Same-session test looking only at one thing: how each wing packs, collapses, handles line management, and unpacks. Some very clear differences between the two.
Results? Let's just say one of them makes your life a lot easier.

one is much lower aspect - plus his pack down technique for the pocket rocket is not suitable for that design. But yeh higher aspect, longer bridles, More stiff learning edge and battens - not really a fair comparison but the basic issues are sound. All i am saying is one can no miss these issues with a better pack down method that suites the different build structure of each para

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eppo said..
one is much lower aspect - plus his pack down technique for the pocket rocket is not suitable for that design. But yeh higher aspect, longer bridles, More stiff learning edge and battens - not really a fair comparison but the basic issues are sound. All i am saying is one can no miss these issues with a better pack down method that suites the different build structure of each para

How many times have you redeployed?

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eppo said..
one is much lower aspect - plus his pack down technique for the pocket rocket is not suitable for that design. But yeh higher aspect, longer bridles, More stiff learning edge and battens - not really a fair comparison but the basic issues are sound. All i am saying is one can no miss these issues with a better pack down method that suites the different build structure of each para

Agree. You have to collapse it differently too. Depends on what you want.Why doesn't he compare to v2?

For sure you have to adapt the packing to each model, but that bulge in the leading edge is something I see in almost every video with the PR. And honestly, it's super annoying, it makes the wing twist the moment you're not going perfectly downwind. And the lines. I still can't understand why they chose that material. I can't find a single good reason for it. They are so propensed to wrap around things...

OMG what are you doing to that pocket rocket. I would get at least 9 out of 10 redeploy success with the pocket rocket.

I didn't know anyone could fly the gong well enough upwind to even get to the stage of a pack down attempt.

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AnyBoard said..
OMG what are you doing to that pocket rocket. I would get at least 9 out of 10 redeploy success with the pocket rocket.

I didn't know anyone could fly the gong well enough upwind to even get to the stage of a pack down attempt.

I would smoke you on an upw/dw with any PW of your choice..

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hilly said..

eppo said..
one is much lower aspect - plus his pack down technique for the pocket rocket is not suitable for that design. But yeh higher aspect, longer bridles, More stiff learning edge and battens - not really a fair comparison but the basic issues are sound. All i am saying is one can no miss these issues with a better pack down method that suites the different build structure of each para

How many times have you redeployed?

6 today basically shot upwind to help along the crew still learning to paddle - turned a 10km run into 19km was fun as

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eppo said..

hilly said..

eppo said..
one is much lower aspect - plus his pack down technique for the pocket rocket is not suitable for that design. But yeh higher aspect, longer bridles, More stiff learning edge and battens - not really a fair comparison but the basic issues are sound. All i am saying is one can no miss these issues with a better pack down method that suites the different build structure of each para

How many times have you redeployed?

6 today basically shot upwind to help along the crew still learning to paddle - turned a 10km run into 19km was fun as

Well done buddy. Had a great pwing with Guy down here did 45k upwind/downwind

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hilly said..

eppo said..

hilly said..

eppo said..
one is much lower aspect - plus his pack down technique for the pocket rocket is not suitable for that design. But yeh higher aspect, longer bridles, More stiff learning edge and battens - not really a fair comparison but the basic issues are sound. All i am saying is one can no miss these issues with a better pack down method that suites the different build structure of each para

How many times have you redeployed?

6 today basically shot upwind to help along the crew still learning to paddle - turned a 10km run into 19km was fun as

Well done buddy. Had a great pwing with Guy down here did 45k upwind/downwind

Guy still down there - he loves margs. Yeh i believe you wouldn't take long to rack up 45km on a full upwind / downwind in situ run.

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scheggia said..

AnyBoard said..
OMG what are you doing to that pocket rocket. I would get at least 9 out of 10 redeploy success with the pocket rocket.

I didn't know anyone could fly the gong well enough upwind to even get to the stage of a pack down attempt.

I would smoke you on an upw/dw with any PW of your choice..

Well done mate but i do it for fun and i come here to help and learn. After 70 odd sessions i have sold my DW SUPs and am loving the sport. If you want to smoke anyone you'd better improve those angles and get rid of that DW board.

There is always someone better but I know more than enough that both your videos of the pocket rocket vs the gong are disingenuous.
So many little things to notice in those videos. The Gong PW made early adopters think the sport wasn't even going to be a thing. The ozone and flow made people see what was possible with so little time on them.

I would hate to think your videos encouraged people to spend their hard earned cash only to be disappointed. This is why I commented.

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AnyBoard said..

scheggia said..

AnyBoard said..
OMG what are you doing to that pocket rocket. I would get at least 9 out of 10 redeploy success with the pocket rocket.

I didn't know anyone could fly the gong well enough upwind to even get to the stage of a pack down attempt.

I would smoke you on an upw/dw with any PW of your choice..

Well done mate but i do it for fun and i come here to help and learn. After 70 odd sessions i have sold my DW SUPs and am loving the sport. If you want to smoke anyone you'd better improve those angles and get rid of that DW board.

There is always someone better but I know more than enough that both your videos of the pocket rocket vs the gong are disingenuous.
So many little things to notice in those videos. The Gong PW made early adopters think the sport wasn't even going to be a thing. The ozone and flow made people see what was possible with so little time on them.

I would hate to think your videos encouraged people to spend their hard earned cash only to be disappointed. This is why I commented.

Well said, so many people focussing on the negatives and not the positives of a wing, the Ozone was THE BEST first wing too market without a doubt !!

I got a gong neutral V1 3mt, hated it at first, would collapse, spin itself into a bird's nest, do all sorts of weird ****, I wrote it off and was gonna sell it, then after a couple of sessions I found it's sweet spot. Ive learnt how to ride with it and know where it's limitations are. I really enjoy it now and can swap between my flow D wing and the gong with no real worries. I guess you can ride anything and get good on it if you put in effort and time. I agree the gong packs down quicker and easier than the flow.
Flow more stable overall and bit better upwind but not hugely.
Gong definitely not a waste of money, actually is a cheap way to try out parawing, it will also force you much needed extra skills and make you appreciate everything about your next parawing purchase...

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Wingman WA said..

Well said, so many people focussing on the negatives and not the positives of a wing, the Ozone was THE BEST first wing too market without a doubt !

Have you got shares in them

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hilly said..

Wingman WA said..

Well said, so many people focussing on the negatives and not the positives of a wing, the Ozone was THE BEST first wing too market without a doubt !

Have you got shares in them

I wish !!Just hate people bagging out what was the first usable wing, so the lines are soft and long, deal with it.We all know that the best gear is obviously what your riding mate

Can't wait to see what the new ozone para is like and the hatch from naish. this is a bloody fast moving space.

Flow D wing was probs the first okay para, Ozone PR was a quantum jump and others (incl ozone) are refining this leap.

Bottom line - how sick is the sport! My Paddle gathers dust ..

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eppo said..
Can't wait to see what the new ozone para is like and the hatch from naish. this is a bloody fast moving space.

Flow D wing was probs the first okay para, Ozone PR was a quantum jump and others (incl ozone) are refining this leap.

Bottom line - how sick is the sport! My Paddle gathers dust ..

If Flow had not stuffed up their bridle they would be still up there. If you get a good one they fly well.

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AnyBoard said..

scheggia said..

AnyBoard said..
OMG what are you doing to that pocket rocket. I would get at least 9 out of 10 redeploy success with the pocket rocket.

I didn't know anyone could fly the gong well enough upwind to even get to the stage of a pack down attempt.

I would smoke you on an upw/dw with any PW of your choice..

Hey mate, it was just a joke. That's the internet - you don't know who I am and I don't know who you are. you could be one of the best kite-foilers in the world for all I know ??But honestly, believe it or not, I'm not sponsored by anyone. I'm just a "poor" southern European who tries whatever he can get his hands on without spending a fortune. That time has passed for me too. I was a pretty high-level sailor back in the day, but now I just enjoy being in the water more than ever with anything foiling-related.I paid full price for the Gong, simply because it was one of the first we could buy in Europe, and it was incredibly cheap. I learned to fly it and enjoyed it a lot. When I finally had the chance to try the Pocket Rocket, I really expected a game changer - and to be fair, the build is on a completely different level: lighter, stiffer, more refined in every way. But sincerely, once I got in the water, I didn't feel that "game-changer" moment. It's definitely better in flight and handling, but after 2-3 sessions I realised I could pretty much do the same with both PWs. and one costs half the price of the other. So I decided not to buy the PR.Now, don't get me wrong - if I had money to throw away, I'd happily buy a PR or two, a Frigate, and a 777 just for the fun of trying new things.Just to give you context: when I first tried the Code R series, that was game-changing. I was on the ART Pro, and on the very first day I was paddling up smaller foils, noticeably faster and more efficiently. I went straight to the retailer and bought a Code kit. That's exactly the kind of difference I was expecting from the PR - and I just didn't feel it.

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scheggia said..and I just didn't feel it.

That's the key. If it works for you then embrace it if not move on.

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eppo said..
Can't wait to see what the new ozone para is like and the hatch from naish. this is a bloody fast moving space.

Flow D wing was probs the first okay para, Ozone PR was a quantum jump and others (incl ozone) are refining this leap.

Bottom line - how sick is the sport! My Paddle gathers dust ..

Me too, Ozone cranks upwind and is so stable but man those lines are like barb wire running your hands up and they do lIke to stick to things.

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Shlogger said..

Me too, Ozone cranks upwind and is so stable but man those lines are like barb wire running your hands up and they do lIke to stick to things.

Interesting. I feel like the Ozone lines are buttery smooth. I'm out doing 80km upwind downwind sessions over a 10km stretch and my hands never notice the lines.

I don't notice the line sharpness in the lines either, but I tend to depower pretty aggressively before stowing anyways. The long lines on the 4.3 Pocket Rocket bothered me, but I shortened them ~9" and while its still early days, it seems to have helped a lot with stow/redeploy and no discernable impact on how it flies. Might lose a tiny bit on the upwind, but I'd have to measure to know for sure and the tradeoff seems to be working for me.

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hilly said..

eppo said..
Can't wait to see what the new ozone para is like and the hatch from naish. this is a bloody fast moving space.

Flow D wing was probs the first okay para, Ozone PR was a quantum jump and others (incl ozone) are refining this leap.

Bottom line - how sick is the sport! My Paddle gathers dust ..

If Flow had not stuffed up their bridle they would be still up there. If you get a good one they fly well.

Nah I have two good Flow D wings - no comparison to the ozone PR in flight - but they are bringing out a V2 which should be awesome.

....

Ozone lines like barbed wire? .. I'd say the opposite - they are too damn soft.

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eppo said..

hilly said..

eppo said..
Can't wait to see what the new ozone para is like and the hatch from naish. this is a bloody fast moving space.

Flow D wing was probs the first okay para, Ozone PR was a quantum jump and others (incl ozone) are refining this leap.

Bottom line - how sick is the sport! My Paddle gathers dust ..

If Flow had not stuffed up their bridle they would be still up there. If you get a good one they fly well.

Nah I have two good Flow D wings - no comparison to the ozone PR in flight - but they are bringing out a V2 which should be awesome.

....

Ozone lines like barbed wire? .. I'd say the opposite - they are too damn soft.

With a good depower they felt fine to me but w an imperfect one I found them a little abrasive w the long length, especially when I have to do a double tug w the 5M. I've tried some others that were much smoother but then they didn't have the performance of the Ozone. As someone said above, this sport is evolving quickly, as we work our way forward.

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eppo said..

hilly said..

eppo said..
Can't wait to see what the new ozone para is like and the hatch from naish. this is a bloody fast moving space.

Flow D wing was probs the first okay para, Ozone PR was a quantum jump and others (incl ozone) are refining this leap.

Bottom line - how sick is the sport! My Paddle gathers dust ..

If Flow had not stuffed up their bridle they would be still up there. If you get a good one they fly well.

Nah I have two good Flow D wings - no comparison to the ozone PR in flight - but they are bringing out a V2 which should be awesome.

....

Ozone lines like barbed wire? .. I'd say the opposite - they are too damn soft.

I felt them really soft.... so soft that they love to stick and tangle to things....

Select to expand quote

scheggia said..

eppo said..

hilly said..

eppo said..
Can't wait to see what the new ozone para is like and the hatch from naish. this is a bloody fast moving space.

Flow D wing was probs the first okay para, Ozone PR was a quantum jump and others (incl ozone) are refining this leap.

Bottom line - how sick is the sport! My Paddle gathers dust ..

If Flow had not stuffed up their bridle they would be still up there. If you get a good one they fly well.

Nah I have two good Flow D wings - no comparison to the ozone PR in flight - but they are bringing out a V2 which should be awesome.

....

Ozone lines like barbed wire? .. I'd say the opposite - they are too damn soft.

I felt them really soft.... so soft that they love to stick and tangle to things....

Can't argue with that - all true. But you learn to pack down properly and i'm getting near to 100 percent deploy success now after pack down and stashing in the pouch. Like anything learn to use your gear. But man it's good to able to track back upwind to join fellow paddlers and parawing crew coming downwind to ride with them. This sport will take over this space man no doubt.

4 hours today. 80km. No tangles.

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BWalnut said..
4 hours today. 80km. No tangles.

Legs of steel man. Great effort.
low 40's is my limit. My poor old legs just burn from all the carving. It hurts more than pumping on the DW sup.

Are you still doing the same pack technique as your video? I have started just grabbing the 4 centre lines again and quickly going for a second take with my pinky to get the last two outside front A lines to remove the cinch step. It seems to be working better on my 3.6 and just cinch on the 2.4 and 3 as its easy.

How far are you surfing DW each time? I seem to sit between 1.5 and 3.5k.

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eppo said..

scheggia said..

eppo said..

hilly said..

eppo said..
Can't wait to see what the new ozone para is like and the hatch from naish. this is a bloody fast moving space.

Flow D wing was probs the first okay para, Ozone PR was a quantum jump and others (incl ozone) are refining this leap.

Bottom line - how sick is the sport! My Paddle gathers dust ..

If Flow had not stuffed up their bridle they would be still up there. If you get a good one they fly well.

Nah I have two good Flow D wings - no comparison to the ozone PR in flight - but they are bringing out a V2 which should be awesome.

....

Ozone lines like barbed wire? .. I'd say the opposite - they are too damn soft.

I felt them really soft.... so soft that they love to stick and tangle to things....

Can't argue with that - all true. But you learn to pack down properly and i'm getting near to 100 percent deploy success now after pack down and stashing in the pouch. Like anything learn to use your gear. But man it's good to able to track back upwind to join fellow paddlers and parawing crew coming downwind to ride with them. This sport will take over this space man no doubt.

So much less stress leading up to the session now than SUP DW. More relaxed, lower heart rate but much sorer legs. Great to be able to share some sections with other foilers. For me its like foiling found its ultimate destiny. What a time to be foiling DW.

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scheggia said..

AnyBoard said..

scheggia said..

AnyBoard said..
OMG what are you doing to that pocket rocket. I would get at least 9 out of 10 redeploy success with the pocket rocket.

I didn't know anyone could fly the gong well enough upwind to even get to the stage of a pack down attempt.

I would smoke you on an upw/dw with any PW of your choice..

Hey mate, it was just a joke. That's the internet - you don't know who I am and I don't know who you are. you could be one of the best kite-foilers in the world for all I know ??But honestly, believe it or not, I'm not sponsored by anyone. I'm just a "poor" southern European who tries whatever he can get his hands on without spending a fortune. That time has passed for me too. I was a pretty high-level sailor back in the day, but now I just enjoy being in the water more than ever with anything foiling-related.I paid full price for the Gong, simply because it was one of the first we could buy in Europe, and it was incredibly cheap. I learned to fly it and enjoyed it a lot. When I finally had the chance to try the Pocket Rocket, I really expected a game changer - and to be fair, the build is on a completely different level: lighter, stiffer, more refined in every way. But sincerely, once I got in the water, I didn't feel that "game-changer" moment. It's definitely better in flight and handling, but after 2-3 sessions I realised I could pretty much do the same with both PWs. and one costs half the price of the other. So I decided not to buy the PR.Now, don't get me wrong - if I had money to throw away, I'd happily buy a PR or two, a Frigate, and a 777 just for the fun of trying new things.Just to give you context: when I first tried the Code R series, that was game-changing. I was on the ART Pro, and on the very first day I was paddling up smaller foils, noticeably faster and more efficiently. I went straight to the retailer and bought a Code kit. That's exactly the kind of difference I was expecting from the PR - and I just didn't feel it.

All good mate. At least your on an aussie foil.

Select to expand quote

AnyBoard said..

BWalnut said..
4 hours today. 80km. No tangles.

Legs of steel man. Great effort.
low 40's is my limit. My poor old legs just burn from all the carving. It hurts more than pumping on the DW sup.

Are you still doing the same pack technique as your video? I have started just grabbing the 4 centre lines again and quickly going for a second take with my pinky to get the last two outside front A lines to remove the cinch step. It seems to be working better on my 3.6 and just cinch on the 2.4 and 3 as its easy.

How far are you surfing DW each time? I seem to sit between 1.5 and 3.5k.

You weren't asking me but yeh i run the lines over my palm again to take all line slack up..

Then i put bar over back of leading edge and transfer those bunch up lines to that hand . (so im holding the lines, back of leading edge all in one hand.

Then constatina the leading up up to the bar - then a few on the other side

Slight twist as i grab the trailing edge fold over up the the leading edge then just some quick adjustments

In the pouch and "go you good thing".


Can normally have this done by the end of the first runner - sometimes need to pause and find a bit of power to complete.