Today I tried the stinkbug start. I took a while but I finally got it. I'm 190 lbs with wet suit and was on a 85 liter Naish board. Conditions were 15 to 25 mph side onshore.in Pamlico sound at the outer banks. There is quite a bit of chop. I did fine until it increased to 25 to 30 and the chop became quite heavy. Then... every time I would attempt the start, the windward tip of the wing would get submerged under the chop and it was game over. This happened over and over and eventually drifted back to shore.

Is there some technique I am missing? Any help would be greatly appreciated !

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Strat919 said..
Today I tried the stinkbug start. I took a while but I finally got it. I'm 190 lbs with wet suit and was on a 85 liter Naish board. Conditions were 15 to 25 mph side onshore.in Pamlico sound at the outer banks. There is quite a bit of chop. I did fine until it increased to 25 to 30 and the chop became quite heavy. Then... every time I would attempt the start, the windward tip of the wing would get submerged under the chop and it was game over. This happened over and over and eventually drifted back to shore.

Is there some technique I am missing? Any help would be greatly appreciated !

Make sure the board and leading edge of the wing is perpendicular to the wind. You want wind flowing underneath the wing to keep the tip out of the water. If you aim even slightly downwind you start moving with the wind and the tip will bury.

Thanks:) I understand what you are saying, but shouldn't it self align once you have the middle strut pinned to the board prior to getting up on knees? Also in big chop the wave gets to the wing tip before the board rolls with the wave.

I made a mistake in my post. It's not the windward tip. It's the wing tip furthest out in front of the board.

Sit on the board (surfboard style) perpendicular to the wind and then start the Stinkbug real quick. When you go under the wing and lay down, try to have the strut parallel with the wind (and chop direction). That way when you lift up strut front hand to grab rear handle with your free hand, you get clean lift and make an easy grab and get to your feet while directing the wing into a more vertical position to start the forward drive.

Haha feel for you so much, yesterday had a four hour session on a tiny board in heavy chop with very gusty winds, I was so angry I nearly tore my board in half! lol, I found when you get both hands on the wing handles and are ready to get up, take a look upwind and try to time your standup inbetween swells, its really hard but helps, also need to time it to catch a good gust, then I found with my wing I have to stand up and lift up my hands as high as possible as fast as possible, yesterday I was bombing along and getting cocky and hit the front tip on the water and ended up carving all the way around my upside down sail - I was pretty annoyed but I just learned to be more and more precise and the last hour of the session was magic - went home so tired - so I am sure you can do it - keep practicing it will come

After your comments and watching a few videos, I think my problem was that I was pinning the wing to the board with both my front and and back hand. I was thinking that would be the most stable, but now I'm thinking I should not pin the back hand to the board and just reach for the back handle while lifting the wing. Maybe by pinning both front and back, it was causing the wing to not have enough freedom of movement... allowing water to get on the wing tip. Make sense?

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Strat919 said..
After your comments and watching a few videos, I think my problem was that I was pinning the wing to the board with both my front and and back hand. I was thinking that would be the most stable, but now I'm thinking I should not pin the back hand to the board and just reach for the back handle while lifting the wing. Maybe by pinning both front and back, it was causing the wing to not have enough freedom of movement... allowing water to get on the wing tip. Make sense?

Yep was about to write just that. Front handle in thumb, fingers around front board rail - pinning strut to board . rest of the wing strut in the water.

so at this stage as hilly said your board is at right angles to wind and strut is para to the wind.

keep really low, body crouched right down over knees. Can stay like that for ever.

then lift knees, front hand together - as you grab the back handle.

dont piss about on your knees . straight to your feet. Almost one motion to your feet.
Lift knees/ front hand, grab back handle - then to your feet.

... I'm also start the entire thing sitting on board like a SB. Grab front handle and straight down into position. I bring in my arms and have forearms running down length of board together. Good for stability. Sometimes I might kinda grab the second handle with my back hand if she's really choppy.

Good advice above but no substitute for practice

Great advice here , I've been struggling a bit recently winging in more swell and choppy water over our winter. I seem to get tipped off more and struggle to balance when starting , I had float in a couple of days ago because I just got so tired and frustrated from falling off .

Submerging the leeward tip as you come up to the knees is not uncommon (in my experience). Good advice from the others on how to manage it.
I would add that you get better at identifying it very quickly and then managing it. E.g. when it happens to me now I am almost always able to rotate my arms hard (push down on the leeward hand and push up with the windward hand) whilst getting up on my knees (one motion) and in that way you can release the wing. I do that when on my knees (as you will not be able to get up onto your feet if the tip is in the water).

My start position is this, then I move the backhand to the the right handle as I'm getting up with a twisting motion that @Arthur is talking about, sometimes the chop just flips me right off the board at this stage, sometimes the chop catches me getting up and sometimes the leeward wing tip catches chop as I'm pumping - when my mates go flying by I just shout out that I'm enjoying the swim

Hello,

I suggest you try the cowboy start:
- Sit on your board, surf style
- Take the wing with both hands, bring it above you, generate a forward pull by aligning the center of pull of the wing above the nose of the board. Front arm fully stretched, back arm regulating the power
- Use the wing, your back arm (+ chop) to lift yourself a bit and slide one knee on the board and immediately after place the foot under your buttock, lift yourself again for the other knee / foot.
- You are now on your knees, legs parallel with the rails, ready to stand up and go.The advantages of this method are:
- You sit on the board > you see the waves / the gusts coming
- You have the wing in the hands during the hole process
- You can grab the board with your legs, cowboy style and stay on the board in moderate waves (and white water), do not forget to lean forward before the wave is hitting
- It is quick but you can comfortably wait for the gust if necessary (or come back to shore if the wind drops)
- The legs parallel with the board are, I believe, the most stable position on a small board: that's the widest area with the most further apart contact points you can make with the board

Tips:
- Don't forget to lean forward and bring the wing in front of you, especially if you are on a low volume board (so you don't fall backwards)
- You can slightly sink the board to one side with you butt before you slide your knee on the board (same side)
A really wide board might limit the application of this technique...
- Slide a bit to the back of your board between the sitting and the kneeing on the board

It is very strange I never saw any tutorial of this precise method. While I am convinced this cowboy style start is commonly used by lots of wingers...
I might try to make a tutorial myself one of these days.

Cheers

R?gis

Thanks everyone for your replies. I'm getting a feel for all the tips and will try a few different ways. I'm thinking by not pinning my back hand to the board, it will help. Also... the chop was so big and close together, maybe it was suppose to be difficult.

Something I'd like to mention regarding a regular water start... not the stinkbug. I can get balanced by pushing down on the leading edge... no problem. I'm using a slick with a boom and it is difficult reaching underneath to grab the boom to get the hands in position to raise the wing. By the time I get all that done I'm off balance. I saw in a video where the guy simply left his front hand on the front luff handle and popped the wing up and then quickly grabbed the front handle with his back hand. This was enough to gain some speed for stability. Then quickly transferred his hands to normal positions. No fumbling around while unstable initially. I haven't tried this yet but it seems brilliant to me. Maybe some of you already do this.

I'm still pretty much a beginner... not jibing on foil yet but able to cruise with no problem. I have been learning on a 140 liter Naish board and also have a 110 and the 85 liter. I went to the beach and left my 110 at home thinking I would just use my 140 liter. My 85 liter just stays in my truck. I felt brave yesterday and thought I'd give the 85 a go for the first time. Once I got it up it seems pretty easy... it's just the initial waterstart that's difficult. Wish I had my 110 liter with me which would be more logical.

Thanks again for all your help:) Cheers from the states!

I haven't yet figured out why there is a need for that extra step, that laying down on a board. If it's windy you could try this method:



If it's even more windier then one day, when already using smaller and narrower boards, you can use this:



And when it's not windy just align the board almost perpendicular to the wind, rest the wing downwind of you, get to the knees first while the wing is still in the water (you can lean on the wing for additional balance when needed) and then on one knee, and only then deal with the wing. Easier with the wings that have longer handles that allow you to slide your hands to a perfect place, or with wings with a boom. Works for me with 32 L, 40 L, and bigger boards.

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regisurf said..
Hello,

I suggest you try the cowboy start:
- Sit on your board, surf style
- Take the wing with both hands, bring it above you, generate a forward pull by aligning the center of pull of the wing above the nose of the board. Front arm fully stretched, back arm regulating the power
- Use the wing, your back arm (+ chop) to lift yourself a bit and slide one knee on the board and immediately after place the foot under your buttock, lift yourself again for the other knee / foot.
- You are now on your knees, legs parallel with the rails, ready to stand up and go.The advantages of this method are:
- You sit on the board > you see the waves / the gusts coming
- You have the wing in the hands during the hole process
- You can grab the board with your legs, cowboy style and stay on the board in moderate waves (and white water), do not forget to lean forward before the wave is hitting
- It is quick but you can comfortably wait for the gust if necessary (or come back to shore if the wind drops)
- The legs parallel with the board are, I believe, the most stable position on a small board: that's the widest area with the most further apart contact points you can make with the board

Tips:
- Don't forget to lean forward and bring the wing in front of you, especially if you are on a low volume board (so you don't fall backwards)
- You can slightly sink the board to one side with you butt before you slide your knee on the board (same side)
A really wide board might limit the application of this technique...
- Slide a bit to the back of your board between the sitting and the kneeing on the board

It is very strange I never saw any tutorial of this precise method. While I am convinced this cowboy style start is commonly used by lots of wingers...
I might try to make a tutorial myself one of these days.

Cheers

R?gis

Theres a couple of videos for the "rodeo" start on youtube:
Rodeo Start on a small sinker Wingfoil Board. Easiest way to get up on a sinker board. - YouTube


I'm not young enough - or good enough - to try that, but on the quieter days i sometimes sit surf-style with the wing overhead looking for the gust, then lean forward with the hands holding the front of the board and swing my legs up into stinkbug, and then get started.

I do the rodeo start a lot just slower. One knee at a time. It's more shallow depth friendly as your legs start out in the water, decreasing the weight on the board, and you load up the wing and start moving before putting it all up there where the stink bug your all on it not moving for a second sinking a lot lower.

it does require a good degree of knee
mobility. I have to do a specific knee first by hooking a foot on the board. Putting on a 3/2 makes it hard. My 4/3 makes it worse.

Yeh got a mate who does the rodeo. Tried it. I would need to do a course in yoga or Pilates. I literally count 1000 (in crouch mode), 2000 (lift wing, knees ), 3000 on feet. 3 odd seconds.

With my "big" wings (5m,4m) i can pull the standard stinkbug with no problem no matter the chop conditions.
With 3.5 and 3 it gets harder because the downwind tip will dig under very easily.
I like how the rodeo start looks but i use a Donjoy carbon kneebrace and an 85l board so it is hard to go to knees from sitting without hurting myself or the board.
I have to experiment with the technique a bit, maybe doing 1 knee first and then the other as posted above.

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Strat919 said..
Then... every time I would attempt the start, the windward tip of the wing would get submerged under the chop and it was game over. This happened over and over and eventually drifted back to shore.

Is there some technique I am missing? Any help would be greatly appreciated !

When you set up for the stinkbug start, point the board 45 degrees upwind. Then when you are holding the wing as you climb on the board, point the wing straight upwind. Only when you're on your knees and lift the wing the board straightens out.

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Theres a couple of videos for the "rodeo" start on youtube:
Rodeo Start on a small sinker Wingfoil Board. Easiest way to get up on a sinker board. - YouTube

I'm not young enough - or good enough - to try that, but on the quieter days i sometimes sit surf-style with the wing overhead looking for the gust, then lean forward with the hands holding the front of the board and swing my legs up into stinkbug, and then get started.

Thanks for this video kiwiupover

I had a look at some of the other videos by the same author and this one helped me to visualise the movement of the legs and knees.


I currently do the stinkbug on my 60 L board (82 kg) but I like the look of the rodeo start to overcome some of the limitations of the stink bug.
Good thread, thank you OP.

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eppo said..
Yeh got a mate who does the rodeo. Tried it. I would need to do a course in yoga or Pilates. I literally count 1000 (in crouch mode), 2000 (lift wing, knees ), 3000 on feet. 3 odd seconds.

When you're crouching how do you stabilise the board? By holding the windward handle with your thumb and the fingers around the windward edge of the board?

Also, do you slide onto the board from behind? And when you do this are you already holding the wing or do you get onto the board first and then get the wing in position?

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ArthurAlston said..

eppo said..
Yeh got a mate who does the rodeo. Tried it. I would need to do a course in yoga or Pilates. I literally count 1000 (in crouch mode), 2000 (lift wing, knees ), 3000 on feet. 3 odd seconds.

When you're crouching how do you stabilise the board? By holding the windward handle with your thumb and the fingers around the windward edge of the board?

Also, do you slide onto the board from behind? And when you do this are you already holding the wing or do you get onto the board first and then get the wing in position?

Yeh to the first question. Thumb and fingers.
but also I have my entire forearms running down length of board parralell and flat down hard on the board. Imagine a triathlete riding a bike with those handle bar bracket thingies where they rest their forearms in. That is key I think.

so my elbows are locked into my knees as well. With that and the strut across board and the rest in the water - very stable.


Sometimes get on the board from the side sometimes from the back. Sometimes slide, sometimes lift and plop my ass sideways on board. Doesn't matter really. I just keep a short length of leash. Then again sometimes I just let it all flay out if light enough. I'm end I'm sitting SB in the line up style. Grab flag handle. Then grab first wing handle in thumb and 1,2,3.


.. then again sometimes I just get on board and straight to knees with no stink if it's not choppy or just to change it up.

. when using a full sinker sometimes I just lie flat on board and with wing in place already just kind of duck dive it to get into the stink.


doesn't matter really what's important is getting into the stink bud position.

Thanks. Horses for courses. Small variations of the theme that are dependant on the conditions. Makes perfect sense.