?si=QR3ITRwxNKi4PcL8


www.gong-galaxy.com/en/blogs/magazine/gear-nouveaux-lowkites-plus-et-neutra-v2

V2 Lowkites looking really good. Definitely liking the look of the neutra. Prices are really good especially if you take off the 20% VAT.

I am eyeing off a 3m, if my calculations are correct it comes out about $700 aud. Which would put it well under the threshold for paying import duties? Is the threshold $1000 ? They are saying available from August 6th.

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Youngbreezy said..
They are saying available from August 6th.

Just to be clear, Gong works mostly as a "Produce-and-sell immediately" company.

This means that if you really want a sail by Aug 6th (plus shipping delays to OZ), you should not wait until then to order, as by then all available ones would have been already pre-ordered, if there is a strong demand (of which I have no idea).For all Gong products, the date you see is the estimated shipping date from the Gong French site if you order now.

This is not a push for people to pre-order. It is just to clear any misunderstanding. For instance, I frequently see people ordering gear with some delivery date listed, and panicking when getting back later on the site and seeing the date has been pushed back. But the date of their gear has not changed, only the date for new buyers.

Just be aware that the GONG fabric is much heavier than others. Whether this is an issue depends on what you're looking for in a parawing.

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colas said..

Youngbreezy said..
They are saying available from August 6th.

Just to be clear, Gong works mostly as a "Produce-and-sell immediately" company.

This means that if you really want a sail by Aug 6th (plus shipping delays to OZ), you should not wait until then to order, as by then all available ones would have been already pre-ordered, if there is a strong demand (of which I have no idea).For all Gong products, the date you see is the estimated shipping date from the Gong French site if you order now.

This is not a push for people to pre-order. It is just to clear any misunderstanding. For instance, I frequently see people ordering gear with some delivery date listed, and panicking when getting back later on the site and seeing the date has been pushed back. But the date of their gear has not changed, only the date for new buyers.

Oooh you push a hard bargain there Colas, twisted my arm, basically forced me into it.
Just joking around here of course, definitely an attractive option for the price, can't even buy a second hand pwing for $700 in oz.

I own a v1 Gong Parawing/Lowkite plus 4.0 and have had six sessions with it in the water.

i have to say I am impressed with the quality vs price of Gong products. I also own a gong Droid 4.5 wing which I am very happy with.

having not tested any other Parawing brands out there I cannot compare but it seems they have worked on some issues that the v1 has, namely a collapsing leading edge when the wind picks up and the lack of depowering. Judging from the description of the v2s it can depower well but I still question whether it can do so like a wing can.
all in all I can say that the v1s is a great start for someone trying to learn parawinging and I'm sure the v2s will be a great upgrade.

my progression has been as follows:

session #1: too light wind , no flight
#2: light / no wind with some extreme gusts in between , some short flights and lots of walking back upwind
#3-5: progress with longer flights in flat water, one or two successful jibes and a couple of hand stows and redeploys . Tangles with bridles but nothing that couldn't be fixed in a minute or two . Maintaining position on water and able to make it back to start spot without any walking upwind.
#6: first venture into wind chop and more messy waters. Quickly overpowered on a 4.0 but still could go upwind and have space to maneuver eg stow and pump/ride downwind.

At end of the last session I made the decision to buy a second plus v1 in 3.0 to handle stronger winds.

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maxpwr said..
Just be aware that the GONG fabric is much heavier than others. Whether this is an issue depends on what you're looking for in a parawing.

As I said elsewhere, I think we should always provide numbers.For Gong: 54g/m? triple ripstop canopy. Thus you can compare objectively.

E.g. for F-One:

Yeah looks like they did a lot of good work on the V2's. Interesting to see they are using 2 sets of lines on the leading edge. Then when you depower only the back half of the wing depowers the leading edge stays fully supported. Should give it some good upwind ability and top end.

it still puzzles me how people can buy products from a company who constantly churns out v2, v3, v4...
this fast fashion way of producing and dumping stuff after only few months is so weird, at least for me

Is gongs production schedule different to other companies? I haven't been watching all their releases closely but with their pwings they brought out a few models about a year ago and have now brought out the v2 models about a year later. This seems to follow the same schedule as most other companies?
For pwings I think we're going to see a lot of v2's and v'3's quite quickly just like we did when winging first started up.

I have the Lowkite Plus V1 in size is 2, 4 and 5. So far I'm very pleased with them. I've used them a lot on a mountain board, some on the water foiling and a few times in lighter wind on a large SUP. I haven't had any of them massively overpowered and I haven't had any collapsing at all even when the 5 was quite powered up. In lighter winds occasionally the tips will fold in but it doesn't seem to affect anything and when the wind fills in again they open up. I keep hearing that the heavy fabric means they won't fly in lighter winds but I've had the five out on my mountain board on pavement when the wind was between 6 and 10 knots and had no trouble keeping it in the air. So I'm not sure in the winds I'm hydrofoiling in when the heavier weight material would be a problem other than it might be a little bigger folded up. I was curious about the V2 so I've ordered a 3 m. Since I can order two sizes and still have money left over from buying one of the more expensive ones I'm very happy with what I purchased so far. I'm not one of the more skilled riders but for an average guy they seem to work quite well.

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Youngbreezy said..
Is gongs production schedule different to other companies?

Yes. But more the distribution than the actual production.

Gong has no distributors or importers that would impose rigidities leading to a strict pre-planned production schedule.

Basically, Gong matches the Technology adoption life cycle

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_adoption_life_cycle



[1] When a product is in "Innovators" or "Early adopters" phases (like lowkites now), they just constantly tweak it to follow innovation as close as possible. Basically, each shipment is different, some gear can be changed monthly. And some product changes may be reversed later if not passing the test of time.

[2] When in "Majorities", they are close to an annual cycle.

[3] When in "Leggards" (like SUPs now), they change the looks annually, but actual changes happen less frequently.

Most companies follow [2] and [3]. If [1] is bothering you, this means you would be more comfortable buying more "stabilized" gear than bleeding edge ones. Choose your poison :-)

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Youngbreezy said..
Is gongs production schedule different to other companies? I haven't been watching all their releases closely but with their pwings they brought out a few models about a year ago and have now brought out the v2 models about a year later. This seems to follow the same schedule as most other companies?
For pwings I think we're going to see a lot of v2's and v'3's quite quickly just like we did when winging first started up.

The v1s were released this year with the Plus started shipping in March and Neutra in April. Obviously not finished products if the next version is released 3 months later.

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Jve said..
The v1s were released this year with the Plus started shipping in March and Neutra in April. Obviously not finished products if the next version is released 3 months later.

Spoiler alert:

They did not know in March what would be the best design in July.
Otherwise, they would have produced it in March... Obvious, no?

And this is where lies the difference. A traditional brand would have sat on the advances and wait 9 months to release the v2 the following year.
But by then, Gong would have had the v2, v3, v4, and ... v5 out, each with incremental progress and opportunities to get the feedback of actual average users in addition to the in-house testing, which can never get the full picture.

So, you are a big boy. If you want to wait 9 months, you can. You have the option to choose. the Gong model only adds possibilities to you, they do not take away any.

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colas said..

Jve said..
The v1s were released this year with the Plus started shipping in March and Neutra in April. Obviously not finished products if the next version is released 3 months later.

Spoiler alert:

They did not know in March what would be the best design in July.
Otherwise, they would have produced it in March... Obvious, no?

And this is where lies the difference. A traditional brand would have sat on the advances and wait 9 months to release the v2 the following year.
But by then, Gong would have had the v2, v3, v4, and ... v5 out, each with incremental progress and opportunities to get the feedback of actual average users in addition to the in-house testing, which can never get the full picture.

So, you are a big boy. If you want to wait 9 months, you can. You have the option to choose. the Gong model only adds possibilities to you, they do not take away any.

I'd rather buy from a brand as Ozone that at least has a decently finished product (that came out about the same time as Gongs v1) than a Gong v2 anyways.

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Jve said..

colas said..

Jve said..
The v1s were released this year with the Plus started shipping in March and Neutra in April. Obviously not finished products if the next version is released 3 months later.

Spoiler alert:

They did not know in March what would be the best design in July.
Otherwise, they would have produced it in March... Obvious, no?

And this is where lies the difference. A traditional brand would have sat on the advances and wait 9 months to release the v2 the following year.
But by then, Gong would have had the v2, v3, v4, and ... v5 out, each with incremental progress and opportunities to get the feedback of actual average users in addition to the in-house testing, which can never get the full picture.

So, you are a big boy. If you want to wait 9 months, you can. You have the option to choose. the Gong model only adds possibilities to you, they do not take away any.

I'd rather buy from a brand as Ozone that at least has a decently finished product (that came out about the same time as Gongs v1) than a Gong v2 anyways.

The V1 is a decent product and if you look at the videos that Patrice at Gong says regarding it - he doesn't oversell nor promise magic with it.
Most of the other brands activate their influencers to get reviews that are not very objective and Gong doesn't get as much coverage on those platforms. Doesn't mean it's bad, it just means it flies below the radar more..

In the few videos I have seen of people on the V1 : all seem satisfied.

I put the Gong Neutra V1 through its paces on the beach-and it's absolutely garbage. Even in constant wind, It folds in on itself, and feels like a design half?baked in a corner.
the Ozone blows it out of the water on every front: stability and ease of use. Avoid the Neutra V1 at all costs. This is why they are lunching the V2 asap

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Jve said..

Youngbreezy said..
Is gongs production schedule different to other companies? I haven't been watching all their releases closely but with their pwings they brought out a few models about a year ago and have now brought out the v2 models about a year later. This seems to follow the same schedule as most other companies?
For pwings I think we're going to see a lot of v2's and v'3's quite quickly just like we did when winging first started up.

The v1s were released this year with the Plus started shipping in March and Neutra in April. Obviously not finished products if the next version is released 3 months later.

The v1 Pluses fly just fine.

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colas said..

Jve said..
The v1s were released this year with the Plus started shipping in March and Neutra in April. Obviously not finished products if the next version is released 3 months later.

Spoiler alert:

They did not know in March what would be the best design in July.
Otherwise, they would have produced it in March... Obvious, no?

And this is where lies the difference. A traditional brand would have sat on the advances and wait 9 months to release the v2 the following year.
But by then, Gong would have had the v2, v3, v4, and ... v5 out, each with incremental progress and opportunities to get the feedback of actual average users in addition to the in-house testing, which can never get the full picture.

So, you are a big boy. If you want to wait 9 months, you can. You have the option to choose. the Gong model only adds possibilities to you, they do not take away any.

Not a question of being a big boy. It's a question of ethics and what you want to be as a business. releasing a v1 sail in March and then introducing v2 in August is simply silly. it does not show flexibility in production, it shows complete confusion, lack of direction and very little respect for the final user.

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SlowlyButSurely

Not a question of being a big boy. It's a question of ethics and what you want to be as a business. releasing a v1 sail in March and then introducing v2 in August is simply silly. it does not show flexibility in production, it shows complete confusion, lack of direction and very little respect for the final user.

I think you're talking out of your butt a bit on this one. You've got no idea how much RnD has gone into a product unless you're familiar with the internal workings of that company. Maybe they rushed it or maybe they got excited about the project and put a lot of effort into it who knows? It's a bit rough to crap on a business just because they don't work to the schedule you expect.

Gongs v1 pwings looked pretty crappy to me but so did a lot of other v1 pwings. I've also seen your exact complaint raised about ensis recently. Even the originator BRM released a v1 product that had significant issues. I've also heard this same complaint made about axis foils many many times. I think it's a bit rough to single out gong, it's more just the nature of the industry.

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Youngbreezy said..
I think it's a bit rough to single out gong, it's more just the nature of the industry.

Yes, and also it depends also a lot of the type of product.

When SUPs were into their creative phase (early 2010s) Gong boards could change - subtly - every two months.
The technical level of the average rider was evolving each month. Nobody could anticipate what would be the expectation of the market in 6 months in a dynamic landscape such as the French SUP scene in 2010.

Plus, the evolution of a production line is chasing a compromise as a moving target. Newer models can be better on some points, but worse on others. There is sometimes no "absolute best", but adaptation to a market.

I've own a 3 neutra and a 5 plus from the first commercial batch coming out late march and they are very nice parawingS. I also own a Flow d wing 4.2 and have used the fly surfer POW and Ozone. the gong parawings are great value for money. The plus is a great allround parawing, good for learning because it gets going really quick and is stable while doing so. The top end is fractionally less then the battened wings but not much, so is the upwind angle. The better you get, the better the upwind angle and now I'm almost on par with my normal wings. The 3 neutra gets me (95 kg) going from 20 kts and I used it well over 40 kts. The start gets tricky over 35 kts but downwind is easy. I didn't find the battened parawings, flow, fly surfer, ozone, worth the extra money but if you have it, spend it, because they are more stable in the high end and have a better upwind angle
I also had no problem with the extra weight of the gong they hold up great, as my d wing does, but I mostly do small upwind downwind sessions, where I keep the parawing stowed in my hands. The flow is lighter do, but doesn't pack noticeably smaller. I think the new battened parawings V2 from Gong make the high end and the upwind angle even better, and if I need new wings I would absolutely buy them instead of the more expensive ones, but the the ones I have now are great as they are. I don't mind the quick update schedule because the stuff they sell is good and I have a great time with it.Newer stuff is probably better, but isn't it always.

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colas said..

maxpwr said..
Just be aware that the GONG fabric is much heavier than others. Whether this is an issue depends on what you're looking for in a parawing.

As I said elsewhere, I think we should always provide numbers.For Gong: 54g/m? triple ripstop canopy. Thus you can compare objectively.

E.g. for F-One:

Where did you find info about the material for frigate? Sounds weird that they would have such heavy material

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SlowlyButSurely said..
it still puzzles me how people can buy products from a company who constantly churns out v2, v3, v4...
this fast fashion way of producing and dumping stuff after only few months is so weird, at least for me

You never bought computer hardware, I guess.

Even for a same model of motherboard, card, hard drive, the components vary, you can check the actual version by looking a markings on the PCB.

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trefas said..

Where did you find info about the material for frigate? Sounds weird that they would have such heavy material

Can't find the source now. F-One do not publish their canopy weigth, it was an estimate I found on some forum based by deduction on the rest of the wing.From what I understand, most of the weight gains (e.g total of 1.7kg Frigate 5m2 vs 2.3 kg Gong droid 5m2) on the F-One wings are from the sophisticated way they designed reinforcements. And of course, the total weight is what matters.

You seem to be way off on your estimates of the frigate weight. Early indications from reviewers is that it's very competitive with the best.. 52gsm material would be instantly reportable on packability measures. Anyway this was a quick Google:

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Powis said..
You seem to be way off on your estimates of the frigate weight.

Well... Indeed!

You are right, I was totally wrong on this.

I guess I messed up, doing too many things at once, and not re-checking notes. Valuable lesson, as most mistakes are.

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colas said..

SlowlyButSurely said..
it still puzzles me how people can buy products from a company who constantly churns out v2, v3, v4...
this fast fashion way of producing and dumping stuff after only few months is so weird, at least for me

You never bought computer hardware, I guess.

Even for a same model of motherboard, card, hard drive, the components vary, you can check the actual version by looking a markings on the PCB.

Uh? What's your point?

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SlowlyButSurely said..

You never bought computer hardware, I guess.

Even for a same model of motherboard, card, hard drive, the components vary, you can check the actual version by looking a markings on the PCB.

Uh? What's your point?

In computer hardware, models with the same name constantly evolve. (Motherboards, cards, drives, ...).

And there is no fixed release date in the year.You can even have models having different components, hence needing different drivers although having the exact same name. You have to check the markings on the PCB.

That's the way industries in an innovative cycle work.

I know we're already at the v2s now but if anyone wants to see real world use of the V1 Plus, here is some footage:

v1 is a buckling rodeo when overpowered, but very nice in the middle of its wind range ..

Ep. 3: Parawing: jibing success with the Gong Plus (v1) lowkite

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Youngbreezy said..

?si=QR3ITRwxNKi4PcL8


www.gong-galaxy.com/en/blogs/magazine/gear-nouveaux-lowkites-plus-et-neutra-v2

V2 Lowkites looking really good. Definitely liking the look of the neutra. Prices are really good especially if you take off the 20% VAT.

I am eyeing off a 3m, if my calculations are correct it comes out about $700 aud. Which would put it well under the threshold for paying import duties? Is the threshold $1000 ? They are saying available from August 6th.

Ordered two Nuetra V2 3-4m should arrive next couple of days .They look the goods for the price.

Nice one, let us know how you go with it