I thought I'd chronical this. Background: 75kg, over 50, wind & kite surfing experience.

Day 1 (27/3/22): Swan river, gusty 15kn easterly, spent out 30mins on land playing with wing before an hour on 9' SUP (no foil). Getting up and moving pretty easy on this aircraft carrier of a SUP. Able to stay windward. Turning very tricky

Day 2: On SUP again, ~1hr. Only falling at turns. Loving the boom on the duotone slick (5.5m). Just like a windsurfer. Don't need to look and can shuffle hands easily.

Day 3: On 99L foil board sans foil, just an old windsurf fin. Ridiculously more unstable. Thinking this is impossible. Before rising to knees, need to shuffle back 1-2 inches otherwise nose dives. Easier to stand up if board is moving and wing powered up first. Need to be very careful of feet placement otherwise board tips very easily. Getting up very tricky but once up not too bad. In 1 hr wing tips hit the water only a few times but nothing drastic. First time had to do walk of shame. Still don't know what to call this sport. Telling SWMBO I'm going 'winging' sounds naff.

Day 4: First time with 1900cm2 foil, 70cm mast, positioned rear most. Amazingly my cheap $20 cordless screwdriver works. Another hr in very gusty 5-15kn easterlies. Learnt getting on much more stable if I hold leading edge handle and side of board with back hand before getting on board. Once on board, I swap hands and sheet in for stability. Also much easier if steady myself on one knee before trying to stand up. Initially first 2 times up on foil it shot off down wind. Dejavu, again thinking this is impossible. Repositioned stance more windward helped. Longest flight was 5-10m. Trying to control lift by micro-adjusting power on wing. Kinda works, kinda doesn't. Next time I will try changing foot pressure to control lift. Walk of shame x 2. Waist leech annoying me greatly. Will keep persisting for a while yet.

Well done. You're on the way now. It's a fun and frustrating journey.

Much easier if you spend an hour or two behind a boat/JetSki to learn the foil first.

Sounds very similar journey to me a year ago. Similar background and late 50s.
I am still addicted and loving it. It was a long slog for me with zero foil experience and tricky conditions to learn in. Well worth persevering, the hard yards are worth it for the pleasure of foiling.

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Freddofrog said..
I thought I'd chronical this. Background: 75kg, over 50, wind & kite surfing experience.

Day 1 (27/3/22): Swan river, gusty 15kn easterly, spent out 30mins on land playing with wing before an hour on 9' SUP (no foil). Getting up and moving pretty easy on this aircraft carrier of a SUP. Able to stay windward. Turning very tricky

Day 2: On SUP again, ~1hr. Only falling at turns. Loving the boom on the duotone slick (5.5m). Just like a windsurfer. Don't need to look and can shuffle hands easily.

Day 3: On 99L foil board sans foil, just an old windsurf fin. Ridiculously more unstable. Thinking this is impossible. Before rising to knees, need to shuffle back 1-2 inches otherwise nose dives. Easier to stand up if board is moving and wing powered up first. Need to be very careful of feet placement otherwise board tips very easily. Getting up very tricky but once up not too bad. In 1 hr wing tips hit the water only a few times but nothing drastic. First time had to do walk of shame. Still don't know what to call this sport. Telling SWMBO I'm going 'winging' sounds naff.

Day 4: First time with 1900cm2 foil, 70cm mast, positioned rear most. Amazingly my cheap $20 cordless screwdriver works. Another hr in very gusty 5-15kn easterlies. Learnt getting on much more stable if I hold leading edge handle and side of board with back hand before getting on board. Once on board, I swap hands and sheet in for stability. Also much easier if steady myself on one knee before trying to stand up. Initially first 2 times up on foil it shot off down wind. Dejavu, again thinking this is impossible. Repositioned stance more windward helped. Longest flight was 5-10m. Trying to control lift by micro-adjusting power on wing. Kinda works, kinda doesn't. Next time I will try changing foot pressure to control lift. Walk of shame x 2. Waist leech annoying me greatly. Will keep persisting for a while yet.

Keep going Freddo, its worth the pain.

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hilly said..
Much easier if you spend an hour or two behind a boat/JetSki to learn the foil first.

I agree with hilly. I spent a whole summer behind a boat and got the foiling part fairly wired first. It was still a battle figuring out the wing part but it made the process easier.

All my inconsiderate friends have sold their boats.
One does have a tiny 3.2m tinny with a 12hp motor. Would that work?
Foils don't need much power but 12hp is pretty bludy small and in WA you need a driver plus spotter.

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Freddofrog said..
All my inconsiderate friends have sold their boats.
One does have a tiny 3.2m tinny with a 12hp motor. Would that work?
Foils don't need much power but 12hp is pretty bludy small and in WA you need a driver plus spotter.

Hi Freddo.
3.2m tinny with 12hp is fine. I used to give SUP Foil lessons with a 3m tinny and 10hp motor and it worked perfectly until an officious prick on a jetski from the Maritime Police with a waterproof iPad came up and said no spotter no go
Not easy to find someone to sit in a boat in the middle of an estuary while you teach someone to foil. So I sold the boat and now people have to find another way to learn fast.

Learning to foil behind a boat is a great way just to concentrate on learning to foil without worrying about wind, waves, kites, sails and wings. If you can get your mate with the tinny to give you a tow you'll find it will speed up your foiling progression.

Took one lesson on jetski very early on in my journey and I just fell for 2hrs without getting on the foil. Second student had gone through some of the pain you describe for about 10 sessions and got on the foil during the first run.

Buying a tough balance board (I have the blue planet one) was the best spent money for me. After using it daily for one week I went out and thought to myself: wow there is no chop today.

I self taught myself how to windfoil (over 50yo 95kg) and enjoyed that for a couple of years before getting a wing. The transferable foil skills meant I had my first wing foil reaches after about 30 minutes of messing around learning to climb on and swearing at leashes. So if a boat isn't an option and you can get crossover kit to windfoil you could bring your windsurf experience to the party.
That said it's not too difficult so sure you will crack it very soon with TOW

Day 5: Barely enough wind, maybe 10 with occasional 15kn gust. Moved foil forward an inch to help it rise easier. As per youtube, tried to just stay balanced, let the board build up speed and let the foil fly when it's ready. That worked a lot better than what i was trying last time, ie press on your rear foot to force the nose up. Got flying about 3 times x 10m. Seems you need to position your front foot quite a bit to windward too.

Be on the hunt for steady 15kn+ winds! As soon as that happens, you'll start crushing it :-)

go when you think its too windy, best advice I got. Got me up on foil even when I didn't want to!

I am quite competent on the kite foil but transitioning into the wing I felt like I was a complete novice again.... aaaaaargh. It just took so long. I am up but I have a long, long way to go. I keep telling myself that it is worth the pain.

I am just a bit ahead of you in my wing foiling journey and renting an eFoil certainly helped me, it's not the same as being pulled by a boat but nonetheless it gives a sense of what foiling is about. And whether you eFoil or go behind a boat make sure you try and practice both side!

Great thread and good tips, thank you gentlemen! I'm similar to 2 of the other learners: 70kg, 30 years windsurfing and kiting, but 72 y.o. I tried wind-foiling last year, but got discouraged (thought my balance had deteriorated too much) and put it away until this autumn (lower winds in Adelaide). Tried the 4m wing for a while, but went back to windfoiling to get more skill on the foil first. That is working as others have found. (For locals, I've been on the Port River and Boggy Lake) as I need pretty flat water to get going successfully. I have a 150lt Naish Crossover board, which is perfect for my current state of balance. I have been spending much time doing what I call 'ripple-clipping' because I've been struggling to keep my balance once I get up off the water, but last couple of times I've been able to control that a bit to do 50m or so above the water. What a buzz! For me, it is saying that I haven't lost my balance after all!! And I'm finding, as Rodskeg says, going out in what you think is too much wind for my skill level turns out to be a good thing. Now some questions: 1. With my 83cm-wide, 12kg board, as distinct from most of what folk say, I find that I have to keep both feet near the centre-line. Is that poor technique or just too little wind? (I am only doing about 10-12knots in 15knot puffs.) 2. When I get going downwind (mostly unintended) I haven't been able to get back to cross-wind without falling in and starting again - and seem to be going too fast even to put the board back on the water to help change course (to square of wind). All suggestions welcome! I have Axis foils: a 900 and an 1150mm wide front foils and a 400 back. I am mostly using the 1150, but from what someone in the thread said, maybe I should man up and use the 1150 in stronger winds. Also, someone said, I think, that a smaller, less balance-friendly board helped them. And some commentators have said that the Axis 500mm rear foil adds a lot more stability (and less speed) than the 400 I'm using. I'd be delighted to hear comments on these thoughts!

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Freddofrog said..
I thought I'd chronical this. Background: 75kg, over 50, wind & kite surfing experience.

Day 1 (27/3/22): Swan river, gusty 15kn easterly, spent out 30mins on land playing with wing before an hour on 9' SUP (no foil). Getting up and moving pretty easy on this aircraft carrier of a SUP. Able to stay windward. Turning very tricky

Day 2: On SUP again, ~1hr. Only falling at turns. Loving the boom on the duotone slick (5.5m). Just like a windsurfer. Don't need to look and can shuffle hands easily.

Day 3: On 99L foil board sans foil, just an old windsurf fin. Ridiculously more unstable. Thinking this is impossible. Before rising to knees, need to shuffle back 1-2 inches otherwise nose dives. Easier to stand up if board is moving and wing powered up first. Need to be very careful of feet placement otherwise board tips very easily. Getting up very tricky but once up not too bad. In 1 hr wing tips hit the water only a few times but nothing drastic. First time had to do walk of shame. Still don't know what to call this sport. Telling SWMBO I'm going 'winging' sounds naff.

Day 4: First time with 1900cm2 foil, 70cm mast, positioned rear most. Amazingly my cheap $20 cordless screwdriver works. Another hr in very gusty 5-15kn easterlies. Learnt getting on much more stable if I hold leading edge handle and side of board with back hand before getting on board. Once on board, I swap hands and sheet in for stability. Also much easier if steady myself on one knee before trying to stand up. Initially first 2 times up on foil it shot off down wind. Dejavu, again thinking this is impossible. Repositioned stance more windward helped. Longest flight was 5-10m. Trying to control lift by micro-adjusting power on wing. Kinda works, kinda doesn't. Next time I will try changing foot pressure to control lift. Walk of shame x 2. Waist leech annoying me greatly. Will keep persisting for a while yet.

You're doing really well Freddo! Just keep doing what you are doing.
5 to 10 minute runs? Doing very well.
Walk of shame will reduce over time if you priorities trying upwind if up on foil or not.
Towing behind a boat didn't help me much. But foil surfing in small waves did.
But you have passed that stage already in my opinion.

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Seajuice said..
...5 to 10 minute runs? Doing very well.

LOL, I wish, that was 5-10m (as in meters!). That's funny.

Day 7 (if you can call it that). Ridiculously gusty. Even though I'm on the water for about an hour each time, realistically there would be less than 15mins where the wind is actually strong enough. Anyway, I'm now at the stage that if the gust is strong enough I can get up on the foil easily enough on my normal stance (goofy) but struggle on the opposite tack. My pumping is just sad. Can't believe it is so different to pumping a sail.

Today I managed to get about 50m (meters) on the foil, my longest yet so pretty stoked. And this sucker rockets to winward like nothing I've ridden before. Kinda figuring out I have to move my feet to balance the board but haven't worked out how to stay still and just shift my weight. I breeched once so that was kinda cool. Seems easier to control roll/heel if I keep my back foot close to the centre line and my front to windward.

I also moved my mast forward to the center position. Seems to fly earlier but hard to tell. I've still got a degree of back foot pressure happening. I'm currently blaming my poor technique rather than poor mast location so I'll stick with it for a while before I move it again.

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taveray said..
... Now some questions: 1. With my 83cm-wide, 12kg board, as distinct from most of what folk say, I find that I have to keep both feet near the centre-line. Is that poor technique or just too little wind? (I am only doing about 10-12knots in 15knot puffs.) 2. When I get going downwind (mostly unintended) I haven't been able to get back to cross-wind without falling in and starting again - and seem to be going too fast even to put the board back on the water to help change course (to square of wind). ...

Ok with my vast 7 days experience, I found standing on the center line only worked in light winds 'taxiing'. Once on the foil, you need to counter act the pull of the wing and have your front foot to windward. This allows to tilt the board to windward and hence track to a beam reach or higher (ie 'cross-wind').

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Freddofrog said..

taveray said..
... Now some questions: 1. With my 83cm-wide, 12kg board, as distinct from most of what folk say, I find that I have to keep both feet near the centre-line. Is that poor technique or just too little wind? (I am only doing about 10-12knots in 15knot puffs.) 2. When I get going downwind (mostly unintended) I haven't been able to get back to cross-wind without falling in and starting again - and seem to be going too fast even to put the board back on the water to help change course (to square of wind). ...

Ok with my vast 7 days experience, I found standing on the center line only worked in light winds 'taxiing'. Once on the foil, you need to counter act the pull of the wing and have your front foot to windward. This allows to tilt the board to windward and hence track to a beam reach or higher (ie 'cross-wind').

Just out of interest, not advice. when I started a year ago. I spent the first month figuring out foot and mast position front to back. ex wind/kiter so had a lot of back foot biases, feet straddling centre line. Always felt like I needed to add toe pressur
Now I have back foot arch over centre line and front foot ball over centre line, works well for me.

Slow learner here, I can get on foil easy now but no jibes. My feedback to you is that if you know where your feet are on the board then you spend too much time focussing on them. Look at the horizon and move your feet to balance the board. I have no idea where my feet are relative to the center line or aft-fore.

Good luck, it's a fun journey!

Day 8:
Ok, my first day with actual wind, gusty 13-18kn. Makes getting up on the foil so much easier, esp on my normal tack. Lots of touchdowns and breeches but at least I'm flying. Total different on the opposite tack. Years of strong rear foot pressure from windsurfing & kiting was hard to overcome. Board constantly shooting up. I can't ever recall spending sooooo much time falling off. I'm trying to even out the foot pressure but feels very unnerving. I have to physically look where I place my feet where as on my normal tack I don't have to.

But I did learn a new skill, mounting the board from the leeward side. Essentially I'm holding the wing handle and front leeward edge of the board with my back hand, grabbing the rear windward edge of the board with my front hand and scrambling on. It's pretty easy actually.

And something totally new to me, these things rocket upwind. Never been able to point so high and go so fast. With this, I'm thinking solo downwinders should be possible. Start at x, spend an hour tacking upwind, then 30mins returning. I already do this on my surf ski, works a treat.

All in all, best day yet!

For 8 days in you're doing great compared to the learning curve a lot of us had :-) Such a fun sport!

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Freddofrog said..
Day 8:
Ok, my first day with actual wind, gusty 13-18kn. Makes getting up on the foil so much easier, esp on my normal tack. Lots of touchdowns and breeches but at least I'm flying. Total different on the opposite tack. Years of strong rear foot pressure from windsurfing & kiting was hard to overcome. Board constantly shooting up. I can't ever recall spending sooooo much time falling off. I'm trying to even out the foot pressure but feels very unnerving. I have to physically look where I place my feet where as on my normal tack I don't have to.

But I did learn a new skill, mounting the board from the leeward side. Essentially I'm holding the wing handle and front leeward edge of the board with my back hand, grabbing the rear windward edge of the board with my front hand and scrambling on. It's pretty easy actually.

And something totally new to me, these things rocket upwind. Never been able to point so high and go so fast. With this, I'm thinking solo downwinders should be possible. Start at x, spend an hour tacking upwind, then 30mins returning. I already do this on my surf ski, works a treat.

All in all, best day yet!

Where were you winging yesterday? Were you at Pelican Point on a Smik or Duotone?

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Freddofrog said..
Day 8:
Ok, my first day with actual wind, gusty 13-18kn. Makes getting up on the foil so much easier, esp on my normal tack. Lots of touchdowns and breeches but at least I'm flying. Total different on the opposite tack. Years of strong rear foot pressure from windsurfing & kiting was hard to overcome. Board constantly shooting up. I can't ever recall spending sooooo much time falling off. I'm trying to even out the foot pressure but feels very unnerving. I have to physically look where I place my feet where as on my normal tack I don't have to.

But I did learn a new skill, mounting the board from the leeward side. Essentially I'm holding the wing handle and front leeward edge of the board with my back hand, grabbing the rear windward edge of the board with my front hand and scrambling on. It's pretty easy actually.

And something totally new to me, these things rocket upwind. Never been able to point so high and go so fast. With this, I'm thinking solo downwinders should be possible. Start at x, spend an hour tacking upwind, then 30mins returning. I already do this on my surf ski, works a treat.

All in all, best day yet!

Could help watching this youtube vid for foil position. This helped me a lot once i was starting to popup on foil but then immediately stalling out. Maybe you need to move the foil back for a while.

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kiwiupover said..

Could help watching this youtube vid for foil position. This helped me a lot once i was starting to popup on foil but then immediately stalling out. Maybe you need to move the foil back for a while.

It was back, I've gradually moved it forward but day 8 was a bit windy so moved it back to the centre. It's still slightly back of the balance pt though so it should theoretically be nosing down slightly. I'm ok going out so I don't think it's the foil position, just need to unlearn old skills. Towards the end I was getting on the foil but still feeling very awkward. Going out I can shuffle my feet around to try and balance the board, move hand position etc but struggle to do the same coming in.
Thx for the vid but at 25mins, that's wayyyy beyond my patience threshold. 3min or under, 5 tops. Any more they either don't know the value of brevity or it's too complex for my little noggin.

In case anyone is interested in my new found leeward mount.

Seen a couple of videos say:
1. Put foil in board, with board upside down i e. foil in air.
2. Find thickest part of front foil, usually 1/3 back and lift foil and board. This is the centre of lift
3. Move mast until board level.
4. Note position of centre of lift on board using plumb line.
5. Place feet equidistant from this point.
6. The centre of weight of gear is lined up with centre of lift, and your weight us either side if it.
Adjust to suit.

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patronus said..
Seen a couple of videos say:
1. Put foil in board, with board upside down i e. foil in air.
2. Find thickest part of front foil, usually 1/3 back and lift foil and board. This is the centre of lift
3. Move mast until board level.
4. Note position of centre of lift on board using plumb line.
5. Place feet equidistant from this point.
6. The centre of weight of gear is lined up with centre of lift, and your weight us either side if it.
Adjust to suit.

Yep, seen those vids too. On my one windy day I moved the mast back 1cm to help keep the nose down and on the low wind gusty days 1cm forward to get it fly easier.

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drsurf said..

Freddofrog said..
All my inconsiderate friends have sold their boats.
One does have a tiny 3.2m tinny with a 12hp motor. Would that work?
Foils don't need much power but 12hp is pretty bludy small and in WA you need a driver plus spotter.

Hi Freddo.
3.2m tinny with 12hp is fine. I used to give SUP Foil lessons with a 3m tinny and 10hp motor and it worked perfectly until an officious prick on a jetski from the Maritime Police with a waterproof iPad came up and said no spotter no go
Not easy to find someone to sit in a boat in the middle of an estuary while you teach someone to foil. So I sold the boat and now people have to find another way to learn fast.

Learning to foil behind a boat is a great way just to concentrate on learning to foil without worrying about wind, waves, kites, sails and wings. If you can get your mate with the tinny to give you a tow you'll find it will speed up your foiling progression.

12hp should be fine. We have a 10hp limit on our lake too. Pulled a friend who did not have any former foil experience, has surfing and windsurfing background though and that helps a lot. 90 kg rider, with my 80 L wing board with foot straps, 1350 cm2 front wing. On a smallish board like this (10 L below his weight) the foot straps were the key - he did not even have a chance to place the feet in a wrong place. And then all it takes is a good communication - the one who is pulling should know how the foil works and give proper guidance, then it's super easy.photos.app.goo.gl/yYvAoK46qYVPd2jX8

Fred, Im nearly one year in started at 65yrs at 97kg and 35yrs windsurfer. I bought new gear 130L board 6m wing and a Axis 1010
I started with one lesson then self taught and one day boat towing then was on my own just me and Youtube. I went through hell learning in winter with cool crap winds but had plenty of spare time it was the hardest and most frustrating thing I've done and felt like giving up many times. I kept at it and slowly got better I got to the stage where I could foil and turn without falling then said that I would never foil gybe but now I can. Now I have bought a 5m and a 95L board and can ride it well. Contact me on FB if you want it helps to chat and learn this is what I did I had a few better wingers I chatted with for advise.