sabfoil.com/en/news/kraken-modular-system

Looks great.

Not sure why SAB recycled the name Kraken, they used the name already in other product line .

such a good concept of one mast for all sports. We did a Zoom meeting with Jimmy on Thursday showing us some of the new gear. Very exciting.
The new system allows us to do demo for kite, windsurf and wing all on the one mast and using the Kraken quick release makes it take seconds not minutes to change. ??
DM

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ActionSportsWA said..
such a good concept of one mast for all sports. We did a Zoom meeting with Jimmy on Thursday showing us some of the new gear. Very exciting.
The new system allows us to do demo for kite, windsurf and wing all on the one mast and using the Kraken quick release makes it take seconds not minutes to change. ??
DM

When will they be in the shop DM?

I cannot understand Sabfoil going with this quick release system. It's all unnecessary added complexity.
Lots of aluminium parts you have to tefgel and look after so realistically leaving the plate permanently connected to the board is not a good idea.
What is the percentage of people that still use tuttle ? With wing and prone foiling exploding all over the world the market for dual tracks has to be at least if not more than 95% Wind foilers that use tuttle don't really jump, besides Balz.

I wished Sabfoil would just make a v2 of the M92 mast and make it stiffer and with the quick slot on the plate instead of 6 holes for the screws, the current M92 flexes horribly despite being one of the heaviest carbon masts on the market. That's why people are investing into the Cedrus mast, despite the added thickness & drag.

Also a shame there's a 10cm gap between 83 and 93cm. The most popular and ideal size for masts for wing foiling seems to be around 85/86cm. And yes I do notice a difference of 2cm

The only benefit is the new fuse sizes, especially the shorter kite fuse. It just really sucks it needs a Kraken mast...

Hi Peeps,

@Duke Just placed our order, should have the new gear by about the end of the month.

@Alysum The tuttle adapter is mainly for windsurfing boards. SABfoil is super strong in windfoil racing and most of these boards use Tuttle, Kitefoil race still all use Tuttle. For us as a retailer having to carry Tuttle wind foil masts and masts for everything else is expensive especially when most people expect to demo high end gear prior to purchase.

Last year, SABFoil invested in several brand new, high end CNC milling machines for their new factory, and will now be making their new moulds from blocks of aluminium rather than composite moulds. This allows more pressure to be applied and more heat resulting in a much lighter, much stronger and more efficient shape for better performance through the water. The new masts will be lighter, stronger and stiffer. Their ability to be able to go from concept, to mould and pressing out finished product will now be more like 10 days instead of months. Their ability to produce better quality in much higher volumes will make a massive difference to supply and end user satisfaction.

We're super excited after the presentation we watched. SABFoil is going next level. Jimmy's passion for foiling is incredible, and his desire to supply the best product available is super cool.

We wont have long to wait to see how much is hype, and how much is fact. Bring it on I reckon, any progression in foiling can only be a good thing.

DM

I do understand that it is for shops way easier to have the kraken system instead of 2 different and expensive systems, but to solve that, as a wingfoiler I have to buy an over complexed system with the QR thing that I don,t need/want. So it makes me wonder who Sab see as customers: the shop or the end-user?I do like the progress in stiffness and performance, but if you invest an sh#tkload of money in a system its a bit of an disappointment that within a few months it is outdated and finding compatible replacement parts gonna be a struggle in the near future. And of course when buying a new system this isn't a problem, but if something happens to my current 9 month old 82cm mast I need to replace my 2 fuses as well because the don,t fit the new Kraken system....
Have a look at hook at how Go-foil woks: The latest foils still fit there very first masts. The Armstrong Anonymous Alcolholist + system is too complex IMO with all there bolts if you need to take your gear often apart, but it is still interchangeable with the "older" gear. That Sab didnt make it interchangable with the old fuses is my biggest issue.

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Jeroensurf said..
The Armstrong Anonymous Alcolholist + system is too complex IMO with all there bolts if you need to take your gear often apart, but it is still interchangeable with the "older" gear. That Sab didnt make it interchangable with the old fuses is my biggest issue.

That is not correct, with the HA Armstrong stuff you need to upgrade to a new A+ fuse.

Each system has it pro and cons.

They sure do have ballsy marketing with the "unbreakable" claim, some people are gonna see that as a challenge

just ordered a Project Cedrus mast at 92,5cm for better stiffness and wheight at this lenght (M92 is extremelly heavy).
I guess he will soon make a kraken adapter :-)

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marco said..

Jeroensurf said..
The Armstrong Anonymous Alcolholist + system is too complex IMO with all there bolts if you need to take your gear often apart, but it is still interchangeable with the "older" gear. That Sab didnt make it interchangable with the old fuses is my biggest issue.

That is not correct, with the HA Armstrong stuff you need to upgrade to a new A+ fuse.

Each system has it pro and cons.

Wasnt there an drill/upgrade set to make from the normal set an A+@Frankieboy, I went the same route and waiting for an Cedrus. Main reason for me wasn't the weight but the ability to try different brand foils on it as well.

The now superseded Moses foil system is a carry over from kitefoil where wing areas were 1000sqcm max. As years past and winging exploded onto the scene, front wings are now closer to 2000sqcm.
You would have to have access to the sales data to see which sports are doing the best, but my guess is winging is way above kitefoil and windfoil at present so maybe this is the direction they are heading. Just look at the Slingshot Phantasm, overly built for kitefoil, but impressive for winging.
Moses used to offer kitefoil racing foils, but with the this new bulkier fuselage they are out of this market for good. It's a logical progression to make one foil mast suit all sports, but does mean it may not be the best for all sports.

Rumour is another large brand is also changing its mast to fuselage attach system, the old M6 hardware in this location will be a thing of the past for most brands.

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Jeroensurf said..

marco said..

Jeroensurf said..
The Armstrong Anonymous Alcolholist + system is too complex IMO with all there bolts if you need to take your gear often apart, but it is still interchangeable with the "older" gear. That Sab didnt make it interchangable with the old fuses is my biggest issue.

That is not correct, with the HA Armstrong stuff you need to upgrade to a new A+ fuse.

Each system has it pro and cons.

Wasnt there an drill/upgrade set to make from the normal set an A+@Frankieboy, I went the same route and waiting for an Cedrus. Main reason for me wasn't the weight but the ability to try different brand foils on it as well.

we should get it shipped together, I am across the border ;-)

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marco said..

Jeroensurf said..
The Armstrong Anonymous Alcolholist + system is too complex IMO with all there bolts if you need to take your gear often apart, but it is still interchangeable with the "older" gear. That Sab didnt make it interchangable with the old fuses is my biggest issue.

That is not correct, with the HA Armstrong stuff you need to upgrade to a new A+ fuse.

Each system has it pro and cons.

No you don't. Can run the new armie wings on the old fuse. Many do - including myself. Completely interchangeable. Unless you want to start jumping and all that jazz then better to have the extra bolts in there

looks an interesting concept above. Be an interesting space to watch.

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Jeroensurf said..
I do understand that it is for shops way easier to have the kraken system instead of 2 different and expensive systems, but to solve that, as a wingfoiler I have to buy an over complexed system with the QR thing that I don,t need/want. So it makes me wonder who Sab see as customers: the shop or the end-user?I do like the progress in stiffness and performance, but if you invest an sh#tkload of money in a system its a bit of an disappointment that within a few months it is outdated and finding compatible replacement parts gonna be a struggle in the near future. And of course when buying a new system this isn't a problem, but if something happens to my current 9 month old 82cm mast I need to replace my 2 fuses as well because the don,t fit the new Kraken system....
Have a look at hook at how Go-foil woks: The latest foils still fit there very first masts. The Armstrong Anonymous Alcolholist + system is too complex IMO with all there bolts if you need to take your gear often apart, but it is still interchangeable with the "older" gear. That Sab didnt make it interchangable with the old fuses is my biggest issue.

The QR is an optional upgrade. Otherwise you just fix the mast to the base plate with two screws. Some will want the QR but most will not.

Agree biggest issue is incompatibility of new masts with existing fuses.. especially given the very recent release of the F700HS. Hard to understand how that happened...?

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natho6026961 said..

Jeroensurf said..
I do understand that it is for shops way easier to have the kraken system instead of 2 different and expensive systems, but to solve that, as a wingfoiler I have to buy an over complexed system with the QR thing that I don,t need/want. So it makes me wonder who Sab see as customers: the shop or the end-user?I do like the progress in stiffness and performance, but if you invest an sh#tkload of money in a system its a bit of an disappointment that within a few months it is outdated and finding compatible replacement parts gonna be a struggle in the near future. And of course when buying a new system this isn't a problem, but if something happens to my current 9 month old 82cm mast I need to replace my 2 fuses as well because the don,t fit the new Kraken system....
Have a look at hook at how Go-foil woks: The latest foils still fit there very first masts. The Armstrong Anonymous Alcolholist + system is too complex IMO with all there bolts if you need to take your gear often apart, but it is still interchangeable with the "older" gear. That Sab didnt make it interchangable with the old fuses is my biggest issue.

The QR is an optional upgrade. Otherwise you just fix the mast to the base plate with two screws. Some will want the QR but most will not.

Agree biggest issue is incompatibility of new masts with existing fuses.. especially given the very recent release of the F700HS. Hard to understand how that happened...?

According to SAB is compatible.

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airsail said..

Rumour is another large brand is also changing its mast to fuselage attach system, the old M6 hardware in this location will be a thing of the past for most brands.

any hint ?

After initial frustration concerning the lack of backward compatibilty I decided to order some of the new Kraken-system.

I don't need the quick release, but did order 2 baseplates to go with the 2 masts (63 and 83 cm). Also ordered the f703 K fuselage.
Connection of the mast and fuse is with M8. Fuse and mast also have a sacrificial anode (prevent corrosion).
The m83 mast is stiffer than the m82. Connection with the baseplate is snug and the whole feels solid. On the water (1 session with the giant w1250 front wing) the set up feel stiffer and more direct.
The f703 fuselage has a different incidence for the stabilizer compared to the f700 fuselage. the mast/fuse connection has a different footprint and is m8.

The hardware used is different (countersunk with countersunk washers).

Can't seem to edit my earlier post. Here are some pictures comparing the f703Kraken with the f700 hs.

Same chord and insert for front wing (compatible)
Same chord and inserts for stabilizers (compatible), the incidence (angle) is different says the SABfoil website.
Same distance between front wing en front of the mast

Different footprint (=mast/fuselage connection): shape / depth / placement of screws / m8 (was m6).
Screws to connect fuselage and mast are countersunk (same goes for baseplate to board), special washers are included.
Sacrificial anodes. They should prevent corrosion on other parts, by attracting the corrosion to the sacrificial anode. If that works you might want to buy a new anode in the future.

Sacrificial anodes, interesting idea. Seems they need to be submerged to work, the water provides a path for the current to flow. Foils spend most of their life out of the water, assembled in the garage or in the back of the car, I wonder if the anode will provide protection then, stopping seized screws.

The Kraken Quick release is quick indeed. I personally keep the masts connected to my wing boards most of the time, and my windsurf foil board does not even have the tuttle box, so perhaps I could live with the plate masts exclusively, and would not even need the quick release. But the new masts and the connection both with the plate and with the fuselage feel solid and trouble free. If that new system helps to lure more windsurfers into foiling then why not.

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airsail said..
Sacrificial anodes, interesting idea. Seems they need to be submerged to work, the water provides a path for the current to flow. Foils spend most of their life out of the water, assembled in the garage or in the back of the car, I wonder if the anode will provide protection then, stopping seized screws.

No this will not stop screws from seizing.

just got some Kraken stuff in... the mast to fuse connection seems very solid and doesn't loosen while riding. Masts with plate are similar weight to the old masts but seem stiffer. My 93 whistles a bit when trying to go fast on my W940. haven't tried the Quick Release yet.

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airsail said..
Sacrificial anodes, interesting idea. Seems they need to be submerged to work, the water provides a path for the current to flow. Foils spend most of their life out of the water, assembled in the garage or in the back of the car, I wonder if the anode will provide protection then, stopping seized screws.

Hi Airsail,

I believe the anodes will reduce the possibility of screw seizure. If you have used SABFoil stuff previously and added just a smear of Tefgel, you'll know that corrosion isn't really a thing anyways, but the anode will help ... especially if you don't wash your gear down thoroughly. The salt that isn't washed away retains enough moisture to be a good conductor. If you were to completely wash away all traces of salt and water, the anode will do nothing, but honestly, how many of you actually disassemble your foil completely and then wash and dry it all completely?

It's a good innovation and it would be interesting to see if other brands that are more prone to galvanic corrosion follow suit.

DM

set up the Quick Release today. works fine. feels very solid. new Kraken 93 mast is very solid.. didn't have any vent problems, and feels nice and stiff.... wish it were 1lb lighter, but it is nice. Used w/ W940 today... max 2sec 21.3kt according to water speed app on Apple Watch which isn't too shabby... not fast conditions today (or at least didn't feel like it big wind and lots of chopswell OPd on 3.5).

2sec 21.3kt
10 sec 19.4kt
20 sec 19.3kt
500m 18.0kt

W1000 definitely feels faster but don't have a Kraken 653 fuse right now. Fun dialing in the W940 which is nice but something I haven't ridden in awhile. First day was at the front of the tracks on Sky Wing 4'8" 60l.... today moved back 2cm... tomorrow will move back another 2cm so I'm in the center of the tracks.

if you want a really solid mast to adaptor connection, you can use the Quick Release pin in conjunction with two M6 bolts from the top of the plate so you have tension in two axes. you can also use four M6 bolts from the top if you don't use the QR system and sacrifice the sacrificial anode.

The mast to fuselage connection is simple and effective. Bolts are nice and tight after a session.

1) Is the mast noticeably stiffer, thinking about 83cm? I have currently the 82cm and with the w1110 it's more wobbly/flexy compared to W945.
2) is the mast faster in speed compared to old x2cm ones?

Thanks very much!

@OMG:
I have the Sab 82cm and an Cedrus mast, wich is known as an extremely stiff mast, and the "wobblyness" of the 1110 is the same.I blame the foil-fuse connection instead of the mast.

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Jeroensurf said..
@OMG:
I have the Sab 82cm and an Cedrus mast, wich is known as an extremely stiff mast, and the "wobblyness" of the 1110 is the same.I blame the foil-fuse connection instead of the mast.

Kraken M93K and W1110 and no wobbles. Rock solid and smooth riding.

didn't think i'd have any use for the quick release.... after two days using it, might have to rethink my position. time will tell. when i disconnected my foil this evening, a lot of wingers noticed and started asking questions.

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sunsetsailboards said..
didn't think i'd have any use for the quick release.... after two days using it, might have to rethink my position. time will tell. when i disconnected my foil this evening, a lot of wingers noticed and started asking questions.

I thought that you are using the 2 M6 and no longer can use the quick release? How is the mast so far compared to your old Moses ones?