I thought I would chronicle my first four wing session to possibly help other newbies and maybe entertain others.

Me: 68-years-old in Ohio with 41 years of windsurfing experience--including Gorge, Great Lakes, HI, (good jiber), two full seasons windfoiling (just getting jibes now), 6'-1"/185cm, 180 lbs/82 kg, quite fit "for my age," mediocre balance. Typical gear RRD 122 L fin board and 7.0 sail; SS Wizard 125, i76, 5.3m sail.

Wing gear: 2022 Fanatic Sky Wing 5'-8" 125L, 2022 6.5m Duotone Slick, SS foil with 71cm mast, long fuse, 42 stab, and i84 in B.

First session in 10-17 mph, mostly flat water: whoa, this is hard! Hard even to balance board on knees. This board is really corky. Used "old man uphaul" method of getting to feet using leading edge of wing as crutch, then uphaul wing. In two hours had 30 seconds of flight time. Hard to keep wing tip out of water. Beat.

Second and third sessions: same 6.5m wing but used my Wizard with i76 in B. What a difference--success! Still used old man uphaul method but had some nice flights. Third session even more flights, several hundred yards long until wind died. Pumped a little bit and felt the joy of the ride. Front foot in strap (no rear straps). Front straps are a bit too outboard so rear foot is on far side of board. Works OK.

Fourth session: Back to Fanatic board--ugh. Some gusts to 20+ mph and chop. Gusty winds made lulls and gusts hard. No way to do old man uphaul. Resorted to stink bug and made it work three times. Only one 5-second ride.

Impressions. 125L wing board is NOT the same as 125L windfoiling board! And I was getting some advice to buy a 105L wing board. Bigger is better. 6.5m wing is hard to handle at this stage. Hard to keep tips out of water unless I am flying. Wish I had a 4m wing and high winds. Did fairly well staying upwind, especially when flying Wizard. Good advice received was to sheet out when slogging to stay upwind. I stayed up late to watch stink bug videos. I plan to commit to it and hope old knees can keep my CG low while kneeling.

Appreciate all comments, tips, and jokes.

Based on your sail sized you should have gone with a 5m wing.
Also the slingshot foils are not optimal for foiling, far too draggy.

Well done, sounds like you are using a board and wing that are oversize, what front foil size are you using, if you get fed up it's quite easy to practice on the windsurf board, though you will have a hard time going upwind. It'll be hard on the knees and feet for a few sessions but the stinkbug is the way to go

Thanks. Using a SS i84 (2066cm2) front foil wing on the Fanatic wing board. SS i76 (1534cm2) on Wizard.

Yes, 6.5 wing seems too big.
Sail size vs wing size......
If I'm using a 5.3m sail on my windfoil board and use a similar foil on the wing board, would I use a wing close to a 5.3 or is it not comparable?

I learned on the Wizard windfoil board as well. After my 3rd session I was so hooked I sold all my windfoiling equipment including the Wizard and got the 105ltr Quattro Wing Drifter (I'm 95kg).

I fell in love with the 105ltr and was glad I didn't go bigger. It does feel corky and strange at first but you're windsurfing background will very much pay dividends with your learning curve. You have to learn to stay low on the board when getting up.

It's been a year and I've moved on to the 90ltr Starboard Takeoff, again, felt corky at first but I got it dialed in after the first hour or so.

As much as I loved windfoiling, winging is just better for feeling the foil and swell and the jibes are sooooo much easier than windfoiling.

Keep at it and have fun, lot's of great YouTube vids out their to help you along. Nothing beats getting a lesson from a pro, definitely worth the money!

DC

Welcome to the addiction! Stay humble and be patient. This is a hard sport. I know world class kiters and windsurfers who struggle like the rest of us. There is some sort of unconscious learning that your brain needs to do in order to lock in all the minor adjustments to fly on foil. Time on the water and time on foil is necessary for your brain to make those new neuro-pathways.

marc5 something that helped me quite a bit at the early stages was just schlogging along on the board, keeping my balance focusing on orienting the wing and moving my hands between handles, then when I was happy with that, schlogging along and gently pumping the board for a few pumps, then when you have a flat board and a decent gust it just works, as Goofcat says, session by session, all the different inputs begin to fit together between brain and body, a smooth continuous wind and not a gusty difficult wind makes the first few sessions a lot easier, also the smaller wings are lighter, depends on brand, 5,5 may be hard to get up on foil in light wind at first but might be easier and let you focus more on the board and footwork (many people find too in the early stages it's easier to have the foil at the rear of the foil box)

For older knees and until you get them stronger, try this technique.. It's much easier compared to getting up from both knees down.

@bhc, I use that method with my old knees, but my board is a +25L so I don't need as much support from the wing...

I have the 2022 Fanatic Sky Wing 5'-8" 125L as well. I agree that it is very corky. Maybe I should have gone with a longer 125L board or a board with less volume. But this boards slips out from under me all the time.

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JakeDawg69 said..
I have the 2022 Fanatic Sky Wing 5'-8" 125L as well. I agree that it is very corky. Maybe I should have gone with a longer 125L board or a board with less volume. But this boards slips out from under me all the time.

My experience is different. I bought 2022 Fanatic Sky Wing 5'8" for ultra light wind days. It works great for me. Very stable, easy to get up and slog even if wind dies. My regular board is 2022 Fanatic Sky Wing 5'4".
I'm 5'10", 190 lbs, 62 y/o.

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marc5 said..
Thanks. Using a SS i84 (2066cm2) front foil wing on the Fanatic wing board. SS i76 (1534cm2) on Wizard.

Yes, 6.5 wing seems too big.
Sail size vs wing size......
If I'm using a 5.3m sail on my windfoil board and use a similar foil on the wing board, would I use a wing close to a 5.3 or is it not comparable?

The wing will feel slightly more powerful on a meter to meter basis, depending on manufacturer.

Then main difference it the length of the board. It's so much easier to learn on a 6'6 vs a 5'8!!!!!! We did some test of a 115L at 7' vs a 140L at 5'5 and the difference was drastic!!!! It was so much easier on the 7' for everyone even if it was a lot less volume. Good luck

Hi Marc5.
I'm 70kg and 175cm with 3+ decades of windsurfing and 4 years windfoiling behind me. Foiling got in my blood as our local conditions have lots of days of 10-15 knots and I can't be bothered getting big slalom gear up and going.
When I first jumped on the wingfoil train I had a 125L board and found it was OK. Now have a 118 Litre Konrad which is narrower and shorter than the naish and it works perfect for me after a year in the sport. Pumps up a little earlier than the naish due to less wetted area. Plenty of float to get me home when the wind dies. Have ridden a 95 litre board and it didn't feel significantly higher performance for me. I think you'll do fine with the 122. Spend some months getting used to it before you upgrade. And I think you've chosen a board that will assist you in spending more time on rather than in the water - that's always good when learning.
There are clearly others out there with far more talent than me who want smaller boards to begin with.
The front foil you have is big, but it all depends on what you want to do. I reckon it will get you going in light winds really well, esp with that big wing. But if you want to do stuff in a wider range of windspeeds and sea conditions, the SS 84 might hold you back a bit. I've ridden the 84 and it's good. There's a lot of other stuff out there that is better.
I've also tried a few different wings. I've found the Slick 5m is perfect for me as anything wider will drag the wingtips when I try to pump up. Reckon the Units feel the best of the wings I've tried but a 5m unit is slightly wider than the slick, so I'm sticking with the Slick at present.

9th session yesterday.......I felt the magic!

Big breakthrough with winds in mid-teens with some gusts to low 20s (mph). Previous couple of sessions I've done some sniper startups, as well as the Paulino one-knee start above. No more old man uphauls--too hard in chop. Yesterday I mostly did the Paulino start, especially as I tired. I was getting flights of a mile, the length of my lake. It was amazing. And I began to pump the wing and board to initiate flight. It really helps to pump the front of the board very aggressively, like you're trying to make waves. I was even able to get up on foil a couple of times before my friend got up on his windfoil setup.

I felt how easy it was to handle gusts, and the large 6.5 wing is no longer feeling so clumsy. It's fun to hold the weightless wing over your head and just keep flying forward. Of course I'm still geeking out occasionally with a wing tip in the water or just a silly crash. I couldn't help but hum the theme song from the TV show "Batman" as I flew around the lake. I even got close to flying through several jibes. Just need to work on my footwork. I think it will be easier to learn that a windfoil jibe. After a couple of hours I felt like a harness might be nice, but at my stage I'm still slithering on my belly up on the board and I think the hook would do a number on the board.

So I'm feeling the magic now and feeling better about my gear, but I went through plenty of frustration. A longer wider board (like my SS Wizard 125) is what I would recommend for most people starting out, along with maybe a smaller wing.

Now I see what all the hubbub is about. I'm really looking forward to building my skills--more fun!

What lake are you winging at? I haven't lived in Ohio since 1983-1987 (just east of Columbus). I recall summer winds being pretty horrible (light!) except for storms passing through...I'd imagine those would be really challenging conditions for wing foiling.

marc - sounds like you're really enjoying the sessions I like to hum the Starsky and Hutch theme when I am winging, lol. Maybe I missed something but you said you windfoil and wingfoil. The 2 foil systems are not really that compatible, the wingfoil fuse is usually much shorter and the front foil connection much closer to the mast, I'm not familiar with your make of foil, but it's almost a given that you have the double US box in your wingfoil board to necessitate adjustability, but like I said I can't visualise your foil setup

Dspace, I'm on CJ Brown reservoir in Buck Creek State Park, Springfield OH. About 45 minutes west of Columbus. A nice lake with a high dam and surprisingly good wind for the Midwest outside of the Great Lakes. Of course summer is light wind season, but we can get some good fronts then. Spring and fall are best. Several years ago before I started foiling I got 40 sessions in one year on a 122L fin board and no sails larger than a 7.0. I could get a lot more now with a foil, wing or wind.

Sultan, I'll try Starsky and Hutch. Thanks for the reminder about the difference in fuses. My shop suggested I start winging with my longer 78cm windfoil fuse, then move to the shorter 61cm one. I have stayed on the longer fuse so far but maybe it is time to drop down to the shorter wing fuse. I've also been using a 42 stabilizer with my i84 front wing (2066 cm2, 3.3 aspect). I have a 48cm stab which is recommended for bigger front winds. Maybe I'll try that too. Your thoughts? Thanks.

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marc5 said..
Dspace, I'm on CJ Brown reservoir in Buck Creek State Park, Springfield OH. About 45 minutes west of Columbus. A nice lake with a high dam and surprisingly good wind for the Midwest outside of the Great Lakes. Of course summer is light wind season, but we can get some good fronts then. Spring and fall are best. Several years ago before I started foiling I got 40 sessions in one year on a 122L fin board and no sails larger than a 7.0. I could get a lot more now with a foil, wing or wind.

Cool. Don't think I ever rode there. We windsurfed Alum Creek Lake and Hoover Lake around Columbus, and of course Lake Erie. I guess foiling really does open up a much longer season and many more rideable sessions/locations compared to those old windsurfing days. I bailed out of windsurfing the first time I saw Flash Austin pulling off all these cool kiteboarding moves sometime around 1999-2000

Hi Marc5

There were no dedicated wing boards when I first learned to wing (Summer 2019) so I used a 7.6 Slingshot outwit that was for SUP foiling and you are correct that the longer rocker line helps the bigger/taller guys! Starting with a bigger board has a much steeper learning curve than wobbling around on a -6ft.

At 200lbs/90kg I first used the 71cm mast with the i99 front wing because I learned on a very gusty lake at the time and soon progressed down to the i84 front wing and choose the 90cm mast (a lot less foil outs). over the couple of seasons, I switched to smaller and smaller boards but kept using the i84/90cm mast as nothing I saw from other foils was really that much better. Sure, the hover glide is heavy and a bit clunky, but the wing shape was ahead of its time.

I started using the Slingshot Phantasm last year and if you like the infinity foil wing shapes you can get them (more refined in phantasm range) or try the HA front wings, the phantasm mast is super stiff and makes a huge difference, a lot of wingers get caught up in the front wing choice and do not understand how important the mast stiffness is.

Enjoy the wing time it is a lot of fun.

Now 20+ days into winging, the last 8 in the Gorge. Wooo-hooo, had to buy a 4.5 Slick to handle the days over 20 mph average (gusts to 30). Still, due to my inexperience and inefficient pumping, I needed my 6.5 Slick on days in the high teens when others were using 5.0s.

I moved down to a Slingshot i76 in B/91cm mast/61cm fuse/42cm stab. It's so much faster and more maneuverable, BUT even with moving the foil back in the tracks I feel like I have way too much front foot--like it's glued to the deck near the front of the pad on my Fanatic Sky Wing 5'-8" 125L board. Nearly all my weight is on the front foot. Is this inexperience or should I move the foil back so it is at the back of the tracks? The foil is about 1.5" from the back now. Would other foils (maybe HA) be less front-foot dominant?

And after dozens of jibe attempts I finally made one and even switched my feet after making the turn! What a great feeling not to swim for a change. What helped me was actively pumping the board through the turn with the wing parked over my head. The pumping seemed to help with my balance, which is not good without wind in the wing.

Thanks for all your comments and tips.

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marc5 said..
Now 20+ days into winging, the last 8 in the Gorge. Wooo-hooo, had to buy a 4.5 Slick to handle the days over 20 mph average (gusts to 30). Still, due to my inexperience and inefficient pumping, I needed my 6.5 Slick on days in the high teens when others were using 5.0s.

I moved down to a Slingshot i76 in B/91cm mast/61cm fuse/42cm stab. It's so much faster and more maneuverable, BUT even with moving the foil back in the tracks I feel like I have way too much front foot--like it's glued to the deck near the front of the pad on my Fanatic Sky Wing 5'-8" 125L board. Nearly all my weight is on the front foot. Is this inexperience or should I move the foil back so it is at the back of the tracks? The foil is about 1.5" from the back now. Would other foils (maybe HA) be less front-foot dominant?

And after dozens of jibe attempts I finally made one and even switched my feet after making the turn! What a great feeling not to swim for a change. What helped me was actively pumping the board through the turn with the wing parked over my head. The pumping seemed to help with my balance, which is not good without wind in the wing.

Thanks for all your comments and tips.

A way to go marc5, it is nice to read about your progress :) The pumping skills improve quite a bit over time, you will get there soon.

About the front foot pressure - in my case, when I started to ride a shorter board I had a problem that the nose often wanted to go up and I put the mast more to the back of the mast track. I don't know what happened but after some sessions (maybe 5-10) I returned the mast to the middle of the track and I don't have that problem any longer so I guess it can be that you just need a few more sessions to find a better balance. I didn't need to change the equipment for that and I really don't know what I changed in my riding style.
That said, some combinations of boards & foils can be a bit "incompatible" in a way that you need to move your mast more forward or more backwards.
I would suggest you to put the mast where you find it easiest to ride at the beginning and move it a bit forward after some time. For me, the approximate position described by Robert Stehlik (Blue Planet Show) works fine (www.blueplanetsurf.com/blogs/news/foil-board-setup-tips-board-foil-foil-placement-fo/).

Congratulations on your first foiling jibe. After a while, "swimming jibes" becomes rare and foiling jibes will be your second nature. If you needed to pump the board, maybe you needed a bit more speed (or a bit more wind) to make the turn easier. Just be careful to put the wing above your head if there is a chance you will overtake the wind - otherwise the wing gets a push from the wrong side and stops your jibe.

marc thanks for sharing your experience, I'm a decade younger but catching up every day. There are guys at my local spot your age and they are ripping too, although we have mostly had very light winds the last few months (and insanely hot weather). I see the guys on bigger boards learn to jibe quickly, I thought I would be jibing fast too but not so, it's my next goal along with just having fun like you.

Great news on progress.
Re foot pressure - if you move the foil mast back, then the front foil will go back as well, which means if you leave your feet where they are, then there will be relatively more front foot pressure and you'll require more speed/force to fly the foil. If you move the foil mast forwards it will move the foil further forwards (under your feet) and it might be a bit more balanced? A rough rule is to have the front foil positioned between your feet. You could leave the foil where it is and shift your feet further back as well - getting them over the front foil?
I spent a bit of time tinkering with my settings. I figured out where I wanted my feet to be (on the footstraps) and then moved the foil mast to where I thought it would be right. Come back in after a 10 min sesh and made some minor changes to the foil mast position and after 2 separate adjustments, found the sweet spot.
Keep working on the pumping. I've migrated away from 5.5m wing to a 5m slick as the 5.5 keeps touching the wingtips and stuffing up the pumping routine. The 5 is a bit easier to manhandle making the pumping easier in light conditions.

I've winged on the windsurf setup of the i76 in B w/ the long fuselage on a Fanatic board.... needed to push the mast all the way back and I was still standing ahead of the foostrap inserts. You can try moving the mast into A position... the i76 has a really long neck that puts the wing way in front of the mast.

I remember the i76 w/ the long fuse still having a pretty fun high speed carve... would be interesting to try it again

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sunsetsailboards said..
I've winged on the windsurf setup of the i76 in B w/ the long fuselage on a Fanatic board.... needed to push the mast all the way back and I was still standing ahead of the foostrap inserts. You can try moving the mast into A position... the i76 has a really long neck that puts the wing way in front of the mast.

I remember the i76 w/ the long fuse still having a pretty fun high speed carve... would be interesting to try it again

I tried my old i76 on Sunday just out of curiosity to see how it would feel after a year on the Takuma Helium. It was pretty windy and I happened to have a 3.5 Slick, but I could barely get going and the setup felt very draggy even on the surface and super front foot heavy once flying. I switched to the Helium (same wind or less) and was able to fly right away with no resistance. It's possible that my setup was all wrong...I didn't feel like playing with it at all after the initial frustration (and the time it took me to get back to the beach). I also had the mast pretty much all the way back in the tracks and the fuse set to B.

I think the long fuselage amplifies the effect of the stabilizer. A more neutral stab angle might have helped (or a much shorter fuselage).

I was learning on the i76, but I think I could have progressed a lot faster if I had started on a more efficient foil right away. The Helium has been amazing. The Slingshots got me windfoiling and I was able to take the first steps in wingfoiling with them as well, but I'm probably going to try to sell them now. My feeling after Sunday was that I wouldn't want to use the i76 for winging even as a spare (I have two sets of Takuma anyway, so the Kujira 980 is a better backup for the Helium 1500 than the i76 even though the i76 is closer in surface area).

I had some good windfoil sessions on the i76 in 2020 and early 2021, but I don't windfoil at all anymore.