Hi All

I currently own a 5 2 naish 2020 comet that i use for prone foil. I like the weight of this board and shape however I have outgrown it and looking to downsize (maybe hang onto it for winging).

I am now looking at a 2020 4 4 carbon naish ascend. I am wondering if anyone has any experience with this board? with the current board I have, the boxes seem a bit too far forward and judging by pictures on the internet the issue looks as bad if not worse on the 4 4 ascend.

I am only using it for prone foil with an armstrong 1250 wing.

I am also looking at the S25 4 4 prone but the boxes appear to be in approximately the same position, AND it looks as if they have put some tail rocker behind the boxes as well

Grateful for any feedback or suggestions

Hey CJ,

Firstly where do you mount your Armstrong foil on the Comet 5'2"? This will help with the advice. Mount position whilst it can be similar on a particular board from person to person, there is also some that have unique stance, riding styles etc...

Jumping from the 5'2" to the 4'4" you will likely want to ride your foil all the way back to start with anyway as you get used to the significantly smaller length.

From memory the mount position on the 2020 4'4" was further forward than the S25 which has again been moved a little further back again for S26. As more foil brands enter the market with different feels and balance to Naish foils, Naish try to cover as many bases as possible, but with a priority to suiting Naish Foils (which the boards suit perfectly).

I hope this helps a little. With the more info can possibly help more.

ride safe,

JB

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Windgenuity said..
Hey CJ,

Firstly where do you mount your Armstrong foil on the Comet 5'2"? This will help with the advice. Mount position whilst it can be similar on a particular board from person to person, there is also some that have unique stance, riding styles etc...

Jumping from the 5'2" to the 4'4" you will likely want to ride your foil all the way back to start with anyway as you get used to the significantly smaller length.

From memory the mount position on the 2020 4'4" was further forward than the S25 which has again been moved a little further back again for S26. As more foil brands enter the market with different feels and balance to Naish foils, Naish try to cover as many bases as possible, but with a priority to suiting Naish Foils (which the boards suit perfectly).

I hope this helps a little. With the more info can possibly help more.

ride safe,

JB

thanks for the advice JB.

I have tried the foil in all positions in the track but now i just bolt it down about 2/3 of the way back and find this is a great balance of pump/turn/stability for all conditions i ride. I have the setup pretty dialed and am very happy with it, just looking for a shorter board that I can pump a bit better.

My concern was that the distance from the tail to the back of boxes seems about the same between these two boards instead of it being scaled down to suit the overall length of the board. Can you comment on what is happening here?

The other factor is where the grip pad is positioned in relation to the boxes, if the tracks are in the same location then I will still have about 20cm behind the kicker on the pad which isnt being used.

Are you able to comment on how the squarish nose rides as well? do the corners every cause trouble in a touch down? this is noting that they have done away with that shape and gone back to the pointier style nose.

Thanks again
CJ

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CJ2478 said..

Windgenuity said..
Hey CJ,

Firstly where do you mount your Armstrong foil on the Comet 5'2"? This will help with the advice. Mount position whilst it can be similar on a particular board from person to person, there is also some that have unique stance, riding styles etc...

Jumping from the 5'2" to the 4'4" you will likely want to ride your foil all the way back to start with anyway as you get used to the significantly smaller length.

From memory the mount position on the 2020 4'4" was further forward than the S25 which has again been moved a little further back again for S26. As more foil brands enter the market with different feels and balance to Naish foils, Naish try to cover as many bases as possible, but with a priority to suiting Naish Foils (which the boards suit perfectly).

I hope this helps a little. With the more info can possibly help more.

ride safe,

JB

thanks for the advice JB.

I have tried the foil in all positions in the track but now i just bolt it down about 2/3 of the way back and find this is a great balance of pump/turn/stability for all conditions i ride. I have the setup pretty dialed and am very happy with it, just looking for a shorter board that I can pump a bit better.

My concern was that the distance from the tail to the back of boxes seems about the same between these two boards instead of it being scaled down to suit the overall length of the board. Can you comment on what is happening here?

The other factor is where the grip pad is positioned in relation to the boxes, if the tracks are in the same location then I will still have about 20cm behind the kicker on the pad which isnt being used.

Are you able to comment on how the squarish nose rides as well? do the corners every cause trouble in a touch down? this is noting that they have done away with that shape and gone back to the pointier style nose.

Thanks again
CJ

Hey CJ,

At 2/3 back in the boxes, this gives you approx. 1 more inch of rear adjustment (roughly). Without 100% knowing the ideal back foot position on the Armstrong it is tricky to say in regards to the tail pad, as this needs to be reflective of your ideal back foot position. On my prone boards I set the tail pad so that when the foil is fully back, my back foots arch is over the trailing edge of the mast. This is generally as far back as you would want your back foot on a Naish foil. Setting the tail pad here generally gives you all the options. On the 4'4'" you will likely want to ride it all the way back, at least at first anyway. Does the Armstrong plate give you multiple mounting holes, if so use the forward back holes to allow you to get the foil further back to start with. Once you get used to the smaller board, you'll become greedy and want more lift, and likely go a little forward.

The square corners will not affect your ride at all, they do give you a substantial boost in paddle speed though as you need to lie all the way forward on the 4'4" at first, I nearly look like I am bodyboarding it (I am 6'2" and 90kg) I am so far forward when I paddle it. Touchdowns are not an issue. You need to be doing some pretty serious turns if you think the width of a prone board are affecting your turns. Simply fly a few cm higher.

Personally I do not find any of the board have their mount tracks too far forward, if anything I'd prefer further forward positions be available. But I ride Naish Foils and am on the larger side of rider. I know AXIS like to be mounted further back than Naish, as mentioned not sure about Armstrong, but I believe their front wing is further forward of the mast like AXIS (maybe not quite as much).

You can always just sell your Armstrong foil and buy a Naish one .

Ride safe,

JB

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Windgenuity said..
As more foil brands enter the market with different feels and balance to Naish foils, Naish try to cover as many bases as possible, but with a priority to suiting Naish Foils (which the boards suit perfectly.

Count me as a newbie who nearly left wingfoiling altogether because of this approach by Naish. It took a long time to figure out why my Axis foil was continually trying to smack me in the face and I couldn't find any help on forums. Eventually I took a drill to the mast base to gain more rearward adjustment, shimmed the hell out of my stabiliser and I managed to make it work.
I like the look of the 2021 Naish boards but after my experience I can't imagine buying another.

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything but do you buy a Ford front end and expect it to go into your Holden?

All the gear is different. I'm a newbie too and had the exact opposite with my Fanatic board and F-one foil. I'm all the way at the front of the track and could still go more. I don't blame Fanatic or F-one though, it's just what it takes to match dissimilar gear...

I'm with Jethrow.
Don't buy Honda parts for your Toyota.

This would be so much easier if:

-Foil manufacturers published Center of Pressure position for their foils relative to mast screws position.

-Board manufacturers published recommended Center of Pressure foil position for their boards relative to foil box range.

Sounds complicated but it is not, it's just easier to not do it and try to sell the whole package.

We are in V3 gear stage, issues like this should not be happening anymore.

I think the main reason is that the gear is selling faster than they can churn it out of the factory, so no pressure.

Another good option would be to break free from the 10inch standard longboard finbox and start using dedicated foil boxes.
Something like 15 inch tracks ,solidly jointed both to each other and to the board deck.

Ford? Holden?
How would a newbie know not to buy an Axis, GoFoil or Lift setup when there is so much coverage of them? And why wouldn't you when there's so little positive coverage of eg Naish foils compared to those ones that I mentioned? Naish foils may be perfectly fine but all the raving is done by fans of other companies.
I think that board manufacturers who are off in their own universe will eventually move to standards such as, OMG, dual tracks for masts. Those who don't will just lose sales unless they are clearly better than the rest.

Id want to see extra long tracks from board suppliers. Like at least 1.5 times as long (or even 2 standard tracks next to each other). Enough adjustment for any foil.

The new Naish boards have now got longer tracks to accommodate more of the other brand foils.. Even within the same brand of foil adjustment is needed for different size foils and different wind conditions..

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DavidJohn said..
The new Naish boards have now got longer tracks to accommodate more of the other brand foils.. Even within the same brand of foil adjustment is needed for different size foils and different wind conditions..

I may be wrong but I think they are just 10" which is shorter than the Futures tracks. It also look like they are using the cheap chinese knock off tracks that are not the molded ones but a 2 pieces track that are glued together (unlike futures or chinook). A shame for a manufacturer with a long history of making windsurfing boards. Would not trust that set up to mount a $2K+ foil that is for sure.

I would trust it.. I'd trust it 100%
The Naish boards sold are the same (off the shelf) boards that Robby uses and you can see by his vids how much he punishes them.

The boxes are mounted in a very large high density foam block and they are tested vigorously before going into production.. I've never heard of one failing.

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Livit said..

DavidJohn said..
The new Naish boards have now got longer tracks to accommodate more of the other brand foils.. Even within the same brand of foil adjustment is needed for different size foils and different wind conditions..

I may be wrong but I think they are just 10" which is shorter than the Futures tracks. It also look like they are using the cheap chinese knock off tracks that are not the molded ones but a 2 pieces track that are glued together (unlike futures or chinook). A shame for a manufacturer with a long history of making windsurfing boards. Would not trust that set up to mount a $2K+ foil that is for sure.

I have been riding an S25 Ultra 85l Naish for almost a year.Wing and some prone.
Boxes are just fine, i have no complaints whatsoever about the boards shape or construction.Quite the opposite,they are superb boards IMHO.

My niggle is not directed at Naish in particular but at the whole industry.
People are going to mix and match gear,just like they do in windsurfing or kiting.
Steps can be taken so customers do not paint themselves into corners.
More setup range info on foils&boards, longer tracks etc...

I really like your idea, but i,m afraid there is also a lot of personal preferences in foil position, so that position isn't as absolute as lets say a mastcurve with windsurf.
To make every board/foil combo compatible you probably gonna need rails long enough to put a train on it to accommodate every designer with its owns ideas.

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Jeroensurf said..
I really like your idea, but i,m afraid there is also a lot of personal preferences in foil position, so that position isn't as absolute as lets say a mastcurve with windsurf.
To make every board/foil combo compatible you probably gonna need rails long enough to put a train on it to accommodate every designer with its owns ideas.

Manufacturers publish recommended wind range charts for wings, and temperature charts for wetsuits for example.

I'd say that is very subjective too,but it does give you an idea of what you are getting.

And i agree that boards cannot be compatible with every foil on the market,we just need to know if they are not compatible before spending the money.

OK this has made my decision harder..

I am looking for a definitive answer from anyone with either a 2020 or 2021 S25 4 4 prone board. are you able to measure the distance from the tail to the back of the boxes?

Does the S25 have tail rocker behind the boxes? I am hoping the boxes themselves are flat.....

Ideally someone has expereince with an armstrong foil on one of the shorter naish prone boards

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CJ2478 said..
OK this has made my decision harder..

I am looking for a definitive answer from anyone with either a 2020 or 2021 S25 4 4 prone board. are you able to measure the distance from the tail to the back of the boxes?

Does the S25 have tail rocker behind the boxes? I am hoping the boxes themselves are flat.....

Ideally someone has expereince with an armstrong foil on one of the shorter naish prone boards

Hi CJ,

Here are some quick measurements from my S25 Ascend 4'4 for reference:

Back of the track to the tail measures at 20.5cm.

Front of the tracks to the tail of the board is 46cm.

The texter markings show where I generally mount a Naish 1240HA - roughly 1cm back from the centre of the tracks.

The foil tracks are flat as with all of our current boards, sitting inside one solid block of deck to bottom of high density foam. Approximately 1 inch back from the tracks the tail kicks up.

I can not comment on an Armstrong foil paired with this board.

Hope this helps!

Matt