Hi there omniscient foil lords!

So I've got myself a sinker board, approximately half my weight + 10%, Starboard Foil Surf V2 2023 5'2" x 20.5" / 48L. Looks amazing and extremely light. To optmimize easy take-off the first time I'm figuring that I need solid wind, and a hand wing making me almost overpowered in at least solid 14-16 knots wind, which is approaching. And yes, a good rodeo or stindbug start as well. Guess that will take some time to dial in. Question: do I need also to consider size of hydrofoil wings to optimize easy take-off the first time? I do want to use my Axis ART 899 and p350 rear in winds in the expected wind range. Or should I go for a bigger front wing to get more lift?

The real hurdle is getting the board to the surface. Once the board is there, you should be able to get it moving enough to engage the foil. Definitely overpower your sail - particularly as you are learning the new board. I would say keep your foil the same as what you would ride on a floater board. I don't think a larger foil is helpful, and eventually you might even undersize your foil to compensate for the overpowered sail.

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FarNorthWest said..
Hi there omniscient foil lords!

So I've got myself a sinker board, approximately half my weight + 10%, Starboard Foil Surf V2 2023 5'2" x 20.5" / 48L. Looks amazing and extremely light. To optmimize easy take-off the first time I'm figuring that I need solid wind, and a hand wing making me almost overpowered in at least solid 14-16 knots wind, which is approaching. And yes, a good rodeo or stindbug start as well. Guess that will take some time to dial in. Question: do I need also to consider size of hydrofoil wings to optimize easy take-off the first time? I do want to use my Axis ART 899 and p350 rear in winds in the expected wind range. Or should I go for a bigger front wing to get more lift?

yes, 14-16 knots will help. I don't think you need a bigger foil nor wing.
Just use what you would use on your regular board for the same conditions.

If you can get the board to the surface you can take off just as with your regular board.
If you try at a location with gusty/spotty conditions it might hamper your attempts.
5.2 is quite long, which should help as well.
I am on a 45L based on the same weight/2 + 10% formula.

I would say the biggest thing is patience especially if you are in lighter winds. I have a 45l sinker that is roughly 1/2 my weight. It sinks quite a bit so if I try to stand in a lull I'm bell/waist deep. No good if I don't have a lot of water depth to work with. Even if I can slog like this, it takes quite a long gust to get the board to the surface. better just to wait for a gust to get to standing... I knee start this board and keep the wing on the water as a pontoon until the wind hits.

That said, I only rode this board a couple times and prefer the relative security of a 60 or 75l board... but the 45 feel pretty amazing too.

like everything it takes water time and plenty of frustration to begin with. def do stink bud start to get board to surface quickly. unless it's tonkin then standing starts are possible. i wouldn't bother learning in lighter wind - it has no power - it's not a linear relationship to speed of wind remember.




i always found you needed a wing size bigger than you'd always use in certain wing conditions. except if it's a consistent strong thermal.



unlike others i'd be also maybe trying a bigger front to start with. nothing worse than getting the board to the surface on a gust then not getting on the foil quick enough - wind dies - or your cardio gives out - and you fall back again.

If you are going to learn in 15 knots, go big on the foil and wing. Once you get your technique down pat (getting on your knees and initial planing) you will be able to downsize.

I tried this for the first time and had relatively good success - first attempt I just popped up... solid offshore 20-25kn on a 44L at 70kg, so similar domain, I was pretty surprised.

Turns out the foil was hitting the sand, allowing me to balance more easily at the critical moment. Deeper it was harder, but got it after a few goes. Further out also meant more chop which complicated the knee transition.

Easier than I expected, waiting to try it in cross shore as I'm sure that will be much harder. Worthwhile if the wind is pumping, so much more fun on the small board.

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cornwallis said..
I tried this for the first time and had relatively good success - first attempt I just popped up... solid offshore 20-25kn on a 44L at 70kg, so similar domain, I was pretty surprised.

Turns out the foil was hitting the sand, allowing me to balance more easily at the critical moment. Deeper it was harder, but got it after a few goes. Further out also meant more chop which complicated the knee transition.

Easier than I expected, waiting to try it in cross shore as I'm sure that will be much harder. Worthwhile if the wind is pumping, so much more fun on the small board.

yeh . 70kg on a 44L . i wouldn't be making out how easy it all is - your board wouldn't sink a great deal at that weight volume ratio. 70kg try a 34/35 litre ????

go on and split hairs, the relevant point was that it was sitting in the sand making it easier, not the volume. At that ratio it was easier than expected, that's all I said. I have a 32L prone board and I expect it to be easy too if the wind is strong.
????

just had first day on 50 litre board... FFB nugget... no straps... i'm 80kg... only other board i'd ridden is 108 litre DW board... ie. from +30 litres to -30 litres!... it was mega gusty (and light 0 - 16knts) lake storm wind... terrible to get board to the surface... was on ART1099 / 5M glide... managed to knee start and get on foil a bunch of times but pretty much destroyed my wetsuit knees... while i hardly have any experience with sinkers (besides 70-80L waveboards) , i don't think i'm going to bother knee starting anymore... can anyone recommend a technique better than...

more wind or just steady wind would have made it SOOOO much easier... i spent prolly 70-80% of time in water waiting for gusts... then had to act fast when it finally showed up... next time i won't take the sinker unless it's steady... at least until i get my skills up

Half your weight + 10% floats quite well. If the wind is light, using a bigger foil in the beginning helps a lot. I wait for a gust, then kneel on the board, raise the wing, put front foot on the board first and then stand up and go. When doing so the board does not sink deep.

631 cm2 front wing, 155 cm2 stabiliser, 3.0 m2 wing, 32 litres board, 72 kg. Not much wind to speak of.



And the same board with a 880 cm2 front wing, with a 3.6 m2 wing, and a bit more wind. Notice how effortlessly it gets going here.

Thanks for all replies!

Tried the board today in varying winds and got up after a couple of hundred meters of getting use to the board. And then a few times more, so a little bit better than I've expected. Went with the ART 999 and 350 rear. After a while the wind was just too bad so I changed to my floater. As many have pointed out, the hard bit is to get the board up to the surface. Once kneeling and up the rest is very doable. With the right wind this should work out. Really fun with the more exact feeling of the smaller board, even though my thighs are not that happy after squeezing the board in the rodeo pose.

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cornwallis said..
go on and split hairs, the relevant point was that it was sitting in the sand making it easier, not the volume. At that ratio it was easier than expected, that's all I said. I have a 32L prone board and I expect it to be easy too if the wind is strong.
????

i'm not splitting hairs lol. the difference is exponentially harder as you may find out.


but honestly i think your weight to volume ratio is spot on and sensible. half your body weight sink starting just bloody hard work unless it's a true tonkin thermal breeze. spend half your time not wanting to fall off!! i know a lot of the pros at your weight in comps doing the trickery actually use 45-50L sinkers - small enough to spin/flip/jump but infinetely much easier to get up and going during heats.