been tempted...

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r0d said..

real1 said..
Why is Pure 700 V2 such little talked about foil. There are no reviews and very little mention in the Forums. On paper it seems like something between Silk and Enduro. 9.6 AR chambered section with reflex trailing edge ( Not as extreme as KT). Good low end and very fast should cover broad range of use from freestyle to wave riding to race, with better glide than Silk 850 maybe similar low end for less surface (700cm for 82cm span). Somewhere I even read it is on par with ML 700 which is supposedly very high on the list of best foils. Any thoughts?

I have the ML 700 and Silk 850. I have also spent a few days on the Pure 700v2.
It's a very fast foil (faster than the ML) but with less low end than the Silk or ML and a more skitty, lively ride. Not as secure feeling.

It would be a very good low wind course racing foil (and is a good freestyle foil ofc). Personally for Racing I prefer the ML 700 to get going in light winds and in the waves I prefer the super secure Silks.

The Pure 700v2 is a great foil though, and perhaps if hadn't already got the Mikeslab 700 I would have been tempted...

Does it surf very well? I often times feel like the speed of small foils is the enemy of surfing in my smaller conditions. I'm always slowing the Silk 650 down to stay in the pocket. Best turns ever but when swell riding you gotta be on your game! That's why I think the Nomad 700 is probably nice. Naturally slower I'd expect.

BWalnut I'm afraid i don't know, I only had the Pure 700 v2 out in flat water (hence the speed comparisons).Hard to beat the Silks for turning though!

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r0d said..
BWalnut I'm afraid i don't know, I only had the Pure 700 v2 out in flat water (hence the speed comparisons).Hard to beat the Silks for turning though!

Totally agree! They are my favorites.

Ok over the weekend I had a chance to demo (short sessions in varied conditions so not a whole lot of feedback I'd put much faith in)

Two larger Code X series (I own and ride the 810x as my daily, seem to scale as expected the 985x was probably at my size limit though as I was starting to occasionally get that overfoiled/locked in feeling which I don't like)

FliteLab Flux 707 and 808 medium fuse 125 stab 82cm mast probably my standout of the show buttery smooth and I do wonder how much is the mast and how much is the foil attributing to that. I was impressed by the connection system Chris showed me, seems solid and makes swapping out a front or fuse quick and easy. Had the easiest tips out turns for me, plenty of lift and hold when high on the mast. One of the wing sessions everyone else other than me and one other guy came down in a lull I was on the 808 at the time. The 707 definitely felt like it wanted to roll into a turn more than the 808 to the point I had to catch it a few times, it was being ridden in very choppy lit conditions though. Be very interested to ride it in my local waves which have a bit more energy and see if that low end comes at a cost. I hope the company continues to put time into the foil and board range and maybe less in the battery stuff as they are onto something. I like many others had wondered if it was just Bennetts doing Bennetts things but from this test I'd say there's something there for the very average foilers such as myself. I was able to link a couple of waves on the SUP (808) but most of it was winging so the unknowns are pump and how it handles more energy in the wave.

Armstrong 690 during the biggest conditions of the weekend, made it feel easy getting in the turns on the face. I'd need to ride one a bit more but initial thoughts are the Mk2 MA's are a worthy contender. Watched Aiden from Armstrong ripping the face with big carves on the same setup.

Duotone Dlab 800ish on the backpack assist setup foil itself felt pretty good but again on an assist setup hard to judge, team riders were ripping on them though.

North something or other on a FD integrated setup (wasn't a fan but conditions weren't favourable)

Long story short I feel most of these new gen mid aspect foils are pretty damn good and definitely suit my style of foiling. I have left Flux curious but also wondering if a more efficient code mast would give the same feel

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drc13 said..
Ok over the weekend I had a chance to demo (short sessions in varied conditions so not a whole lot of feedback I'd put much faith in)

Two larger Code X series (I own and ride the 810x as my daily, seem to scale as expected the 985x was probably at my size limit though as I was starting to occasionally get that overfoiled/locked in feeling which I don't like)

FliteLab Flux 707 and 808 medium fuse 125 stab 82cm mast probably my standout of the show buttery smooth and I do wonder how much is the mast and how much is the foil attributing to that. I was impressed by the connection system Chris showed me, seems solid and makes swapping out a front or fuse quick and easy. Had the easiest tips out turns for me, plenty of lift and hold when high on the mast. One of the wing sessions everyone else other than me and one other guy came down in a lull I was on the 808 at the time. The 707 definitely felt like it wanted to roll into a turn more than the 808 to the point I had to catch it a few times, it was being ridden in very choppy lit conditions though. Be very interested to ride it in my local waves which have a bit more energy and see if that low end comes at a cost. I hope the company continues to put time into the foil and board range and maybe less in the battery stuff as they are onto something. I like many others had wondered if it was just Bennetts doing Bennetts things but from this test I'd say there's something there for the very average foilers such as myself. I was able to link a couple of waves on the SUP (808) but most of it was winging so the unknowns are pump and how it handles more energy in the wave.

Armstrong 690 during the biggest conditions of the weekend, made it feel easy getting in the turns on the face. I'd need to ride one a bit more but initial thoughts are the Mk2 MA's are a worthy contender. Watched Aiden from Armstrong ripping the face with big carves on the same setup.

Duotone Dlab 800ish on the backpack assist setup foil itself felt pretty good but again on an assist setup hard to judge, team riders were ripping on them though.

North something or other on a FD integrated setup (wasn't a fan but conditions weren't favourable)

Long story short I feel most of these new gen mid aspect foils are pretty damn good and definitely suit my style of foiling. I have left Flux curious but also wondering if a more efficient code mast would give the same feel

Yeh oskar and Guy def showed during the flow project runs the new armie MA needs to be in the mix.

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eppo said..[ Yeh oskar and Guy def showed during the flow project runs the new armie MA needs to be in the mix.

If you put those two on any foil it would be in the mix

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drc13 said..
Ok over the weekend I had a chance to demo (short sessions in varied conditions so not a whole lot of feedback I'd put much faith in)

Two larger Code X series (I own and ride the 810x as my daily, seem to scale as expected the 985x was probably at my size limit though as I was starting to occasionally get that overfoiled/locked in feeling which I don't like)

FliteLab Flux 707 and 808 medium fuse 125 stab 82cm mast probably my standout of the show buttery smooth and I do wonder how much is the mast and how much is the foil attributing to that. I was impressed by the connection system Chris showed me, seems solid and makes swapping out a front or fuse quick and easy. Had the easiest tips out turns for me, plenty of lift and hold when high on the mast. One of the wing sessions everyone else other than me and one other guy came down in a lull I was on the 808 at the time. The 707 definitely felt like it wanted to roll into a turn more than the 808 to the point I had to catch it a few times, it was being ridden in very choppy lit conditions though. Be very interested to ride it in my local waves which have a bit more energy and see if that low end comes at a cost. I hope the company continues to put time into the foil and board range and maybe less in the battery stuff as they are onto something. I like many others had wondered if it was just Bennetts doing Bennetts things but from this test I'd say there's something there for the very average foilers such as myself. I was able to link a couple of waves on the SUP (808) but most of it was winging so the unknowns are pump and how it handles more energy in the wave.

Armstrong 690 during the biggest conditions of the weekend, made it feel easy getting in the turns on the face. I'd need to ride one a bit more but initial thoughts are the Mk2 MA's are a worthy contender. Watched Aiden from Armstrong ripping the face with big carves on the same setup.

Duotone Dlab 800ish on the backpack assist setup foil itself felt pretty good but again on an assist setup hard to judge, team riders were ripping on them though.

North something or other on a FD integrated setup (wasn't a fan but conditions weren't favourable)

Long story short I feel most of these new gen mid aspect foils are pretty damn good and definitely suit my style of foiling. I have left Flux curious but also wondering if a more efficient code mast would give the same feel

Awesome rundown/addition to the mix here. It's always so hard to get deep thoughts out of short demos but sometimes that's the best we get.

Stoked to hear another positive review on the Flux stuff. Looking forward to trying those one day.

Efficient masts are critical for new foils. As someone who is really dedicated to the mid aspect experience I think getting your mast thickness down to 13mm or thinner is a must. Top end benefits for bigger sizes and low end benefits for smaller sizes. Best way I can describe it is to say it feels like you are only riding the foil, instead of riding a foil that's dragging a mast along.

It is possible to have A LOT of fun on somewhat thicker, less expensive masts.
Even with new foils.

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west1 said..
It is possible to have A LOT of fun on somewhat thicker, less expensive masts.
Even with new foils.

Of course. No one saying you can't have fun on traditional masts. However, there are awesome upgrades to be experienced on both thinner and shorter chorded masts. They expand the range of my foils, saving me money IMO, lower rider energy outputs, all exciting developments. I think most every brand will have updated masts in 2026. Exciting time to be a foiler!

I recently tried a new yet to be released thinner UHM mast of one of the premium brands and it was a shocking improvement to their HM mast that I normally ride. Everything was easier/better; getting on foil with the parawing, jibing, pumping, carving, linking swell with the parawing stashed. Even if every single aspect was only 10-15% better the total experience was hugely improved. I was super satisfied with my setup before trying the new one, so be careful with what you demo...

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Jve said..
I recently tried a new yet to be released thinner UHM mast of one of the premium brands and it was a shocking improvement to their HM mast that I normally ride. Everything was easier/better; getting on foil with the parawing, jibing, pumping, carving, linking swell with the parawing stashed. Even if every single aspect was only 10-15% better the total experience was hugely improved. I was super satisfied with my setup before trying the new one, so be careful with what you demo...

This! ^^^

Plus, the cool thing is that when you upgrade your mast it upgrades every foil you own. It's one of the absolute best ways to step your kit up instead of chasing different foils.

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BWalnut said..

Plus, the cool thing is that when you upgrade your mast it upgrades every foil you own. It's one of the absolute best ways to step your kit up instead of chasing different foils.

Unless your brand decides to release a new mast that renders every foil you own obsolete.