I only use 2 foils for all my sessions : 800 freestyle like 6.0 AR for wing/freestyle or wingfoil downwind in big/survival conditions. And 1040 with 10.1 AR for downwind parawing sessions in little to big conditions.
Watching youtube I see all those people with like 6-7 different sizes of the same foil. Cant understand why.
Speed differences with my 2 old 1100, 800 and 600 foils were not even 3-4 knots top speed between them (like 22 knts max with 1100, 25 with 800 and around 25 with 600). No notable differences in maniability, and with every size down big differences in difficulties getting it to fly, glide, etc.

So really cant understand the point of having 30 different front wings not even talking about the price

Agree. I have been foiling for 9 years now. Started out with more and more and more gear, but I end up with 2 foils in the end. Similar quiver as you: 750 Sk8 (8 AR) and 1090 (9,5 AR) Eagle are my do it all quiver for winging. Would go 850 Sk8 (I'm 100kgs/220 pounds) probably if I didnt use the 750 Sk8 crossing over into kitefoiling aswell. Still have loads of gear lying around unused. Various sizes Phantom, Phantom S, and Seven Seas collected over the years. Also use an Escape 530 kitefoiling when going for airs, but no longer count it towards my winging quiver.

Who has 30 different front wings?

570 cm2 if there are waves



and 680 cm2 in light wind on flat water

It's not that they are riding them. It's because foiling gear has continued to progress and by the time the next "game changer" comes out, last year's latest greatest thing can barely be given away.

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Holoholo said..
It's not that they are riding them. It's because foiling gear has continued to progress and by the time the next "game changer" comes out, last year's latest greatest thing can barely be given away.

Couldn't agree more. Trying to get rid of my North DW1400 foil and it's impossible! But some front wings seem to stand the test of time and are popular. Eg sf series from North, enduro from AfS still very much in demand. I bet the KT atlas and nomads too will be around for a while.

generally speaking depreciation is just crazy and I now think very carefully when buying anything. Essentially it's money down the drain on every purchase .

for parawing you say specifically . probably right only use mainly two fronts - also two tails depending .. but there are people who cover just about all the foiling disciplines out there and you do need a different foil sizes and types. Especially if you ride at a reasonable level.

But for para DW - agreed . kind of We are playing around with MA style wings, HA and soon UHA mixing and matching depending on conditions . getting more specific to suite conditions.

I have always thought chopping and changing gear too much can hinder your progress and enjoyment. I feel like some guys spend too much time analysing and adapting to gear changes instead of focusing on their riding skills and actually just enjoying themselves.

Before parawing I could easily have a 2 front wing quiver for wing and sup foil in surf. A MA surfy wing with plenty of top end and an HA glidy all rounder with decent low end. Now that I mostly just parawing I also the big boy session saver wing. Previously I didn't use proper big wings over 1100 span but now I really enjoy it. Not only do they get you up and going to get a decent session in but they also maximise the energy in the bumps.
My quiver now, 105kg rider on Axis, mostly just parawing but will still wing in waves and sup surf. 950 surge- surfy glidy tons of top end and great range.
ART V2 1099- very glidy and still quite surfy, this has been the best all round downwind/ bump surfing wing for me. Also works great in the surf on smaller days. Not enough top end to be my smallest wing in downwind or in surf though. The range on the 950 surge is so good it will eat into v2 1099 a bit but I still think I will hold onto the 1099 for a while.
Spitfire 1180- this is the big boy low end wing that I never knew I needed but now really love. The big spitfires turn so well for big wings and the 1180 has a really nice speed range for a heavy rider. Can get up super easily and stay cruising on the slower bumps but still plenty of speed to keep up with the bumps when needed. The speed of this wing matches perfectly with the slower bumps on lighter days.

Everyone's hobby perception is a little different. 30 would be excessive for most people I expect. Having a few different rides and experiences to choose from is fun. It mixes things up a bit and TBH there's a lot to be learned from riding MA, HA, UHA aspect foils a bit here and there. Plus, some people just really want to pick the perfect kit each day.

For progression, I think having a full quiver of one type of foil is really nice. Every size from the smallest to largest you can possibly imagine using makes it so that when the opportunity arises, you've got the right stuff.

Need, though? I just need 1 setup that I fully understand. 2 is preferred but I can get by with 1 and have fun every day.

The best way to not get stuck with foil gear is to always sell your favorite foil and replace it with something brand new. It sucks to say goodbye to your best friend but if you really are stressed about stuff piling up its best to sell it while you still love it because if it's your fav, then it's valuable to someone else as well.

Agree totally I have one tow/boogie board setup Flitelab Raw 4 4 with Flux 707 and one board Smik 6 "The Jack" AFS 900 enduro for wang. I have an Enduro 1100 as a last case option for light wind small bumps. No mast swaps or foil swaps. All fits in the troopy at once.

Thanks for all the answers

For me riding bumps surf style is best when your foil is only a little faster than the fun bumps but with enough glide and pump to transition the flatter sections without too much work. 12 to 15 knot bumps = Fone eagle x 1000 and 3.6 parawing
15 to 20 knots = Fone eagle x 900 and 3m parawing.
20 to 25 knots = Fone eagle x 800 and 2.4 parawing.

The above is if the swell is minimal but if the swell is interacting well I would go one size down on all the above and use my 700 eagle x in the last category.

The above categories give me the best chance of being on the right foil for matching the turns to the bumps.

Prone one extra foil and tow one extra foil. Six foils and two tails is a bit luxurious and I could do it with 5 by getting rid of the 700. X if I had to.

if I was still paddling dw just two foils for dw would do.

First, in downwind, parawind, or surf, you can't really adjust power the way you do in winging. You don't have a wing to play with - the foil is the main variable, so it naturally becomes much more important.

In winging, for example, you can ride the same foil and simply switch from a 4 m to a 5 m wing when going lightwind. In pure downwind, you'd instead switch from something like an 800 foil to a 1000 foil. That's the first key difference.

The second point is that most downwinders don't only downwind. They're often also wingers, surfers, and now increasingly parawinders. Each of these disciplines has different requirements, and therefore calls for different types of foils.

Another important observation: even when riders own multiple foils, in practice - especially in downwind - people tend to gravitate toward one main foil, or maybe two sizes.
Even if someone owns a full quiver, they usually end up riding the same foil 80% of the time.

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AnyBoard said..
For me riding bumps surf style is best when your foil is only a little faster than the fun bumps but with enough glide and pump to transition the flatter sections without too much work. 12 to 15 knot bumps = Fone eagle x 1000 and 3.6 parawing
15 to 20 knots = Fone eagle x 900 and 3m parawing.
20 to 25 knots = Fone eagle x 800 and 2.4 parawing.

The above is if the swell is minimal but if the swell is interacting well I would go one size down on all the above and use my 700 eagle x in the last category.

The above categories give me the best chance of being on the right foil for matching the turns to the bumps.

Prone one extra foil and tow one extra foil. Six foils and two tails is a bit luxurious and I could do it with 5 by getting rid of the 700. X if I had to.

if I was still paddling dw just two foils for dw would do.

Agreed above, 3 ish fronts to match conditions, 2-3 tails to match swell conditions / how messy the bumps are - although i only use two para sizes - but 3 would be ideal.

Add in Ha versus MA foils to - so i might by lying about only 3 fronts

Ok thats also interesting. I come from winging so never really cared about size of foils, just took the 600 and pumped like a dumbass everytime it worked I could fly and be comfortable in waves no matter the size. ..
but as you said once parawinging or "downwinding" I could not adjust power, yesterday I was just overfoiled with 1040 for 90% of the session and hated it. I think I might buy something around 800 with glide for great conditions. Need to get better first.
Thanks for the answers

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AnyBoard said..
For me riding bumps surf style is best when your foil is only a little faster than the fun bumps but with enough glide and pump to transition the flatter sections without too much work. 12 to 15 knot bumps = Fone eagle x 1000 and 3.6 parawing
15 to 20 knots = Fone eagle x 900 and 3m parawing.
20 to 25 knots = Fone eagle x 800 and 2.4 parawing.

The above is if the swell is minimal but if the swell is interacting well I would go one size down on all the above and use my 700 eagle x in the last category.

The above categories give me the best chance of being on the right foil for matching the turns to the bumps.

Prone one extra foil and tow one extra foil. Six foils and two tails is a bit luxurious and I could do it with 5 by getting rid of the 700. X if I had to.

if I was still paddling dw just two foils for dw would do.

what size and shape board are you using in all those conditions

Too rich for my blood! I'll stick to prone with my one board, two fronts and one tail!

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JY77 said..

AnyBoard said..
For me riding bumps surf style is best when your foil is only a little faster than the fun bumps but with enough glide and pump to transition the flatter sections without too much work. 12 to 15 knot bumps = Fone eagle x 1000 and 3.6 parawing
15 to 20 knots = Fone eagle x 900 and 3m parawing.
20 to 25 knots = Fone eagle x 800 and 2.4 parawing.

The above is if the swell is minimal but if the swell is interacting well I would go one size down on all the above and use my 700 eagle x in the last category.

The above categories give me the best chance of being on the right foil for matching the turns to the bumps.

Prone one extra foil and tow one extra foil. Six foils and two tails is a bit luxurious and I could do it with 5 by getting rid of the 700. X if I had to.

if I was still paddling dw just two foils for dw would do.

what size and shape board are you using in all those conditions

Armstrong 75l Midlength. There are probably better options now that weigh a lot less.

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TooMuchEpoxy said..
Too rich for my blood! I'll stick to prone with my one board, two fronts and one tail!

Depends where you live but where i am, in non winter months, the best chance of getting in the ocean without electricity is still short board surfing and followed closely by wind disciplines. If you waited for the surf to get small enough, to paddle in prone, with favorable wind direction, you wouldn't be getting wet too often. With the parawing I am getting my prone fix and some. As i only do one thing a day i quite often forgo a surf to chase the wind later.

Average
2 days per week surfing.
3.5 days parawing
.5 days wing
.5 days prone.

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AnyBoard said..

TooMuchEpoxy said..
Too rich for my blood! I'll stick to prone with my one board, two fronts and one tail!

Depends where you live but where i am, in non winter months, the best chance of getting in the ocean without electricity is still short board surfing and followed closely by wind disciplines. If you waited for the surf to get small enough, to paddle in prone, with favorable wind direction, you wouldn't be getting wet too often. With the parawing I am getting my prone fix and some. As i only do one thing a day i quite often forgo a surf to chase the wind later.

Average
2 days per week surfing.
3.5 days parawing
.5 days wing
.5 days prone.

I should add that 50% of my foils were purchased second hand over the last 3 years. It helps financially when you can trust a brand and don't have to switch all the time.

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Average
2 days per week surfing.
3.5 days parawing
.5 days wing
.5 days prone.

Looks like there is a half day wasted there?

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CH3MTR4IL5 said..

Average
2 days per week surfing.
3.5 days parawing
.5 days wing
.5 days prone.

Looks like there is a half day wasted there?

I need recovery time!!

Will foil design and shape ever plateau ?

They are effectively a wing which have been used on aeroplanes for over 100 years, so when do the improvement become incremental only ?

Probably will plateau, but the marketing will not.

Next years red coloured foil is faster than last years black coloured foil.

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normster said..
Will foil design and shape ever plateau ?

They are effectively a wing which have been used on aeroplanes for over 100 years, so when do the improvement become incremental only ?

I think foil profiles are every well understood now. Exponential change is well and truly over. Next phase will be in material - carbon layups etc improvements. and whatever else AI comes up with that we can't fathom yet.

My daily driver is a army ha880 but i also have ma690, ha1080 and apf1350cm2 and this covers a big range of conditions and disciplines. i cant see reducing this down in number but if i had to just use just one it would be a ha880. Bigger surf would be a problem but you would need to pick and choose the waves.but why compromise?