Im looking for the gruntiest 3m (or 2.5m if I can get away with it) that also behaves well while flagged. Looking at this specifically as a downwind winging setup, where I like using the smallest and lightest wing possible, and really just need the wing to pump onto foil. From there, I just flag and ride downwind with occasional reaches to get farther offshore. I'm happy with my existing quiver for more powered conditions.

Currently considering the Mantis v2 or v3 or Takoon v2 as Im familiar with both these wings in other sizes and they both have a decent amount of grunt and behave well while flagged. I know the Matador is built for this, but I hear pretty negative things about that wing. What has the best grunt and what options should I be considering?

Ideally I would use this wing as low as possible, but Im hesitant to put a number on that given how many different variables are at play (board size, wing size, foil size....). FWIW, I can get my 3.5m to work at 18-20 knots, but ideally I could go lower and/or smaller.

You probably need to benchmark it based on your current wing size up. For exemple, they reported that the 3m Mantis and a 3.5 Takoon and Gong(don't remember wich one) were same size on land than the Mantis 3m. So maybe with dihedral etc...you have different size on land but on water with the projected area no...but that wasn't the case they were both having the same wind range. So this is why if you go from brand to brand, you need to maybe try it first... good luck.It's not uncommon for brand that put a label...model A is for control and model B is a grunty sail(for windsurfing anyways)..then when you lay down the sail side by side the R&D just put 0.5 more on the grunty sail...of the same brand. ;)

Select to expand quote

NordRoi said..
You probably need to benchmark it based on your current wing size up. For exemple, they reported that the 3m Mantis and a 3.5 Takoon and Gong(don't remember wich one) were same size on land than the Mantis 3m. So maybe with dihedral etc...you have different size on land but on water with the projected area no...but that wasn't the case they were both having the same wind range. So this is why if you go from brand to brand, you need to maybe try it first... good luck.It's not uncommon for brand that put a label...model A is for control and model B is a grunty sail(for windsurfing anyways)..then when you lay down the sail side by side the R&D just put 0.5 more on the grunty sail...of the same brand. ;)

Good points. For this reason I wish all wings would report span and chord, but its actually pretty hard to find that info. Thanks

Front handle design and drift stability are very important for this as well. I'd say the Mantis does really well in those categories. Less good in the power handle design though but that can be improved by using a harness, which makes sense for your purpose.

I haven't ridden the V3 however.

The Airush / Starboard Nitro (now N Team ) is a very grunty and super light wing, flags very well but has such a loose canopy that it does flutter a bit. I love it for downwinding.

Some great discussion here! Incl on flagging stability

KT, you can down size them and they behave really well when overpowered. Surf wing.

"I know the Matador is built for this, but I hear pretty negative things about that wing"

Don't believe everything you hear, as we all ride in different conditions and with different styles.

I have a 4m and a 6m LT and haven't had any issues with performance or behavior when flagging.

Mantis V3 2.5m. Crazy powerhouse but you can really tame it down in strong and gusty wind by dropping a psi

Flags and pumps great too

Don't forget that the foil also plays a role for lowering the necessary wing speed, and also now the board with the new DW shapes.
So you do not need to go to huge sails that can prove heavy or cumbersome in flight but also using a low wind foil & board.

People that are exploring the low ends are using a combo of dedicated wing/foil/board

Example with a 100+kg guy :-)
www.instagram.com/p/CrJkHTJIBLp/


Or, a 88kg guy by 7/9 knots of wind with a 5m2 and ... 4m2 sails!

Have tried many wings, and imo Reedin Superwings are some of the most powerful for their size and they are super stable when depowered. Anything over 15mph and the 3.6 is plenty, and I'm on a 50L 4'5" and pretty much always ride the Lift 90 these days. I foil in waves, so my main criteria is that it has to be quiet and predictable while I'm riding waves and these wings do that plus offer tons of power and forward drive. No flippy floppy FOnes here (and I own a 5.5 FOne and love it too). I have a 4.7 Superwing and it honestly could replace the 5.5 easy. They're heavier, but it's a worthwhile tradeoff for the power they have. Looks like some new versions soon too. The only other wing I haven't tried that I'm curious about are the Duotone units, but they're like twice the $.

Select to expand quote

colas said..
Don't forget that the foil also plays a role for lowering the necessary wing speed, and also now the board with the new DW shapes.
So you do not need to go to huge sails that can prove heavy or cumbersome in flight but also using a low wind foil & board.

People that are exploring the low ends are using a combo of dedicated wing/foil/board

Example with a 100+kg guy :-)
www.instagram.com/p/CrJkHTJIBLp/


Or, a 88kg guy by 7/9 knots of wind with a 5m2 and ... 4m2 sails!

I'm separately optimizing for these factors in the setup. Just trying to isolate the wing as a variable for the purposes of this conversation.


For the stated purpose I will be riding a mini downwind board (5'7" long, 20 wide) and an efficient foil setup. Given the difficulty in comparing setups I was hesitant to put a wind range on anything. I'm not necessarily looking for a lightwind wing (I have those) I'm looking for a maximum efficiency / nicely flagging wing (although these characteristics are likely overlapping). For example, I can get good downwind conditions in 15-20 knots (which I wouldn't consider to be super light), and want to use the smallest wing possible.

Thanks for all of the options so far. There are some very promising ideas here. Probably going to see how low I can go with my existing 3.5 before determining whether to get a 3 or a 2.5.