What speeds is everyone getting out of their foils?

I can't get past 21.5/21.7knots. On Axis 899 / 980 with a variety of fuses and stabs.

Anyone faster? (Measured)

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r0d said..
What speeds is everyone getting out of their foils?

I can't get past 21.5/21.7knots. On Axis 899 / 980 with a variety of fuses and stabs.

Anyone faster? (Measured)

With Armstrong 725 was able to break 23. Not by much and not often

Good to know there's plenty more speed to be had from myHPS980. I've only got 18kts out of mine so far, but I am still on my L plates . I'm surprised your speeds on 899 aren't markedly faster?

Top race guys are getting over 30 knots. I've hit 26 knots a couple of times on my Cabrinha H650, that was sketchy enough.

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Stretchy said..
Good to know there's plenty more speed to be had from myHPS980. I've only got 18kts out of mine so far, but I am still on my L plates . I'm surprised your speeds on 899 aren't markedly faster?

I am surprised the 899 doesn't seem that much faster. It's cruising speed feels faster even if the top speed does not... So far.

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Relapse said..
Top race guys are getting over 30 knots. I've hit 26 knots a couple of times on my Cabrinha H650, that was sketchy enough.

Thanks relapse. Would be great to know what kit they were on. Seems like Franchi is in a new foil brand and Biniasch on North, or Sab.

The ART foils are like a shrunk pump wing, they are quite thick which limits top speed.
Good glide and pump at their efficient speed though.

You can go faster on the 899. I've had it in the mid 20s knots before moving to other foils. Simply sheet in more or go in more wind, off the wind, better angles, etc. Basically just go faster. No tricks to it. It's just really scary because if you are 100% sheeted in and you have lots of force on your arms then a gust hits and you can get buffeted pretty badly going very fast and eat it. Then you get used to it a bit, but still scary. I take ~600 cm foils to 30 knots but conditions have to be pretty flat. I've raced those two. They do 30 knots in races on ~5x0 kitefoil race foils or mikelabs.

When you are going your max... sheet in more - also trim you footstraps and things so you are balanced at your max speed (when you really need it), not at your slow speed.

I'm interested in going faster too!
Im keen to get into a bit of racing and would like to be competitive
Takuma 1095 21.9 knots
Takuma 750 about the same
Gt 2200 18.5
North Sonar 750 22.9 ( demo)
Art 799 22.5 ( demo)
Any one got any info on the f one Eagle series or sabfoil?
Cheers

Seems like I should be able to go faster than 21.7... Definitely have had some ventilation problems on my Axis 19mm Alu mast ( I think it's ventilation). Sanded and primed / sanded it, maybe that will help...

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r0d said..
Seems like I should be able to go faster than 21.7... Definitely have had some ventilation problems on my Axis 19mm Alu mast ( I think it's ventilation). Sanded and primed / sanded it, maybe that will help...

I read somewhere OK to sand carbon but not ally as it removes the anti-corrosion coating

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zippadeedood said..
I'm interested in going faster too!
Im keen to get into a bit of racing and would like to be competitive
Takuma 1095 21.9 knots
Takuma 750 about the same
Gt 2200 18.5
North Sonar 750 22.9 ( demo)
Art 799 22.5 ( demo)
Any one got any info on the f one Eagle series or sabfoil?
Cheers

Eagle 990 will do 22 knots upwind.
Eagle 790 is known to, and lots of video/ race proof of 30+.
Eagle 690 will easily do ?? More than 30 I should assume. Can report when we actually get one.

Just coached a wing racing clinic on Oahu, light wind (6-12kt) we are doing 20-23kt on a reach. Mid to high aspect foils between 500-1000cm2

Did some tow testing behind the rib. A few of us hit the top speed of the rib around 31-33kt. Short mast made a big difference in control. Having the right tail and baseplate shim was also required.

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r0d said..
Seems like I should be able to go faster than 21.7... Definitely have had some ventilation problems on my Axis 19mm Alu mast ( I think it's ventilation). Sanded and primed / sanded it, maybe that will help...

Not sure you can go much faster on the 19mm mast.
even if you try on a kite you will get ventilation and it's easy to do 30knts with a kite.
Most good hm wing masts are 14mm and kite race masts are 11mm but these are only ok for small foils. if you want to go over 25knts you need hm carbon mast and max of 790cm2 foil and flat water. most if not all wing racers on world tour are using kite race foils 550 when over 15knts and 600/650 under 15

I've managed to squeeze just over 20kts on the art 1099. I found moving the mast back has increased pitch stability at speed. Those ART'S are quick!!
I think my cedrus mast is the handbrake in the equation...thinking of going with the no limitz mast - I've heard good things!

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leepasty said..

r0d said..
Seems like I should be able to go faster than 21.7... Definitely have had some ventilation problems on my Axis 19mm Alu mast ( I think it's ventilation). Sanded and primed / sanded it, maybe that will help...

Not sure you can go much faster on the 19mm mast.
even if you try on a kite you will get ventilation and it's easy to do 30knts with a kite.
Most good hm wing masts are 14mm and kite race masts are 11mm but these are only ok for small foils. if you want to go over 25knts you need hm carbon mast and max of 790cm2 foil and flat water. most if not all wing racers on world tour are using kite race foils 550 when over 15knts and 600/650 under 15

What size hand wings?

HA725, 195 tail, 50 fuse 26 knots+ Somehow always feels much faster.

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Faff said..

leepasty said..

r0d said..
Seems like I should be able to go faster than 21.7... Definitely have had some ventilation problems on my Axis 19mm Alu mast ( I think it's ventilation). Sanded and primed / sanded it, maybe that will help...

Not sure you can go much faster on the 19mm mast.
even if you try on a kite you will get ventilation and it's easy to do 30knts with a kite.
Most good hm wing masts are 14mm and kite race masts are 11mm but these are only ok for small foils. if you want to go over 25knts you need hm carbon mast and max of 790cm2 foil and flat water. most if not all wing racers on world tour are using kite race foils 550 when over 15knts and 600/650 under 15

What size hand wings?

5m and 4m

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leepasty said..

r0d said..
Seems like I should be able to go faster than 21.7... Definitely have had some ventilation problems on my Axis 19mm Alu mast ( I think it's ventilation). Sanded and primed / sanded it, maybe that will help...

Not sure you can go much faster on the 19mm mast.
even if you try on a kite you will get ventilation and it's easy to do 30knts with a kite.
Most good hm wing masts are 14mm and kite race masts are 11mm but these are only ok for small foils. if you want to go over 25knts you need hm carbon mast and max of 790cm2 foil and flat water. most if not all wing racers on world tour are using kite race foils 550 when over 15knts and 600/650 under 15

Thanks, I sorta hope you are wrong so I don't have to go down the $$$$$$s HM mast rabbit hole.

Anyone know what the width of the new Axis HM mast is? I guess less than 19mm.

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r0d said..

leepasty said..

r0d said..
Seems like I should be able to go faster than 21.7... Definitely have had some ventilation problems on my Axis 19mm Alu mast ( I think it's ventilation). Sanded and primed / sanded it, maybe that will help...

Not sure you can go much faster on the 19mm mast.
even if you try on a kite you will get ventilation and it's easy to do 30knts with a kite.
Most good hm wing masts are 14mm and kite race masts are 11mm but these are only ok for small foils. if you want to go over 25knts you need hm carbon mast and max of 790cm2 foil and flat water. most if not all wing racers on world tour are using kite race foils 550 when over 15knts and 600/650 under 15

Thanks, I sorta hope you are wrong so I don't have to go down the $$$$$$s HM mast rabbit hole.

Anyone know what the width of the new Axis HM mast is? I guess less than 19mm.

Axis hm mast s 14.5mm at the bottom. I'm not wrong did a lot of testing back in the early days of kitefoiling. Even worked out could get an extra 1knt if filled all the bolts and joints with car body filler then sanded super smooth with 2000 grit, only made difference over 30knts though. This is why most race foils are now 1 piece gliders

Hey leepasty , How much difference do you think Fuselage thickness makes to speed as some of the fuselages out there are pretty chunky ??

Try a smaller rear wing - it can make a lot of difference to speed.

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FoilAddict said..
Just coached a wing racing clinic on Oahu, light wind (6-12kt) we are doing 20-23kt on a reach. Mid to high aspect foils between 500-1000cm2

Did some tow testing behind the rib. A few of us hit the top speed of the rib around 31-33kt. Short mast made a big difference in control. Having the right tail and baseplate shim was also required.

I saw that video on Insta! I was wondering what happens to a guy wiping out on a foul, @ 30knots...

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Grantmac said..
The ART foils are like a shrunk pump wing, they are quite thick which limits top speed.
Good glide and pump at their efficient speed though.

I'm not sure you got it right regarding the thickness of the ART wings. I'd like to see some comparative specs because the three that I owned seemed quite thin.

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Britfoil360 said..
Hey leepasty , How much difference do you think Fuselage thickness makes to speed as some of the fuselages out there are pretty chunky ??

Yeah fuse makes a difference which is why fanatic have gone Ali on the 60 fuse as allows it to be thinner while still having same stiffness. Fuses that have conical mast connection (I.e axis)need to be wide to have strength in that joint

I was using 19mm Project Cedrus mast (90cm) with the SAB W1000/647/400 and got some decent speeds. 10sec in the 23kn range. W940 was surprisingly not that much slower.

Also the Fanatic 90cm Carbon mast (non-TE) with the Aero Free 1000/68/216 getting similar speeds although this setup "feels" slower. Not sure how thick the Fanatic mast is, but it's not super lean AFAIK.

I'm fastest when I'm dialed (which for me is easier b/c I don't use footstraps). Also knowing your mast won't ventilate is a big part of it for me. The Moses M82 mast I had a lot of problems. SAB Kraken 93 no problems, nor w/ PC 90 and Fanatic 90.

I find different locations can make a big difference. One of my fastest runs was on a downwinder in La Ventana where I was trying to catch up to somebody and I think the wind and current were going in the same direction reducing the apparent flow on the foil? I've also noticed this at my home spot, where the tide/current swings can be quite large.... definitely faster over ground on a flood tide.

Getting some smaller foils to see if I can break 25 knots (Aero Free 800). It was a bit of a letdown to start using GPS (GoPro and Apple Watch) and see that I could never crack 25 knots even peak 2 sec, although I usually rig pretty small 3.5 wing but we have good wind here.

Also need to spend some more time to dial in the SAB W800

Have some of the new Fanatic Aero Glides on order as well in the 725 and 905.

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leepasty said..

Britfoil360 said..
Hey leepasty , How much difference do you think Fuselage thickness makes to speed as some of the fuselages out there are pretty chunky ??

Yeah fuse makes a difference which is why fanatic have gone Ali on the 60 fuse as allows it to be thinner while still having same stiffness. Fuses that have conical mast connection (I.e axis)need to be wide to have strength in that joint

Thanks for the reply buddy

At speed, how do you think drag distributes above water (body, board, etc...) vs below water (submerged foil)?

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Velocicraptor said..
At speed, how do you think drag distributes above water (body, board, etc...) vs below water (submerged foil)?

We are not going fast enough to worry too much about drag in air and it's very minimal gains. In track cycling for instance they are trying to gain 1/10th of a second. where as drag in water is massive, think how much a piece of weed on foil slows you down, yet if you held that same piece of weed in your hand fully face on to the wind while going flat out it would hardly make any difference

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leepasty said..

Velocicraptor said..
At speed, how do you think drag distributes above water (body, board, etc...) vs below water (submerged foil)?

We are not going fast enough to worry too much about drag in air and it's very minimal gains. In track cycling for instance they are trying to gain 1/10th of a second. where as drag in water is massive, think how much a piece of weed on foil slows you down, yet if you held that same piece of weed in your hand fully face on to the wind while going flat out it would hardly make any difference

I raced bikes for many years, including some wind tunnel testing, and could quantify where my watts were going (wind resistance, rolling resistance, drivetrain loss, etc...), hence my interest. That said, fluid dynamics are very different topic, and I recognize my knowledge is only partly applicable.

weed on the foil vs weed above water isn't really an appropriate comparison because there is so much more surface area above water than below. Of course water is more dense than air (784 times) and will result in higher drag -- which is what you are comparing with the weed -- but below water frontal area (and parasitic drag) is so small compared to the frontal area above the water line. is frontal area above the waterline 784 times greater than below (major oversimplification)?

Just curious...

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Velocicraptor said..

leepasty said..

Velocicraptor said..
At speed, how do you think drag distributes above water (body, board, etc...) vs below water (submerged foil)?

We are not going fast enough to worry too much about drag in air and it's very minimal gains. In track cycling for instance they are trying to gain 1/10th of a second. where as drag in water is massive, think how much a piece of weed on foil slows you down, yet if you held that same piece of weed in your hand fully face on to the wind while going flat out it would hardly make any difference

I raced bikes for many years, including some wind tunnel testing, and could quantify where my watts were going (wind resistance, rolling resistance, drivetrain loss, etc...), hence my interest. That said, fluid dynamics are very different topic, and I recognize my knowledge is only partly applicable.

weed on the foil vs weed above water isn't really an appropriate comparison because there is so much more surface area above water than below. Of course water is more dense than air (784 times) and will result in higher drag -- which is what you are comparing with the weed -- but below water frontal area (and parasitic drag) is so small compared to the frontal area above the water line. is frontal area above the waterline 784 times greater than below (major oversimplification)?

Just curious...

I don't know but if the guys trying to break speed records windsurfing and kiting aren't bothering with special suits/helmets etc when they are over 50knts then I don't think we need to worry when doing 25 the biggest drag apart from body is the fat leading edge of wing. Fixed wing would have less drag and I expect will see them in some speed events soon. The ice wingers go crazy fast using fixed wings but no where near as fast as the ice yachts which are over 100mph