I wonder what the experience is. I was shocked to hear Mr Leboe saying that his angles may be worse than wingers in the BRM. This is serious feedback from one of the top two-line kiters alive.
For me, the only way to hold overpower is a high angle, harness, and edging.
I'm getting at least 20 to 30 degrees better angles in the naish morph than wingers and kiters; indeed, my problem is that when properly powered, I'm constantly cutting their trajectories, and I must be careful with that.
I'm ordering BRMs now, as I want to test shorter lines.

Does anybody also see upwind as a limitation at this point? Any feedback on angles?

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pp4 said..
I wonder what the experience is. I was shocked to hear Mr Leboe saying that his angles may be worse than wingers in the BRM. This is serious feedback from one of the top two-line kiters alive.
For me, the only way to hold overpower is a high angle, harness, and edging.
I'm getting at least 20 to 30 degrees better angles in the naish morph than wingers and kiters; indeed, my problem is that when properly powered, I'm constantly cutting their trajectories, and I must be careful with that.
I'm ordering BRMs now, as I want to test shorter lines.

Does anybody also see upwind as a limitation at this point? Any feedback on angles?

Going upwind on a parawing seems to be one of those things that is wildly different for different people. I was one of a handful of guys who started in Western Australia soon after the BRM Maliko was launched and had a full summer wind season to get good on it. I immediately went for a dual point connection harness and found I was consistently going upwind at steeper angle than the local wingers. I was having to edge super hard some days when the wind picked up as depower wasn't much of an option other than pointing super high. The angles I was getting were crazy good even on toeside Admittedly my speed would drop and a very good winger would possibly get to an upwind location quicker than me but not at a steeper upwind angle. We are in our off wind season winter and I've been on the BRM V2 since . My first reaction of the V2 was it's not as easy to go upwind in a harness as easily, but better without when compared to V1. V2 early on I was stalling by edging too hard while trying to pull in on the rear lines. I now ride with my hand at the front of the bar and pull in to depower more often to prevent the stalling when edging hard and the wind drops. I'm rocketing upwind at times but being gusty winter conditions I can't say for sure I'm going upwind as well as the V1 Maliko. At times for sure but until summer it's hard to say definitively. The shorter lines might reduce the upwind ability a bit but honestly I'm not too concerned because I know I'm going upwind as well as most wingers which is well enough. The V2's are a little technical when riding with a harness and people seem very particular with their harness set up. Single point doesn't work for me so well but others love it. Some don't like any and I really like two point wide apart with elasticated dyneema inside a tube to allow for micro tuning/adjustments but a little locked in at the same time. I'm sure others would hate this style but it's what works super well for me. Super compact and no tangles too. My advice for what it's worth would be to use a harness and edge hard and point upwind and don't adjust the wang too much but don't over sheet and stall it. The latter advice even more important with short lines as it's so reactive. Like moving to a shorter fuse and stab, what's hard at first becomes so easy and normal once you adjust and have the muscle memory. The short lines are like that. Another benefit of the short lines as it's easier to pump the board up and get going. So nice!

If the conditions are right the BRM upwind angles are perfectly fine. Don't even have to be an expert parawing rider, and no harness needed, just angle the foil (take a small enough foil that you are comfortable riding with, at good enough speed for that foil) and it goes. It was just my second day of riding with a PW. With a 850 cm2 front wing, 70 L board, quite a windy day. The waves and the stripes of tree leaves coming directly downwind.

The problems come when the wind is gusty. Then the upwind angles with an ordinary similarly sized (or even smaller) normal wing are far superior. People who claim otherwise don't have the luxury of having an experience with really gusty winds. And that's normal and understandable - parawings are not made to be used on a small lake where the wind strength changes after every 50 meters.

These are some of the angles I'm getting on the v1 BRM. This is the 2.9. I think these angles are pretty close to what wingers can expect in similar conditions. This was already over 6 months ago, so relatively early in my parawinging journey, I'm confident I can get better now, as I'm more comfortable in highly powered conditions.
For me the magic number is 30 degrees upwind, that gives you 1m upwind for every 2m travelled. I'm easily getting that here.
I'm looking to complement my v1 quiver with a v2 Kanaha 4.0. if I can get a much better angle upwind I'll be delighted. If I can get this angle or better across a wider
range of poweredness I'll also be chuffed.

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Taavi said..
If the conditions are right the BRM upwind angles are perfectly fine. Don't even have to be an expert parawing rider, and no harness needed, just angle the foil (take a small enough foil that you are comfortable riding with, at good enough speed for that foil) and it goes. It was just my second day of riding with a PW. With a 850 cm2 front wing, 70 L board, quite a windy day. The waves and the stripes of tree leaves coming directly downwind.

The problems come when the wind is gusty. Then the upwind angles with an ordinary similarly sized (or even smaller) normal wing are far superior. People who claim otherwise don't have the luxury of having an experience with really gusty winds. And that's normal and understandable - parawings are not made to be used on a small lake where the wind strength changes after every 50 meters.

Do you have any insights on the Ka'a and V2 wings and how they go upwind compared to the BRM V1 wings? Why would being unhooked give better upwind on the V2 for some?

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Sheps said..
Do you have any insights on the Ka'a and V2 wings and how they go upwind compared to the BRM V1 wings? Why would being unhooked give better upwind on the V2 for some?

I don't think there is any advantage in riding without a harness. Just that, if the conditions are right, and if the foil is super well setup and has low drag (my mast is 12.5 mm thin, using a smallest stab that is extra set up to have even less drag, riding very high on the mast, etc.) it goes well upwind with very little effort. Once a really strong gust hits a harness is definitely a good idea, or in case you plan to ride far upwind.

I have a Ka 4.3, but on an only day I have tried it the wind was too terrible. I was perfectly happy using a 3.0 m2 normal wing (and testing a new foil and a new board for the first time) and then trying the PW in the same conditions was such a frustrating experience. Our wind is just that terrible, but with a good normal wing it does not matter, then it's super easy to keep the foil happy even during the lulls. I hope 99% people are who are parawinging have much better wind conditions.

Here, at the very end of the clip, at 02:54 there is a short lap with a Ka 4.3. And before that, I was properly enjoying a 3.0 wing, no problems whatsoever.

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Taavi said..

Sheps said..
Do you have any insights on the Ka'a and V2 wings and how they go upwind compared to the BRM V1 wings? Why would being unhooked give better upwind on the V2 for some?

I don't think there is any advantage in riding without a harness. Just that, if the conditions are right, and if the foil is super well setup and has low drag (my mast is 12.5 mm thin, using a smallest stab that is extra set up to have even less drag, riding very high on the mast, etc.) it goes well upwind with very little effort. Once a really strong gust hits a harness is definitely a good idea, or in case you plan to ride far upwind.

I have a Ka 4.3, but on an only day I have tried it the wind was too terrible. I was perfectly happy using a 3.0 m2 normal wing (and testing a new foil and a new board for the first time) and then trying the PW in the same conditions was such a frustrating experience. Our wind is just that terrible, but with a good normal wing it does not matter, then it's super easy to keep the foil happy even during the lulls. I hope 99% people are who are parawinging have much better wind conditions.

Here, at the very end of the clip, at 02:54 there is a short lap with a Ka 4.3. And before that, I was properly enjoying a 3.0 wing, no problems whatsoever.

Interesting. We are blessed with stable wind in WA for much of the year. I got my V2 wangs just in time for the variable wind and it's most likely the conditions that are keeping me from cranking upwind consistently. Still addicted though.

For me the Flow Dwing goes upwind as well or maybe slightly better than wingers if powered. The longer I use the parawing the better my angles get, hoping I have it nailed by summer, crap wind atm here. As said before a lull is harder to deal with on a parawing compared to a ding, the ability to pump through lulls is a huge advantage. It is a fun learning stage

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StephenZ said..
These are some of the angles I'm getting on the v1 BRM. This is the 2.9. I think these angles are pretty close to what wingers can expect in similar conditions. This was already over 6 months ago, so relatively early in my parawinging journey, I'm confident I can get better now, as I'm more comfortable in highly powered conditions.
For me the magic number is 30 degrees upwind, that gives you 1m upwind for every 2m travelled. I'm easily getting that here.
I'm looking to complement my v1 quiver with a v2 Kanaha 4.0. if I can get a much better angle upwind I'll be delighted. If I can get this angle or better across a wider
range of poweredness I'll also be chuffed.

Hey Stephen, I'm just learning and trying to find good upwind angles. Were there any particular aspects of technique you found to maximise upwind angle?

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Acker said..

Hey Stephen, I'm just learning and trying to find good upwind angles. Were there any particular aspects of technique you found to maximise upwind angle?

Firstly a harness is a must have, at least for the BRM v1. For the flow and ozone etc they might work fine without one, and the nuances of the their technique might differ.

Then you want to be quite well powered. Then it's really like the technique to drive upwind when you're well powered kitesurfing. Keep the kite low, and lean against it. Use the lift of the foil to drive upwind. As you do this the wing gets pushed to the edge of the window and eventually stalls out if you push upwind too hard. If you're not as powered the stall point will be reached at a lower angle. If you find the wing starting to stall a bit, angle the foil a little less upwind, depower the wing a bit, and the wing moves back a bit into the power zone. So it's a bit of a balancing act with small adjustments, especially if it's a bit gusty.

I try to relax my arms and lean fully into the harness, and just use my hands to just make micro adjustments. The tendency can be to hold the parawing with a bit of a death grip, as it is pulling really hard. Once you get used to allowing the harness to take the load fully it becomes surprisingly comfortable to handle even when quite overpowered.

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StephenZ said..

Acker said..

Hey Stephen, I'm just learning and trying to find good upwind angles. Were there any particular aspects of technique you found to maximise upwind angle?

Firstly a harness is a must have, at least for the BRM v1. For the flow and ozone etc they might work fine without one, and the nuances of the their technique might differ.

Then you want to be quite well powered. Then it's really like the technique to drive upwind when you're well powered kitesurfing. Keep the kite low, and lean against it. Use the lift of the foil to drive upwind. As you do this the wing gets pushed to the edge of the window and eventually stalls out if you push upwind too hard. If you're not as powered the stall point will be reached at a lower angle. If you find the wing starting to stall a bit, angle the foil a little less upwind, depower the wing a bit, and the wing moves back a bit into the power zone. So it's a bit of a balancing act with small adjustments, especially if it's a bit gusty.

I try to relax my arms and lean fully into the harness, and just use my hands to just make micro adjustments. The tendency can be to hold the parawing with a bit of a death grip, as it is pulling really hard. Once you get used to allowing the harness to take the load fully it becomes surprisingly comfortable to handle even when quite overpowered.

So well explained and exactly what I've experienced myself. Great to read this!

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StephenZ said..


Firstly a harness is a must have, at least for the BRM v1. For the flow and ozone etc they might work fine without one, and the nuances of the their technique might differ.

Then you want to be quite well powered. Then it's really like the technique to drive upwind when you're well powered kitesurfing. Keep the kite low, and lean against it. Use the lift of the foil to drive upwind. As you do this the wing gets pushed to the edge of the window and eventually stalls out if you push upwind too hard. If you're not as powered the stall point will be reached at a lower angle. If you find the wing starting to stall a bit, angle the foil a little less upwind, depower the wing a bit, and the wing moves back a bit into the power zone. So it's a bit of a balancing act with small adjustments, especially if it's a bit gusty.

I try to relax my arms and lean fully into the harness, and just use my hands to just make micro adjustments. The tendency can be to hold the parawing with a bit of a death grip, as it is pulling really hard. Once you get used to allowing the harness to take the load fully it becomes surprisingly comfortable to handle even when quite overpowered.

Well said!

If you're just going to ride upwind / downwind, yes a harness is mandatory or you're not going to be out for very long and will quickly develop carpal tunnel, tendonitis in your elbows, and a host of other maladies.

Even with the harness though I have to regularly remind myself to relax my grip. Any amount of gustiness makes it very difficult to settle in to a relaxed trajectory. I find myself regularly sailing unhooked but holding onto the harness line with my upwind hand through lulls and gusts where I'm too scared to stay hooked in. Takes half the load off the hand on the bar. Also allows you to twist your body further upwind compared to having both hands on the bar. With the Ozone it's pretty comfy keeping both hands on the bar through gusts.

It takes some time to get used to that very thin line between falling over backwards or getting pulled off your edge

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StephenZ said..

Acker said..

Hey Stephen, I'm just learning and trying to find good upwind angles. Were there any particular aspects of technique you found to maximise upwind angle?

Firstly a harness is a must have, at least for the BRM v1. For the flow and ozone etc they might work fine without one, and the nuances of the their technique might differ.

Then you want to be quite well powered. Then it's really like the technique to drive upwind when you're well powered kitesurfing. Keep the kite low, and lean against it. Use the lift of the foil to drive upwind. As you do this the wing gets pushed to the edge of the window and eventually stalls out if you push upwind too hard. If you're not as powered the stall point will be reached at a lower angle. If you find the wing starting to stall a bit, angle the foil a little less upwind, depower the wing a bit, and the wing moves back a bit into the power zone. So it's a bit of a balancing act with small adjustments, especially if it's a bit gusty.

I try to relax my arms and lean fully into the harness, and just use my hands to just make micro adjustments. The tendency can be to hold the parawing with a bit of a death grip, as it is pulling really hard. Once you get used to allowing the harness to take the load fully it becomes surprisingly comfortable to handle even when quite overpowered.

That's excellent Stephen...thanks so much!!

Finally, I have the BRM Kanaha 5.5m here, it goes upwind plenty, but feels like going a bit less upwind than the naish.
In any case, there are plenty of other benefits to compensate for this 5 or 10 degree difference.
Two more BRM ordered.