I'm currently riding 2022 Fanatic Sky Wing 5'4" (95L). Will larger board, say Sky Wing 5'8" (125L), help me to get better light wind performance or it all technique and no difference what board I use? Using same foil and wing.
I'm 5'10", 188 lbs (86 kg).

I find that the tail width is the number one factor, assuming no tail kick. I went from the 95L 5'4" fanatic to a home built 4'6" 70L. Even though the fanatic is 26" wide the tail is only 15" wide. My 4'6" is 23" wide and 15" at the tail. At near-foiling speeds pumping up on foil my little board is just as good as the fanatic. Slogging is a different story. My 105l fone had a tail kick and I felt and heard it sucking water as I was approaching planing/takeoff speeds.
Any surfer who has ridden a short and wide "sweet potato" style shortboard can tell you about their low speed planing abilities which magically keep you surfing through a flat wave section where a typical shortboard would sink.

apart from what Johnny stated boardwise I?d recommend to first check if you?ve already squeezed your foil set up potential.
What?s your current front wing size ? I?ve seen youtube videos comparing 1500 vs 2000cm2 frontwings and the end of the story is: size matters

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Foxi said..
apart from what Johnny stated boardwise I?d recommend to first check if you?ve already squeezed your foil set up potential.
What?s your current front wing size ? I?ve seen youtube videos comparing 1500 vs 2000cm2 frontwings and the end of the story is: size matters

My light wind foil is 1850. I don't think I want to go bigger.

95L is quite a lot of volume and paired with 1850 is again massive. What size wing are you trying here? Again you never specified how light you're in?
If you're using a 5m wing and you're in 8 knots. yeah that's why. But if you're on an 8m, you should be able to ride this.

I'm similar body weight to you motogon. My setup is a 5'x75L for most wind conditions. If I want a super light wind session I put on the 2200cm2 foil and a 5m. This gets me going in slightest of gusts. Or I use my 6'4x115L downwind Sup. Longer board length and speed make for an easy light wind setup that I can stand on and slog. Also gives me another foil sport other than winging for surf or DW paddling. I don't really see the benefit of having two similar sized high volume short wing boards 5'4" vs 5'8". Boards like the ONE egg 6'1 make great wing boards for light wind winging as they are super light and minimal swing weight and double as a SUP. I'm

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baldy123 said..
I'm similar body weight to you motogon. My setup is a 5'x75L for most wind conditions. If I want a super light wind session I put on the 2200cm2 foil and a 5m. This gets me going in slightest of gusts. Or I use my 6'4x115L downwind Sup. Longer board length and speed make for an easy light wind setup that I can stand on and slog. Also gives me another foil sport other than winging for surf or DW paddling. I don't really see the benefit of having two similar sized high volume short wing boards 5'4" vs 5'8". Boards like the ONE egg 6'1 make great wing boards for light wind winging as they are super light and minimal swing weight and double as a SUP. I'm

Why are you using a 5 in the light . Unless you're 45kg, this is a terrible idea.

Use a big wing and efficient HA foil. You'll have much more glide and you'll be going more than 11 kph. Makes turning much easier too.

A bigger board floats easier, but it is also heavier so harder to pump so the answer is No.

a bit more detailed:I,m a 100kg and riding an AK5.8x90l a board with a fast rocker and that is pretty light. as soon as there is a bit of wind I can pump it up the foil.
Because the winters are cold here and 90l isnt big enough to float me when the wind really dies I bought last winter an Fanatic2022 5.8x125l. Nice board but noticeably bigger and heavier.
Its great not to sink when the wind dies and the water is 3 degree and because of that it is an keeper, but it won't get me earlier on the foil as the 90l.I have and tried various foils on both boards from the huge mid aspect 1100(2100cm2) to the very high aspect 1110 (1180cm2), that doesnt really matter. I tried a bit longer boards (6.5/7ft) as well but they are harder to pump and are slower to get on the foil as the 5.8x125l.

I have 2 wing boards. They are both 5'5" long. One is 80l (Sunova wing aviator) and the other is 105l (JP X wing). When the wind is light I use the 105l board. It gets up as easy as the other board on either a ART 1099 or HPS 980 in around 10 knots. Once up it goes in less. I use the bigger board only because with a stuffed hip and when the wind drops it will float me with out sinking. Also when tired I struggle to get up in the light wind.

Once the wind is 15 knots or more the 80l is the go. Then use the 880 or ART 899. Could I survive with the bigger board only the answer is yes. I think sometimes we are over eager to advance before we are ready. The big board is easier to switch feet as it is more forgiving with the volume. A stuff up on the smaller board can result in a crash.

I also can confirm John's and Jeroen's reply. Me 88kg, having a 88l and 108l Board from the same built, i've got the impression that the 108l doesn't get me up earlier on my ART foils (899, 999) - 108l just helps me keeping my body out of 3?C water in winter as much as possible in marginal conditions, as i can't slog around with the 88l in lulls. I can imagine, that with more beefy foils, which you can pump harder, I would have even more advantage with the 88l.

75kg me - 60L and 44L. Only need 15 knot gust for 44L. 60L easier to float and really doesn't sink much, 44L paddles much better weirdly.
Will always ride big wings, and small foils, I prefer the 799 over 999. Best combo, plus small board allows me to not feel overpowered on big wings.
Might be at times a hassle to start 44L, but with a big wing very easy. Quick few pumps and were off!

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King Crash said..
75kg me - 60L and 44L. Only need 15 knot gust for 44L. 60L easier to float and really doesn't sink much, 44L paddles much better weirdly.
Will always ride big wings, and small foils, I prefer the 799 over 999. Best combo, plus small board allows me to not feel overpowered on big wings.
Might be at times a hassle to start 44L, but with a big wing very easy. Quick few pumps and were off!

I am also considering going smaller and would like to know if you manage the 15 knots on the 44L with a squat-waterstart? (I do not want to apply the "stinkbug" methode.....even if it is obviously effective)

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tintifax said..

King Crash said..
75kg me - 60L and 44L. Only need 15 knot gust for 44L. 60L easier to float and really doesn't sink much, 44L paddles much better weirdly.
Will always ride big wings, and small foils, I prefer the 799 over 999. Best combo, plus small board allows me to not feel overpowered on big wings.
Might be at times a hassle to start 44L, but with a big wing very easy. Quick few pumps and were off!

I am also considering going smaller and would like to know if you manage the 15 knots on the 44L with a squat-waterstart? (I do not want to apply the "stinkbug" methode.....even if it is obviously effective)

44L is easy in 15 knots - 6m wing, can even get it with a 5 if you try hard enough, and an ART999. My 44L is 4"0, so very small and a bit trickier to get planning speed.

Order of operations as follows. 1. Sit in surf stance - you are stable and able to get wing above head. 2. Start to displacement sail, get some forward movement.
3. Swing legs into board, and into kneeling position. This is usually a very quick step, I hardly kneel for more than 1-2 seconds.
4. Windward foot into the front strap, stand and start pumping in one movement.
5. Bear away if you're not beam reaching and go for maximum power.
You should be foiling now.
I prefer to surf stance start as sinking require more of a gust to bring you out of the water. Sinking is just as easy over 20 knots, very little effort then.

Video demonstration from these two legends.

Motogon, I think a larger board will assist you for float and stability if it's choppy or messy and you're struggling for balance on the smaller board. But with a good technique, I think the smaller board will release earlier and get going in lighter winds. If you can balance on the smaller one, I'd be more inclined to stick with that.
King Crash, I think using a 5m as your biggest wing is totally understandable. I'm 175cm too and 5 is perfect for me. Anything bigger means I touch the wing tips too often when trying to pump up on foil. I've tried 5.5m and 6 m Slicks and Matadors and the 5 works better. I can get going in 10 knots. And I've got buggered shoulders so a bigger wing means I have to work MUCH harder to maintain good pumping technique.

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martyj4 said..
Motogon, I think a larger board will assist you for float and stability if it's choppy or messy and you're struggling for balance on the smaller board. But with a good technique, I think the smaller board will release earlier and get going in lighter winds. If you can balance on the smaller one, I'd be more inclined to stick with that.
King Crash, I think using a 5m as your biggest wing is totally understandable. I'm 175cm too and 5 is perfect for me. Anything bigger means I touch the wing tips too often when trying to pump up on foil. I've tried 5.5m and 6 m Slicks and Matadors and the 5 works better. I can get going in 10 knots. And I've got buggered shoulders so a bigger wing means I have to work MUCH harder to maintain good pumping technique.

@Martyj4 - totally aware it works with the 5m, most people start with this mentality, small wing, big foil. It's just the least efficient method. Also not to hate, but you did try some of the least efficient wings. If you tried one of the new strikes or PPC's you'd be telling me a different story.
Look at these guys here as reference, they're slapping on power in big wings and very efficient HA foils. They're up and riding with max 80L boards. Just remember, whilst volume floats you, it also slows your planning down.

I take a larger board out when I know the wind will disappear and I will have to slog in. My small board sinks in anything under 8 knots. Being 1.5k out in sharky water when the wind has dropped, and it is getting dark, feels much safer to be standing rather than paddling.

I think large and wide boards are not better than small, narrower and lighter boards. As soon as you move...and pump, the smaller, lighter board better pumps better off foil I think. What could be a better options are the newer Downwind SUP...22-23 inches wide...with a higher aspect foil(need speed to get up foiling)....as soon as you foil you never touch down.

I am 100kg and 53 years old. What size sinker should I get that is easy to balance under water but where I don't need a crap-ton of wind to get out of the water?

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JakeDawg69 said..
I am 100kg and 53 years old. What size sinker should I get that is easy to balance under water but where I don't need a crap-ton of wind to get out of the water?

When I was 53 y/o, I was 90 kg and uphauling 85 liters wave board when wind dies ;-)

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motogon said..


When I was 53 y/o, I was 90 kg and uphauling 85 liters wave board when wind dies ;-)

So just 5 L below your weight? How many inches would the board sink when you stood up? Were you balancing on foot straps, slogging, or doing stink bug?

hey guys, you all talking as very advanced wingers
what about the new ones? i just started getting on foil.
my pumping technique "is not perfect" at all.... so what the best board for me?

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JakeDawg69 said..

motogon said..


When I was 53 y/o, I was 90 kg and uphauling 85 liters wave board when wind dies ;-)

So just 5 L below your weight? How many inches would the board sink when you stood up? Were you balancing on foot straps, slogging, or doing stink bug?

5L under your body weight is just a sub, it'll just sink down a few inches, PPC make killer new Soar boards. You could give their 82 a crack.

A proper sinker is out of this world fun when on foil. You feel like you're riding a skateboard, turning hard and carving is just so good. One point to consider here is length, I'm rocking a little more L, but have removed length to compensate. I also have a super small 3"10 x 33L for ultimate sinking and carving.

look at the video I posted above from JuJucams. They explain how to get on foil with a sinker. It's that easy!

Just remember when playing around with boards that are harder to start, always scale your wing UP in size. You've removed L from the board and length, so you can easily have more power and not feel overpowered. This makes starting much easier!


@Felix whatever you're using now. winging has this aura, where people see person x and think, shoot they're doing Y. It's a bit advanced for me, but I'll do it too. You can then stagnate or risk having too many subpar sessions. Stick with what you have, learn to Gybe, Tack and if you have inserts jump too. Then start the journey of removing length and volume. Some of the top Sam-Fran wingers have all gone back to their formula kite boards, so there he always this option too!

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King Crash said..

JakeDawg69 said..

motogon said..


When I was 53 y/o, I was 90 kg and uphauling 85 liters wave board when wind dies ;-)

So just 5 L below your weight? How many inches would the board sink when you stood up? Were you balancing on foot straps, slogging, or doing stink bug?

5L under your body weight is just a sub, it'll just sink down a few inches, PPC make killer new Soar boards. You could give their 82 a crack.

A proper sinker is out of this world fun when on foil. You feel like you're riding a skateboard, turning hard and carving is just so good. One point to consider here is length, I'm rocking a little more L, but have removed length to compensate. I also have a super small 3"10 x 33L for ultimate sinking and carving.

look at the video I posted above from JuJucams. They explain how to get on foil with a sinker. It's that easy!

Just remember when playing around with boards that are harder to start, always scale your wing UP in size. You've removed L from the board and length, so you can easily have more power and not feel overpowered. This makes starting much easier!


@Felix whatever you're using now. winging has this aura, where people see person x and think, shoot they're doing Y. It's a bit advanced for me, but I'll do it too. You can then stagnate or risk having too many subpar sessions. Stick with what you have, learn to Gybe, Tack and if you have inserts jump too. Then start the journey of removing length and volume. Some of the top Sam-Fran wingers have all gone back to their formula kite boards, so there he always this option too!

Thanks King Crash. So if I'm at 100 Kg and I go to 95 L, the board will only sink a few inches. Is that the ideal for someone new to sinkers? Or will a 90 L or lower be more stable to balance underwater?

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JakeDawg69 said..

King Crash said..

JakeDawg69 said..

motogon said..


When I was 53 y/o, I was 90 kg and uphauling 85 liters wave board when wind dies ;-)

So just 5 L below your weight? How many inches would the board sink when you stood up? Were you balancing on foot straps, slogging, or doing stink bug?

5L under your body weight is just a sub, it'll just sink down a few inches, PPC make killer new Soar boards. You could give their 82 a crack.

A proper sinker is out of this world fun when on foil. You feel like you're riding a skateboard, turning hard and carving is just so good. One point to consider here is length, I'm rocking a little more L, but have removed length to compensate. I also have a super small 3"10 x 33L for ultimate sinking and carving.

look at the video I posted above from JuJucams. They explain how to get on foil with a sinker. It's that easy!

Just remember when playing around with boards that are harder to start, always scale your wing UP in size. You've removed L from the board and length, so you can easily have more power and not feel overpowered. This makes starting much easier!


@Felix whatever you're using now. winging has this aura, where people see person x and think, shoot they're doing Y. It's a bit advanced for me, but I'll do it too. You can then stagnate or risk having too many subpar sessions. Stick with what you have, learn to Gybe, Tack and if you have inserts jump too. Then start the journey of removing length and volume. Some of the top Sam-Fran wingers have all gone back to their formula kite boards, so there he always this option too!

Thanks King Crash. So if I'm at 100 Kg and I go to 95 L, the board will only sink a few inches. Is that the ideal for someone new to sinkers? Or will a 90 L or lower be more stable to balance underwater?

JakeDawg - we go down in L to improve foil responsiveness and swing through board length. 95 probably won't make much of a difference, you might have your toes a little wet when sitting around in a lull. A 90 is then 10L/kg than your body and should start to give you an experience of this difference.


A big note when dropping L, all your bad habits you may of learned on a larger volume board will not work, or will make you honest. I'd recommend going out with this slightly sinking board from 15 knots, work on the skills when you're powered and slowly come down in wind speed once you've got the skills.
The worst would be out on a 33L, 4"2 board in 13 knots. Unless you have a 8m wing. I got bad news.

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King Crash said..

martyj4 said..
Motogon, I think a larger board will assist you for float and stability if it's choppy or messy and you're struggling for balance on the smaller board. But with a good technique, I think the smaller board will release earlier and get going in lighter winds. If you can balance on the smaller one, I'd be more inclined to stick with that.
King Crash, I think using a 5m as your biggest wing is totally understandable. I'm 175cm too and 5 is perfect for me. Anything bigger means I touch the wing tips too often when trying to pump up on foil. I've tried 5.5m and 6 m Slicks and Matadors and the 5 works better. I can get going in 10 knots. And I've got buggered shoulders so a bigger wing means I have to work MUCH harder to maintain good pumping technique.

@Martyj4 - totally aware it works with the 5m, most people start with this mentality, small wing, big foil. It's just the least efficient method. Also not to hate, but you did try some of the least efficient wings. If you tried one of the new strikes or PPC's you'd be telling me a different story.
Look at these guys here as reference, they're slapping on power in big wings and very efficient HA foils. They're up and riding with max 80L boards. Just remember, whilst volume floats you, it also slows your planning down.

No hate taken Kingcrash :)
You clearly have way more skill than me, but I'd just reiterate that anything with a wingspan wider than 3.3m will often touch when I pump the wing. Wingtips touching often means the whole pumping routine is corrupted and I have to start again. That's why I feel a 5m is the perfect power for control (for me). And that's possibly due to my windsurfing background and a tendency to feel more efficient when pumping the wing in a vertical position. I think regardless of wing type, this will happen. I have a 5m Echo as well and that often touches when pumping. It's about 20cm wider than the 5m Slick.
I'll also add that I feel the boom and rigid handles have a better feel for pumping than the loose handles. Yep - probably my skill level again but with a firm well connected handle I think you can control the twist, pitch and yaw of the wing when pumping or just generally sailing.
Not saying that my technique is the most efficient - far from it when you look at those vids above. But it is for me and may be for some others?

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martyj4 said..

King Crash said..

martyj4 said..
Motogon, I think a larger board will assist you for float and stability if it's choppy or messy and you're struggling for balance on the smaller board. But with a good technique, I think the smaller board will release earlier and get going in lighter winds. If you can balance on the smaller one, I'd be more inclined to stick with that.
King Crash, I think using a 5m as your biggest wing is totally understandable. I'm 175cm too and 5 is perfect for me. Anything bigger means I touch the wing tips too often when trying to pump up on foil. I've tried 5.5m and 6 m Slicks and Matadors and the 5 works better. I can get going in 10 knots. And I've got buggered shoulders so a bigger wing means I have to work MUCH harder to maintain good pumping technique.

@Martyj4 - totally aware it works with the 5m, most people start with this mentality, small wing, big foil. It's just the least efficient method. Also not to hate, but you did try some of the least efficient wings. If you tried one of the new strikes or PPC's you'd be telling me a different story.
Look at these guys here as reference, they're slapping on power in big wings and very efficient HA foils. They're up and riding with max 80L boards. Just remember, whilst volume floats you, it also slows your planning down.

No hate taken Kingcrash :)
You clearly have way more skill than me, but I'd just reiterate that anything with a wingspan wider than 3.3m will often touch when I pump the wing. Wingtips touching often means the whole pumping routine is corrupted and I have to start again. That's why I feel a 5m is the perfect power for control (for me). And that's possibly due to my windsurfing background and a tendency to feel more efficient when pumping the wing in a vertical position. I think regardless of wing type, this will happen. I have a 5m Echo as well and that often touches when pumping. It's about 20cm wider than the 5m Slick.
I'll also add that I feel the boom and rigid handles have a better feel for pumping than the loose handles. Yep - probably my skill level again but with a firm well connected handle I think you can control the twist, pitch and yaw of the wing when pumping or just generally sailing.
Not saying that my technique is the most efficient - far from it when you look at those vids above. But it is for me and may be for some others?

Ahhh I see your point here, and it's really just the way you've learnt. Is it right? Maybe not, but it works. And this 100% goes back to your windsurfing history. Whilst a wing is parallel to us, and very flat, this is its most powerful position. I honestly would only ever get my wing like this when on foil and trying it to go fast. Otherwise I'd pump and ride more diagonal. You're riding in a very powered manor, which is why you find it uncomfortable to go bigger in wing span as you catch a tip and rather than the tip just sitting on top of the water. It can flip the wing for you. Try changing it up, just get a cheap skateboard, and go wing around a windy car park with it. Practice moves and you'll be thankful for it.


Also give the new unit a shot, you might like it a bit better.

^^^ is why youre a way better winger than me.

Thanks for the advice tho. I'll have to try and break the bad habits. :)

I have tried the unit. Love it, but the 6m I tried was too wide. Have the 4m and 3m units and they're superb.

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martyj4 said..
^^^ is why youre a way better winger than me.

Thanks for the advice tho. I'll have to try and break the bad habits. :)

I have tried the unit. Love it, but the 6m I tried was too wide. Have the 4m and 3m units and they're superb.

I gave the 6 unit a try in Hawaii. I was blowing my 5m wing up and had the bladder twist 4-5 times then just blow when pumping it up.

One of the local guys lent me his new 6m unit and I used the 999 on my 44L board. Probably 13-15 knots of wind.
Would of liked to swap to the 799 to see how hard I could send it, but didn't really have the time.

Overall I thought it was a comfortable easy wing to use. Super easy to get on foil, and I too had the bottom of the wing tip catch, but I just had the tip float on the surface. No issue getting on foil. I did however go full power with the wing right flat up next to me, and given there are decent waves where I went - I did catch a tip and have it spin out. I then rented from a local a 5m Slingwing V3. That was 10 psi normal pressure. Made for a really good wing, would rather of tried the 6 to compare. But I felt both were good wings.

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martyj4 said..
^^^ is why youre a way better winger than me.

Thanks for the advice tho. I'll have to try and break the bad habits. :)

I have tried the unit. Love it, but the 6m I tried was too wide. Have the 4m and 3m units and they're superb.

I understand the new Slick will have the Unit outline but with a boom. I really like the Slick, coming from a windsurf background it just seems logical. I do catch the tip of the 5.5 Slick when pumping even at 180cm tall,anything wider would be a real pain. The 2.5 Slick is a dream to use but only on boards not much less volume than your body weight.

There are quite a few different opinions floating around on what size gear to use. No right or wrong choice in my view. Each to their own. I have no need for a wing bigger than 5m
even at 85kg. My board quiver consists of 38L, 75L and 115L. My wing quiver simple at 3.5m and 5.0m. Three Foil quiver of 1000, 1150 and 2200cm2, one mast one tail. This gets me out in all conditions every time I go to the beach. If the wind is light I Sup or go for a FoilDrive. I'm equally happy to chug around on a big foil and small wing or vice versa small foil and big wing. Mowing the lawn on flat water at high speed has it moments but I prefer chasing waves or ocean bump. Bigger foils do this better than bigger wings. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing, 25years windsurfing, kitesurfing and 3 years doing this wingdinging game. Enjoying time on the water whichever equipment your choose go out in is what it is all about. Go check out my Insta famous feed @pete.surfs But hey I'm a just a dad, sponsored by the wife and kids.