did a short speed session today on the Swan River in Perth and managed to break 30kn, all data is below and the ka72 link
FOIL: mikeslab Bullet 7, 96cm mastBoard: PPC Soar Pro 93L
Rider: 90kgWind: 16-22kn, flat waterWing: Ozone Flux v1 5mGPS: Navilink.GT31 & Garmin Fenix 6x Sapphire
recorded 2s top speed: 30.11kn / 55.76km/h
This was only my second session on the B7, I've tried to break 30 many times with my axis 699 and I've only gotten 28, these kite foils are just in another league and I don't feel like they have any top end. with more wind and probably a smaller wing I could go way faster, my session was very short as the sun had set and the wind felt like it was dropping, Happy to answer any question about the setup :))It is interesting that the Garmin recorded very similar speeds with the GPSTC V4 data fieldwww.ka72.com/Track/t/515790 KA upload is with Navilink not Garmin watch, i had both with me :)

picture below from the first session with the foil, 14-16kn of wind and i got 27kn top speed surprisingly :o

setup from today at majestic point


wind speed from the local reader at the time of the runs, it is roughly 1km downwind of where I went so wind at the spot is slightly less, I wish I had gone earlier

Interesting also that you're using the ozone flux, seems to be a real fast wing.

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usa22 said..
Interesting also that you're using the ozone flux, seems to be a real fast wing.

And at those speeds the wing may actually make a slight difference. The biggest factor is the foil (and the rider). Any idea what the specs are on the B7? Also, what tail were you using with the 699?

Awesome, thanks for posting. Great pics and track too.

Hope you don't mind me asking, how long is the bullet 7 fuse? Is it shorter than a 'normal' wind set up (65-70cm)? If so does this make it less pitch stable?

What's the app on the Garmin?

smokin!! nice!

well done.

Well done Oliver. You are poetry in motion on the water to watch. Be interesting to see how fast you can go in decent wind.

Had 2 sessions on the Flux 5m now in 15 knots wind and it has a real power spot just off the wind. Better than my old Dlab v1 5m.

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Gorgo said..
What's the app on the Garmin?

there's a pdf linked on the data field page that helps with setting it up, its made for windsurfing speed runs so has a lot of information

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r0d said..
Awesome, thanks for posting. Great pics and track too.

Hope you don't mind me asking, how long is the bullet 7 fuse? Is it shorter than a 'normal' wind set up (65-70cm)? If so does this make it less pitch stable?

the full length from the leading edge of the front foil to the trailing edge of the stab is 62cm, It is hard to measure as the Mikeslab foils are one piece with no connections, 46CM if you just measure between the foilsTOP FOIL IS BULLET 3BOTTOM FOIL BULLET 7

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Thatspec said..

usa22 said..
Interesting also that you're using the ozone flux, seems to be a real fast wing.

And at those speeds the wing may actually make a slight difference. The biggest factor is the foil (and the rider). Any idea what the specs are on the B7? Also, what tail were you using with the 699?

I have tried many different setups, i started with the 400 Speed flat stab that feels great and sometimes with a -.5 degree negative shim, now i just use the skinny 360/45. maybe i need better conditions,


Also the B7 is 550 cm^2 I thinkspan 740mmchord 105here's my axis setup with 899 that i ride the most, short fuse

Great speeds Oli!! Great foil too!??

Great effort Oliverp! I've been chasing speed for a bit but came to the conclusion that consumer grade all round kit just isn't up to much over 25-26 knots. Guess that's why all the top sponsored racers run MLabs or Chubanga instead of the brands consumer offerings_

I tried a Mike's Labs 700 the other day and it's night and day drag wise, hoping to try Chubanga V3 soon, will be hard not to launch into jumps with all that speed though.

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Relapse said..
Great effort Oliverp! I've been chasing speed for a bit but came to the conclusion that consumer grade all round kit just isn't up to much over 25-26 knots. Guess that's why all the top sponsored racers run MLabs or Chubanga instead of the brands consumer offerings_

I tried a Mike's Labs 700 the other day and it's night and day drag wise, hoping to try Chubanga V3 soon, will be hard not to launch into jumps with all that speed though.

i am not too keen on jumping myself, Chubanga also make an interchangeable wing foil setup i think a few of the racers use it and change the size of their front foil, the V3 is still the best though

Thanks for the pics. Interesting thing I notice about all the ML setups I've seen, the stabilizers appear to be huge compared to most other setups (like your 899) yet clearly they are relatively quick. I measured a ML 600 the other day and the front foil was fully 2mm thicker than a Lift 110X which is roughly the same size. I see no magic going on there at ML, skill is the biggest factor and you could likely push any brands fast setup over 30 knots.

Here in the Gorge we see way too many people riding these ML race foils (with little skill) when they would be advancing their skills so much more quickly on more forgiving foils. Generally it's the folks driving the $150K sprinter van with California plates

Mr Bennetts had this to say recently;
forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/50?u=bonifacio

I've got up to 23kn on my code 850s and not really pushing it that much (didn't have a helmet) but I've the 720 and will wear a helmet and see if I can crack 30kn next good wind. I've done 30kn kite foiling on the sabfoil w800/399 combo.

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Thatspec said..
Thanks for the pics. Interesting thing I notice about all the ML setups I've seen, the stabilizers appear to be huge compared to most other setups (like your 899) yet clearly they are relatively quick. I measured a ML 600 the other day and the front foil was fully 2mm thicker than a Lift 110X which is roughly the same size. I see no magic going on there at ML, skill is the biggest factor and you could likely push any brands fast setup over 30 knots.

Here in the Gorge we see way too many people riding these ML race foils (with little skill) when they would be advancing their skills so much more quickly on more forgiving foils. Generally it's the folks driving the $150K sprinter van with California plates

Mr Bennetts had this to say recently;
forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/50?u=bonifacio

From what i have seen no wing brand has made any equipment only designed for high speed racing only kite foils which are in their own category. Having a thin profile on the foil or mast doesn't necessarily correspond with higher speeds, the actual foil section and the connections in the setup make a bigger impact to the top end speed and confidence to push it, once you see and feel how stiff these kite foil masts are you will be shocked, I have felt even the slightest air bubbles or ribbon weed on my foil that i haven't felt with any other brands gear.
Mr Bennetts is a weapon at surf foiling arguably one of the best in the world, but idk how you can make a comparison to speed wingfoiling they are two completely different things. From the little i've tried of ML foils i can actually say they are relatively easy to use, i have tried to go fast on F-one eagle foils, Axis 699, Armstrong 525 and none have come even close to the speeds i got on the ML in only my second ever session in sub par conditions, there foils are just made for a different purpose. On a final note I actually don't own the ML foil i was just borrowing it from a mate :) and i still love my 899 and the cost to foils and availability axis that my whole family rides.

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noepoxy said..
I've got up to 23kn on my code 850s and not really pushing it that much (didn't have a helmet) but I've the 720 and will wear a helmet and see if I can crack 30kn next good wind. I've done 30kn kite foiling on the sabfoil w800/399 combo.

I have tried on the river in Perth some of the code foils as i see Dan the designer winging on the river often, it has a similar feeling in my experience to F-one foils, they feel and sound fast but i couldn't get them to really high speeds, i also got around 23kn, from speaking to Marcus their foils are not made for wing racing, mainly surf and sup, which may i add they do insanely well, the pumping efficiency of the 850s is insane!. There are some top racers in Europe on the Red Devil sab foils and beating people on kite foils and breaking 30 maybe if you could get your hands on that you would go even faster, however from what I understand it's not compatible;e with any of the other sab lineups and you would need a new setup idk?

I'm not really into speed that much, more waves and boosting high kite foiling, but the 850 is such a good foil, I'm 98kg and it punches way above its weight, best foil I have used winging hands down.

I was out today in 12-17kn winging and once on foil so efficient, I hit 20kn on my garmin easily, I honestly never envisaged using a 850cm2 foil in such light conditions, it is truely an impressive foil.

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From what i have seen no wing brand has made any equipment only designed for high speed racing only kite foils which are in their own category. Having a thin profile on the foil or mast doesn't necessarily correspond with higher speeds, the actual foil section and the connections in the setup make a bigger impact to the top end speed and confidence to push it, once you see and feel how stiff these kite foil masts are you will be shocked, I have felt even the slightest air bubbles or ribbon weed on my foil that i haven't felt with any other brands gear.
Mr Bennetts is a weapon at surf foiling arguably one of the best in the world, but idk how you can make a comparison to speed wingfoiling they are two completely different things. From the little i've tried of ML foils i can actually say they are relatively easy to use, i have tried to go fast on F-one eagle foils, Axis 699, Armstrong 525 and none have come even close to the speeds i got on the ML in only my second ever session in sub par conditions, there foils are just made for a different purpose. On a final note I actually don't own the ML foil i was just borrowing it from a mate :) and i still love my 899 and the cost to foils and availability axis that my whole family rides.

Maybe F4 has some competitive kit and certainly SAB does as mentioned above. Adam may not like the ML for surf foiling (or just likes other kit better), but I've seen plenty of tips out from ML foils with no issues and he does say there's nothing better in a straight line.
Heineken also rides around on a 96cm mast all the time with his ML setups and carves pretty hard. He's an amazing talent but imagine what he could do on a shorter mast and surfier foil. Each to his own I guess, have to commend the guy for sticking with his sponsors for so long. If I could afford to have a separate dedicated foil for speed I'd do it but my 110X has hit 27 so far (29mph), fast enough for me and still turns great.

Keep us posted

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oliverp said..

noepoxy said..
I've got up to 23kn on my code 850s and not really pushing it that much (didn't have a helmet) but I've the 720 and will wear a helmet and see if I can crack 30kn next good wind. I've done 30kn kite foiling on the sabfoil w800/399 combo.

I have tried on the river in Perth some of the code foils as i see Dan the designer winging on the river often, it has a similar feeling in my experience to F-one foils, they feel and sound fast but i couldn't get them to really high speeds, i also got around 23kn, from speaking to Marcus their foils are not made for wing racing, mainly surf and sup, which may i add they do insanely well, the pumping efficiency of the 850s is insane!. There are some top racers in Europe on the Red Devil sab foils and beating people on kite foils and breaking 30 maybe if you could get your hands on that you would go even faster, however from what I understand it's not compatible;e with any of the other sab lineups and you would need a new setup idk?

790 Eagle will very easily do 30 knots, here is OTB marine and their team riders first use ?si=zzb_wfZ9t-W3djN3

But these are not dedicated speed foils, they offer much more versatile riding than blasting along. You can actually turn these.
Older kite foils are being caught with new designs, the Red Devils have terrible stall speeds for their size and really ruin sessions when you could be in an equivalent size foil from another brand and riding along.

The newish starboard race foils are fast - www.instagram.com/p/Cxr7iRjS-ni/?igshid=MWZjMTM2ODFkZg== 34 knots is faster than any Chubunga team rider I've seen.
There are few brands I would be riding to chase speed, but as touched on. Most brands are not flat out speed machines as people like to turn.

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King Crash said..

oliverp said..

noepoxy said..
I've got up to 23kn on my code 850s and not really pushing it that much (didn't have a helmet) but I've the 720 and will wear a helmet and see if I can crack 30kn next good wind. I've done 30kn kite foiling on the sabfoil w800/399 combo.

I have tried on the river in Perth some of the code foils as i see Dan the designer winging on the river often, it has a similar feeling in my experience to F-one foils, they feel and sound fast but i couldn't get them to really high speeds, i also got around 23kn, from speaking to Marcus their foils are not made for wing racing, mainly surf and sup, which may i add they do insanely well, the pumping efficiency of the 850s is insane!. There are some top racers in Europe on the Red Devil sab foils and beating people on kite foils and breaking 30 maybe if you could get your hands on that you would go even faster, however from what I understand it's not compatible;e with any of the other sab lineups and you would need a new setup idk?

790 Eagle will very easily do 30 knots, here is OTB marine and their team riders first use

?si=zzb_wfZ9t-W3djN3

But these are not dedicated speed foils, they offer much more versatile riding than blasting along. You can actually turn these.
Older kite foils are being caught with new designs, the Red Devils have terrible stall speeds for their size and really ruin sessions when you could be in an equivalent size foil from another brand and riding along.

The newish starboard race foils are fast - www.instagram.com/p/Cxr7iRjS-ni/?igshid=MWZjMTM2ODFkZg== 34 knots is faster than any Chubunga team rider I've seen.
There are few brands I would be riding to chase speed, but as touched on. Most brands are not flat out speed machines as people like to turn.

until you know what device was used to record these speeds I wouldn't take them as legit speeds, as I stated in my post I used a registered device used for speed windsurfing, devices such as smartwatches and Garmin watches are great however their accuracy is unstable and inconsistent no matter how much marketing they push about their GPS systems :). I still use my Garmin for live readings and an estimate

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oliverp said..

King Crash said..

oliverp said..

noepoxy said..
I've got up to 23kn on my code 850s and not really pushing it that much (didn't have a helmet) but I've the 720 and will wear a helmet and see if I can crack 30kn next good wind. I've done 30kn kite foiling on the sabfoil w800/399 combo.

I have tried on the river in Perth some of the code foils as i see Dan the designer winging on the river often, it has a similar feeling in my experience to F-one foils, they feel and sound fast but i couldn't get them to really high speeds, i also got around 23kn, from speaking to Marcus their foils are not made for wing racing, mainly surf and sup, which may i add they do insanely well, the pumping efficiency of the 850s is insane!. There are some top racers in Europe on the Red Devil sab foils and beating people on kite foils and breaking 30 maybe if you could get your hands on that you would go even faster, however from what I understand it's not compatible;e with any of the other sab lineups and you would need a new setup idk?

790 Eagle will very easily do 30 knots, here is OTB marine and their team riders first use

?si=zzb_wfZ9t-W3djN3

But these are not dedicated speed foils, they offer much more versatile riding than blasting along. You can actually turn these.
Older kite foils are being caught with new designs, the Red Devils have terrible stall speeds for their size and really ruin sessions when you could be in an equivalent size foil from another brand and riding along.

The newish starboard race foils are fast - www.instagram.com/p/Cxr7iRjS-ni/?igshid=MWZjMTM2ODFkZg== 34 knots is faster than any Chubunga team rider I've seen.
There are few brands I would be riding to chase speed, but as touched on. Most brands are not flat out speed machines as people like to turn.

until you know what device was used to record these speeds I wouldn't take them as legit speeds, as I stated in my post I used a registered device used for speed windsurfing, devices such as smartwatches and Garmin watches are great however their accuracy is unstable and inconsistent no matter how much marketing they push about their GPS systems :). I still use my Garmin for live readings and an estimate

Agree. There are very few riders who can go 30kt and they generally are on pretty specialized gear. I would even push that statement down to ~27kt. But who knows maybe there are some extremely fast people on everyday foils. There are certainly lots of slow people on fast foils.

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oliverp said..

King Crash said..

oliverp said..

noepoxy said..
I've got up to 23kn on my code 850s and not really pushing it that much (didn't have a helmet) but I've the 720 and will wear a helmet and see if I can crack 30kn next good wind. I've done 30kn kite foiling on the sabfoil w800/399 combo.

I have tried on the river in Perth some of the code foils as i see Dan the designer winging on the river often, it has a similar feeling in my experience to F-one foils, they feel and sound fast but i couldn't get them to really high speeds, i also got around 23kn, from speaking to Marcus their foils are not made for wing racing, mainly surf and sup, which may i add they do insanely well, the pumping efficiency of the 850s is insane!. There are some top racers in Europe on the Red Devil sab foils and beating people on kite foils and breaking 30 maybe if you could get your hands on that you would go even faster, however from what I understand it's not compatible;e with any of the other sab lineups and you would need a new setup idk?

790 Eagle will very easily do 30 knots, here is OTB marine and their team riders first use

?si=zzb_wfZ9t-W3djN3

But these are not dedicated speed foils, they offer much more versatile riding than blasting along. You can actually turn these.
Older kite foils are being caught with new designs, the Red Devils have terrible stall speeds for their size and really ruin sessions when you could be in an equivalent size foil from another brand and riding along.

The newish starboard race foils are fast - www.instagram.com/p/Cxr7iRjS-ni/?igshid=MWZjMTM2ODFkZg== 34 knots is faster than any Chubunga team rider I've seen.
There are few brands I would be riding to chase speed, but as touched on. Most brands are not flat out speed machines as people like to turn.

until you know what device was used to record these speeds I wouldn't take them as legit speeds, as I stated in my post I used a registered device used for speed windsurfing, devices such as smartwatches and Garmin watches are great however their accuracy is unstable and inconsistent no matter how much marketing they push about their GPS systems :). I still use my Garmin for live readings and an estimate

Agree. There are very few riders who can go 30kt and they generally are on pretty specialized gear. I would even push that statement down to ~27kt. But who knows maybe there are some extremely fast people on everyday foils. There are certainly lots of slow people on fast foils.

I use an Apple Watch but pretty much pay attention to the 5 x 10sec average to gauge overall speed for a foil/session.

I did 23.4 knots today on the Gold Coast, 13-18 knots of wind, and not pushing it to the limits, using a garmin fenix and not my fastest foil.

Let's arrange an offical speed run session in SE QLD and I'll enter to see if I can officially crack 30 knots.

We could even take the foil brand out of the equation, for example...

Let's say the top X riders who make it to the quarter or semi finals, we take these brands and then all remaining riders have to do a speed run on all qualified brands and take the best average to progress to the next round, this would make it rider specific.

We could mandate other baseline requirements for entry as min/max mast and stabliser length etc so it's more rider ability IMO.

Welldone Oliver your da man dude
I need to lift my game my 28kts on my 1000 GoFoil is just not up to par
I'm sure you will improve on your 30 this summer mate

Sure a dedicated speed tracking GPS will give you overall more accurate instantaneous speeds. With the smart watches and right app though, using 100 and 500 yard averages it's pretty easy to tell if an instantaneous top speed was accurate. For instance if you are showing 100 yard averages of say 24.5 and the top speed within that run was 25.8 I would certainly believe it. They get you close enough for recreational speed. Any questionable speed that also corresponds with an obvious crash one can safely discard

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noepoxy said..
I did 23.4 knots today on the Gold Coast, 13-18 knots of wind, and not pushing it to the limits, using a garmin fenix and not my fastest foil.

Let's arrange an offical speed run session in SE QLD and I'll enter to see if I can officially crack 30 knots.

We could even take the foil brand out of the equation, for example...

Let's say the top X riders who make it to the quarter or semi finals, we take these brands and then all remaining riders have to do a speed run on all qualified brands and take the best average to progress to the next round, this would make it rider specific.

We could mandate other baseline requirements for entry as min/max mast and stabliser length etc so it's more rider ability IMO.

Bayside sailboard club at manly, QLD is starting up their GPS competition soon and will have a wing division. Won't be too technical as want to build numbers.

we are also running our first slalom races of the season tomorrow at kite beach, manly. Six downwind races. Briefing 1 pm for 2 pm start.

when i want to go faster, I just change the units from knots to mph

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sunsetsailboards said..
when i want to go faster, I just change the units from knots to mph

Kph even better