Anyone tried both SAB and Armstrong HA similarly sized wings?
I'm riding SAB W1000 (987 cm2, 10:1 ) / S399 / kite fuse 647. I really like this setup for winging. When I see videos of people riding Armstrong HA925 (or HA725) it's really hard to believe how easily they can pump back to the break (lets assume it's prone foiling only, to exclude the wing wing component).
With my SAB setup you can technically do it if you put 100% what you've got but it's not going to last, you'll burn out pretty quick.
Is there a noticeable performance difference btw the 2 or it's more or less the same?

Yeah I have moved from Armstrong 1125 to sabfoil w1000

Holding the w1000 over the 925 they are almost identical. I think the w1000 is a slightly thinner profile.
I find the w1000/399 a much better balanced ride. Even foot pressure. You don't have to mess around with shims it just felt way more balanced if that makes sense. I found the 1125 would pitch forward at speed no matter what I did with playing with shims, v tail, kd tail, 232. Maybe they have it right with the new ha195 but I just had enough. Listening to other people they have been running -2 or -3 to overcome the pitch. In saying that that Armstrong is better build quality and weighs 300g lighter than the complete sabfoil.
when I prone foil the w1000 it's really efficient and fast in the waves and has excellent glide. It can pump just as easy as the 1125 but I have found if I get any head wind I struggle to pump back out. It stops me in my tracks. That could also be my ability. If there is no wind I can link 3 for 1 waves no dramas. I'll have to swap out in the water with a buddy that has a 925 to have a direct comparison as the 1125 is a bigger foil.

overall I'm pretty impressed with the w1000 it's a super smooth well balanced foil.

Thanks for sharing your experience @wicka! The grass is not always greener on the other side in this case I guess.
The same here, never had to deal with any shims, it just works nicely out of the box. Another thing is it takes only 2 screws to remove/swap gliders on SAB, on Armstrong it's way more work/screws and you need to carry a mallet to the beach ?

Yeah that's exactly right! Haha I just got my hands on the new w1110 so I'm exited to try though out prone and on the wing in the coming days. And that will be a much closer comparison to the 1125 Armstrong I was riding before. Slightly bigger holding it over the top.
overall I think the sabfoil is better hense why I'm now selling my Armstrong kit. They were the first to bring out the proper high aspect wings with the w1000. I'm keen to see what else comes out. But who knows. Every new foil each company brings out seems to be the best. Everyone on here is also raving about the new gofoil rs series. You really can't go wrong with any of the newer foils that are out now.

Wicka, thanks for the info and please let us know about the 1110, how it goes, early planing, speed, turning and pumpability/glide.

Was talking with Sam at PPC a few weeks back and he mentioned he's using SAB over Armstrong at the moment because he likes them for for the outright speed he can get :-)

Any issues with foil hum with the SAB foils?

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dejavu said..
Any issues with foil hum with the SAB foils?

On W1000 no hum at all, W945 has some hum-ish noise, but it's barely noticeable.

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omg said..
Wicka, thanks for the info and please let us know about the 1110, how it goes, early planing, speed, turning and pumpability/glide.

Had a couple of sessions now on the w1110 and I really like it! Would be an awesome down winding wing! It really shines with the insane glide, pump and low stall speed!
Winging. It's my new low wind wing. I weigh 82kgs and ride a 57L board. I can get it going on my 5m wing in only 10-12 knots! Once on foil I can keep it going in next to no wind. it's super efficient and can pump for ages! I'm yet to try and dock start it but I think I should be able to do it as it has a super low stall speed. Only down fall is it doesn't turn great because of the span.

I took it out prone only once and it's the best pumping foil I've ridden. Even able to get multiple link ups in 7 knots onshore conditions and I usually really struggle! Downside once again is the turn ability but that's to be expected for the span. I think with a few more sessions and I figure it out more I should be able to get it to turn more but so far I'm pretty happy with it..
comparing it to the 1125 from Armstrong I think it's a much better wing. It's 1180cm2 but glides and pumps way better than the 1125. It probably sits somewhere between that and the 1325 but I haven't ridden that so I can't compare.

I can,t compare to the HA Armstrongs because I never tried them, but the 1110 is for me a pretty awesome wing.
I bought last year plenty of foils and sols some as well, but I,m pretty sure this one is a keeper.

I,m almost a 100kg, skillevel joe-very-average and have the W1100/945/940/W1000 as well and owned but sold the 950 and 799BP.For my weight I need with the W1000 quite some wind and although i,m getting more and more used to it, it isnt an really easy foil for me like the 940 that I use in the same wind speeds when the conditions are more demanding.The 1110 is presented as the W1000 bigger brother and in a way I see that in it, but think about it like the bigger and older more friendly brother with better manners.
Pretty easy to get going once you know understand how it works, pretty fast too and low stallspeed. In the Netherlands where I live we have plenty of days with 5 and 6m and small slow short period windswell. When there is a bit of steepness or height behind it the 945 works well but is often too slow and drops off the back. With the 1110 I had 1minute+ rides on bumps between knee and hip high!The only foil that impressed me that much with glide and speed was the Kujira. I think this one outperforms the 1440 in glide and is at least as fast as the 1210) and that in lighter wind.
Yes she is wide and won,t turn very tight, but a wiggle to left and to right to stay on the bumps (and to be honest, that is what I do most of the time): no problemo.
With the 399 she is fast and loose, but personally I prefer here with the 425stab for a bit more security. When speeding you feel that ads a bit of drag over the 399 but for my level the 425 makes it a way easier light/lighter wind foil.

Hi,

It's good to hear such positive feedback on the W1110...

So far, the only feedback I could find was in this video, which seems very promising, but it can always be misleading; it could be very abnormally flat water spot with strong gusts to get going.; video could be a colleciton of the few minutes of flight, leaving aside the schlogging time..


At this point, I have about 15-18 sessions of winging, mostly on the W1100, about 2 on the 950. My largest wing is a Strike 5.0m. The board is a quatro 90L. My jibe is in progress, success rate of about 30%, sometimes a little more if the wind cooperates. No tack yet. I am relatively in good condition, I do not mind pumping! I am riding on a lake (not much sweel, gusty wind).


From a top speed and low-end perspective, how does it compare with the W1100

What would be the optimal light wind wing for someone 80kg suring that front wing ? Does it still make sense to use 7M or 8M wing for light wind (i.e F-One CWC), or would a 5.0 / 6.0m be enough ( I have a strike 5.0 for now, looking to add a 7.0 ... wondering if I should spend money on the W1110 instead)

Is the W1110 much harder / technical to ride than the W950 or W1100 (assuming a wind in the sweet spot of each wing) ?



Does it has very sharp edges like the W1000 ? Or are they much better. I saw the video of the W1000 and that looks scary considering I can sometime hit the foil when I fall (trying to swapping feet or tring a tack, etc.) .

Any chance I could use de W1110 with the W483 without serious sacrificing too much performance ? It is quite an expansive wing to add to my quiver, since I have to buy a new fuselage AND a new stabilizer. At least if I can save the Stabilizer at first, that would be great.

Thanks!

From a top speed and low-end perspective, how does it compare with the W1100:
Last session on the lake I was using my 5m and the 1110. My surfbuddy, probably the same level as yours, was using a 6m and the 950. Both flying I was crossing the lake aprox twice as fast.
What would be the optimal light wind wing for someone 80kg suring that front wing ? Does it still make sense to use 7M or 8M wing for light wind (i.e F-One CWC), or would a 5.0 / 6.0m be enough ( I have a strike 5.0 for now, looking to add a 7.0 ... wondering if I should spend money on the W1110 instead)
I,m not sure/doubt the 1110 gets you quicker going as the 1100 because that still is a low end beast. The difference is once you fly the 1110 is a LOT faster and has more glide through the lulls and flies in insane angles upwind. Lightwind wing: this depends imo very much on your local conditions. I live in the netherlands and right now recovering from surfersear surgery 2 weeks ago, but normally we have at least 3 times a week and often more days that an 6m is big enough for me. If you live in a less windy place, I would go for 7meter.


Is the W1110 much harder / technical to ride than the W950 or W1100 (assuming a wind in the sweet spot of each wing) ?
It is a more difficult foil to control as both, but because you go faster and have more glide its also givers a bit more time. I would probably stick a couple of months to the 950 till your succes-rate on jibes is higher. Switch too soon makes life also more difficult.

Does it has very sharp edges like the W1000 ? Or are they much better. I saw the video of the W1000 and that looks scary considering I can sometime hit the foil when I fall (trying to swapping feet or tring a tack, etc.) .It is sharp. Not sure as sharp as the W1000 but a lot sharper as my surffoils (945 and 940). Feet: I wear surfboots that is a lot saver.

Any chance I could use de W1110 with the W483 without serious sacrificing too much performance ? It is quite an expansive wing to add to my quiver, since I have to buy a new fuselage AND a new stabilizer. At least if I can save the Stabilizer at first, that would be great.

I haven't tried that, but with the 425 I already noticed more drag and less speed as with the 399. The 483 is another size bigger so not sure you want that.
My advice would to first get more control over your current set, then ad a 425 stab to it. This makes your current set faster and looser and is pretty good and offers a lot more control as a 399 or 370 when you ad a faster foil like the 1110, or a 940. Small stabs are great and offering more performance but are also more demanding. don't underestimate there effect.

Hi Jeroensurf,

Thanks! This leaves one real question : At your level, do you plan on still using the W1100?

I keep it, but not sure how often i,m gonna use it, because the 1110 needs a tiny bit more wind, but once you go it is a lot more fun.Right now I have to stay out of the water for at least 5 weeks but its also winter here. Water around 3degree, air 3-8 and sometimes freezing. That arent the days I go out in extreme low wind but when it is warmer, sunny weather there might be days that the 1100 has an low end advantage over the 1110, but lets see.

Hey Jeroensurf,

Do you find that you have to mount the mast further forward with the W1110 / S425 on the kite 647 fuselage compared to say the W1100 on the surf fuselage? If so, by how much?

I,m not sure about that.
I haven,t used the 1100 for a 2-3? months.
It has been windy here and its winter in the netherlands (temp between freezing to +10 on a warm day), making me a bit picky about the days and less motivated to get out on the 1100 while I can go out 3-4 times a week on smaller stuff (799-945-940-W1000).Besides that I,m notorious (too) heavy on the frontfoot, like 60% in straight line and even more on a wave but the last 2 months i,m trying to get more to an 50-50 straight line and maybe an 40% in straight line to get that more 50-50 balance on a wave in the surf so moving my bast slightly on more and more to the back.

Right now I,m recovering from surfers ear surgery so won,t be in the water before end of feb anyway but hope to tell you in march-april about it :)

On the question of mast positions relative to the 1100 (with 483)
- 1110 with 399 is 5.5cm further forward
- 1000 with 399 is 4.5cm further forward
I am 92kg on the 88l FG and love the 1110 - this is my go to until there is over 25mph.

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Jeroensurf said..
I,m not sure about that.
I haven,t used the 1100 for a 2-3? months.
It has been windy here and its winter in the netherlands (temp between freezing to +10 on a warm day), making me a bit picky about the days and less motivated to get out on the 1100 while I can go out 3-4 times a week on smaller stuff (799-945-940-W1000).Besides that I,m notorious (too) heavy on the frontfoot, like 60% in straight line and even more on a wave but the last 2 months i,m trying to get more to an 50-50 straight line and maybe an 40% in straight line to get that more 50-50 balance on a wave in the surf so moving my bast slightly on more and more to the back.

Right now I,m recovering from surfers ear surgery so won,t be in the water before end of feb anyway but hope to tell you in march-april about it :)

Good luck with your recovery. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on it.
I ride strapless so it's not too critical, but my mast is currently all the way forward, riding mostly the 950/483 and very occasionally the 1100/450, which are pretty well balanced with my board.

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norfolkfoiler said..
On the question of mast positions relative to the 1100 (with 483)
- 1110 with 399 is 5.5cm further forward
- 1000 with 399 is 4.5cm further forward
I am 92kg on the 88l FG and love the 1110 - this is my go to until there is over 25mph.

Thanks for this and especially your preciseness

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natho6026961 said..

Jeroensurf said..
I,m not sure about that.
I haven,t used the 1100 for a 2-3? months.
It has been windy here and its winter in the netherlands (temp between freezing to +10 on a warm day), making me a bit picky about the days and less motivated to get out on the 1100 while I can go out 3-4 times a week on smaller stuff (799-945-940-W1000).Besides that I,m notorious (too) heavy on the frontfoot, like 60% in straight line and even more on a wave but the last 2 months i,m trying to get more to an 50-50 straight line and maybe an 40% in straight line to get that more 50-50 balance on a wave in the surf so moving my bast slightly on more and more to the back.

Right now I,m recovering from surfers ear surgery so won,t be in the water before end of feb anyway but hope to tell you in march-april about it :)

Good luck with your recovery. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on it.
I ride strapless so it's not too critical, but my mast is currently all the way forward, riding mostly the 950/483 and very occasionally the 1100/450, which are pretty well balanced with my board.

Hi Natho. I'm riding the SAB Foil 950 as well. I was thinking of getting the 1100 for lighter days. Is there much of an advantage using the 1100 in lighter winds or is the difference only marginal?

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DukeSilver said..

natho6026961 said..

Jeroensurf said..
I,m not sure about that.
I haven,t used the 1100 for a 2-3? months.
It has been windy here and its winter in the netherlands (temp between freezing to +10 on a warm day), making me a bit picky about the days and less motivated to get out on the 1100 while I can go out 3-4 times a week on smaller stuff (799-945-940-W1000).Besides that I,m notorious (too) heavy on the frontfoot, like 60% in straight line and even more on a wave but the last 2 months i,m trying to get more to an 50-50 straight line and maybe an 40% in straight line to get that more 50-50 balance on a wave in the surf so moving my bast slightly on more and more to the back.

Right now I,m recovering from surfers ear surgery so won,t be in the water before end of feb anyway but hope to tell you in march-april about it :)

Good luck with your recovery. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on it.
I ride strapless so it's not too critical, but my mast is currently all the way forward, riding mostly the 950/483 and very occasionally the 1100/450, which are pretty well balanced with my board.

Hi Natho. I'm riding the SAB Foil 950 as well. I was thinking of getting the 1100 for lighter days. Is there much of an advantage using the 1100 in lighter winds or is the difference only marginal?

The low end of the 1100 is pretty phenomenal (almost instant liftoff) and you can also get a semi decent speed, but I am finding it a bit on the slow side for general cruising and turning and much prefer the 950 if the wind's in the low to mid teens and upwards. I prefer to go a big wing with the 950 rather than change up the foil if the wind drops off a bit (I usually ride 4m wasp but also have a 4.5m Ensis which is pretty gutsy).

The 1100 has meant I can get out on the water in very marginal conditions and has been great for learning. The difference is probably only a few knots in the end but can mean foiling or schlogging. I haven't tried it yet though for the ocean / slow moving lumps, which is part of the reason I originally got it, and I am only starting to feel confident enough for the open ocean now. Definitely worth giving it a try.

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natho6026961 said..

DukeSilver said..

natho6026961 said..

Jeroensurf said..
I,m not sure about that.
I haven,t used the 1100 for a 2-3? months.
It has been windy here and its winter in the netherlands (temp between freezing to +10 on a warm day), making me a bit picky about the days and less motivated to get out on the 1100 while I can go out 3-4 times a week on smaller stuff (799-945-940-W1000).Besides that I,m notorious (too) heavy on the frontfoot, like 60% in straight line and even more on a wave but the last 2 months i,m trying to get more to an 50-50 straight line and maybe an 40% in straight line to get that more 50-50 balance on a wave in the surf so moving my bast slightly on more and more to the back.

Right now I,m recovering from surfers ear surgery so won,t be in the water before end of feb anyway but hope to tell you in march-april about it :)

Good luck with your recovery. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on it.
I ride strapless so it's not too critical, but my mast is currently all the way forward, riding mostly the 950/483 and very occasionally the 1100/450, which are pretty well balanced with my board.

Hi Natho. I'm riding the SAB Foil 950 as well. I was thinking of getting the 1100 for lighter days. Is there much of an advantage using the 1100 in lighter winds or is the difference only marginal?

The low end of the 1100 is pretty phenomenal (almost instant liftoff) and you can also get a semi decent speed, but I am finding it a bit on the slow side for general cruising and turning and much prefer the 950 if the wind's in the low to mid teens and upwards. I prefer to go a big wing with the 950 rather than change up the foil if the wind drops off a bit (I usually ride 4m wasp but also have a 4.5m Ensis which is pretty gutsy).

The 1100 has meant I can get out on the water in very marginal conditions and has been great for learning. The difference is probably only a few knots in the end but can mean foiling or schlogging. I haven't tried it yet though for the ocean / slow moving lumps, which is part of the reason I originally got it, and I am only starting to feel confident enough for the open ocean now. Definitely worth giving it a try.

Great, thanks mate. Yep, I really like the 950 too, buts it's the only wing I've used for dinging. I'm on a 5m Wasp and initially was struggling to get up until it was a steady 15 or 16kts. I'm about 17-20 sessions in to it now and I'm starting to feel I am improving my ability to pump up onto foil in less wind. Probably a combo of improving fitness and technique. I think I'll try and demo the 1100.

With the 1100 you win a few knots in low end, comparable with getting an 1m bigger wing, making it a rather cheap option to push more in lighter wind . Getting an 6 or 7 costs at least twice as much.It also has an extremely low stall speed but lose some top end speed compared to the 950.I haven,t used it for a while because its winter here, but last summer cruising with the 1100 and a 6m while nobody else was able to get going on the lake was a bless :) Just keep relaxed cruising in your head, enjoy the weather, watch the birds when you fly by etc, just don't see it as an performance adrenaline rush wing and it great in what it does.

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Jeroensurf said..
With the 1100 you win a few knots in low end, comparable with getting an 1m bigger wing, making it a rather cheap option to push more in lighter wind . Getting an 6 or 7 costs at least twice as much.It also has an extremely low stall speed but lose some top end speed compared to the 950.I haven,t used it for a while because its winter here, but last summer cruising with the 1100 and a 6m while nobody else was able to get going on the lake was a bless :) Just keep relaxed cruising in your head, enjoy the weather, watch the birds when you fly by etc, just don't see it as an performance adrenaline rush wing and it great in what it does.

I'm more than happy to cruise in light winds. It beats pumping my wing until I'm exhausted trying to get my 950 flying.

In that case you will be really happy :)

It is prob worth noting that the w999 is coming soon which will be the ultimate replacement for the w1100.

i learnt on the w1100, and have replaced it with a quiver of wings that have made it redundant.

I would suggest looking into the w899, it's is my favourite. it's definitely harder to get started in lighter winds, but once it's up.. THE BEST.
My understanding is that the w999 will be faster, more agile and same stall/start speed as w1100.

Hopefully the w999 is pretty much a lightwind and/or heavy rider version of the w899, (there is also a w799 for big winds and lightweights).
Lovin the ding.

So is the 950 relevant at all with the new Balz line up ? Or is it outperformed by the 799/899 on all aspects

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Poimax05 said..
So is the 950 relevant at all with the new Balz line up ? Or is it outperformed by the 799/899 on all aspects

I would say the 945 is closest to the 899.

The 950 is an order version of wing that predates the Balz series. I believe that the 899 will out perform in all aspects ? But I've not compared.

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Poimax05 said..
So is the 950 relevant at all with the new Balz line up ? Or is it outperformed by the 799/899 on all aspects

950 is the worst SAB wing I've tried imho, those winglets don't do much but ventilate on a smallest breach, in most cases not-recoverable. It needs pretty much the same take-off speed as W1000, one would wrongly think W950 is a wing for light days.

I would also highly recommend the w1110 to those who want to go fast but also want to keep things easy. surprisingly it gets going easier than the Balz 899
And is prob slightly faster.
but the 899 wins in the waves and manoeuvres.
you just have to decide if the conditions are worth it.

I wouldnt say the 1110 is a very easy foil compared to the 799 and 950, but its fast in light wind, relative quickly up to plane and its biggest benefit:it has heaps of glide. Have a look at the review of the Axis ART1099 , put a beep when the say Axis and yuou basicly have the review for the SAB 1110. What made it for me not an super easy foil is that its paired with the shorter kite fuse and 399 stab making it more twitchy. With a small shim made from 2 layers of a credit card just to lift the stab a bit I tried it with te 425. a tiny bit slower but more user friendly imo

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Poimax05 said..
So is the 950 relevant at all with the new Balz line up ? Or is it outperformed by the 799/899 on all aspects

On almost everything except glide.

The 799 is almost as quick up as the 950 and the 799 is faster+ turns in half the distanceI haven,t tried the 899 but a friend of me has one and he is a LOT quicker flying with the 899 as with the 799.
Just in glide on a wave/swell you see that the 950 outperforms the 2 Balz foils, but speed,. turnability, grip and predictability the Balz foils are simply better. Also high end: the 950 becomes has an max wind for me, while I can use the Balz799 into silly winds like 35+ knots.Imo the 950 wasn't a bad freeride wing at the time they build it, but the Balz is just next gen performing better and equal in a widfer range...again, except glide.

Artem wrote that the 950 needs pretty much the same take-off speed as W1000, but that is imo very much depending on your weight and maybe skills too.
I,m 96kg+ and need for the W1000 significant more wind as the W1000. For my weight the 1000 needs an 20 knots to work while the 950 works from aprox 15knots.