I'm looking to build my quiver of foils. I'm looking for something that will go really fast. What design considerations should you consider for straight out speed?

Thin profile.
Small size.
Lots of wind.
Shorter mast.
Big balls for pilot.

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Sputnik11 said..
I'm looking to build my quiver of foils. I'm looking for something that will go really fast. What design considerations should you consider for straight out speed?

I'm at the same crossroads as you as I have Armstrong I'm tossing up between HS 625 and the HS 850

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LeeD said..
Thin profile.
Small size.
Lots of wind.
Shorter mast.
Big balls for pilot.

Why the short mast?

Long mast is better. Look at kite foil race kit. High aspect small foil.

What ya riding now ?

As we are talking about speed and sending it this is a screenshot of my top 5 speeds on a windsurfer these numbers are in knots except the distance which is in kilometres
If I could crack 30 kts on a wing foil I would have reached my goal
Ive crashed at 40 kts a few times and a long mast is what I will be on more time for adjustment pitch

Long...110 cm
For speed..70-80.
Short..55.

If you need to adjust up and down more than 30cm., you are not ready for speed.
Pick a foil size for powered up sailing.
At 25 knot wind, 6.0 sail, maybe a 350 sq cm wing, which starts to fly at 20 knots boats speed.
That size will be comfortable at 30 knots.
Not sure if you guys are talking about 15 knot winds only.

Racers use long masts for lean angles and going straight through chop without having to adjust pitch.

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hilly said..
Racers use long masts for lean angles and going straight through chop without having to adjust pitch.

I agree..

You are wrong.
This thread is about speed....
You are talking course racing up and down wind. Different disiplines.
Racers go SLOW speeds, but make VMG upwind and downwind.
Don't you know the difference between speed sailing and course racing?

Speed is going across the wind and downwind in smooth water, not 2' windswell.

Strop, How would the Starboard GT setup go for speed on a ding. I see some good deals on these recently.
85 cm mast and 800 front wing??? Maybe just change rear stab to a smaller size?

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stroppo said..
As we are talking about speed and sending it this is a screenshot of my top 5 speeds on a windsurfer these numbers are in knots except the distance which is in kilometres
If I could crack 30 kts on a wing foil I would have reached my goal
Ive crashed at 40 kts a few times and a long mast is what I will be on more time for adjustment pitch

Is this Windsurfing or Windsurf Foiling?

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LeeD said..Don't you know the difference between speed sailing and course racing?

Yes, I do and surprisingly everyone else, but you, agrees long masts are better than short masts. You again are using a Trump like arguing technique and repeating your false belief as much as possible, even though you are wrong, hoping to convince people. Or just wear them down as you did in the foil on or off thread that you ruined with your denial of basic physics.

Winner of Rotto race for many years (Straight downwind) uses a long mast. Winner of The Cut downwind wingding division used a long mast. What have you won using a 70cm mast?

30kn on a Wing is smoking. My best is just short of 25kn (46kmh) and I was on a 75cm mast. During the run you are at half mast, and agreed above, you do not want to be adjusting altitude once you start your speed run.

The down side to a longer mast is drag and delayed input, you will also introduce more board drag flying higher. Also on a long mast as you power up, there comes a time when the foil starts to over power you. This comes earlier on a longer mast because of the leverage the mast gives the foil.

Upside of the longer mast is a bigger sweet spot.

If you're going fast fast, then you shouldn't really be all that canted over (I'll go back and check my footage, but I am pretty sure when everything goes light and scary, you're running pretty flat. Any edging would be counter productive to your speed.

Good thing about a shorter mast is faster responsiveness and lighter easier trim. Also a lot of the time your fast runs will be on a lake where it is potentially shallow.

Also an interesting thing with speed Winging is I seem to go faster around 20kn of wind. I have done speed runs in 35kn dead offshore and not gone as fast as I have in 15-20kn. Wings have a lot of drag and they are not very efficient.

Also interesting, I have had two of my top 5 speeds on waves surf foiling. 44.9kmh and 44.4kmh.

The speed gig is fun, can;t wait for some more fast conditions. I have some new foils that are ready for the challenge.

Also a big thing to take into account is some of the averages. 10sec and 20sec speeds.

regards,

JB

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Windgenuity said..Also interesting, I have had two of my top 5 speeds on waves surf foiling. 44.9kmh and 44.4kmh.

Waves help you go faster. My fastest times are from waves as well 43kmh. When Bastion won the COT race he was blasting past the swells so he is next level. Long mast definitely helps in ocean conditions.

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DarrylG said..
Strop, How would the Starboard GT setup go for speed on a ding. I see some good deals on these recently.
85 cm mast and 800 front wing??? Maybe just change rear stab to a smaller size?

Yeah great Darryl Kenny has one he is using for that exact purpose and reckons it's great

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Windgenuity said..

stroppo said..
As we are talking about speed and sending it this is a screenshot of my top 5 speeds on a windsurfer these numbers are in knots except the distance which is in kilometres
If I could crack 30 kts on a wing foil I would have reached my goal
Ive crashed at 40 kts a few times and a long mast is what I will be on more time for adjustment pitch

Is this Windsurfing or Windsurf Foiling?

Yeah windsurfing speed sailing this was just to show my commitment to going fast on the water and winging is next I've done 29 kts on a windfoil aswell but with my experience to date sez winging will be more controllable than windfoil I just gotta get some smaller foils for it

Looks pretty canted over a few times

Skill.
If you are going for speed, your skill needs to be solid enough you are NOT yo yo ing up and down like a porpoise.
70-80 is plenty.
No, not talking open ocean. Talking SPEED winging. Couple guys here use 85cm high aspect front foils on wings, both using the old 90 MikeZ masts, not their 110 course race masts.
They are course racers, but always talk about using their windslalom front wings...around 700 sq.cm.
I windfoil with a 600 sq cm wing, for 10-19 knot winds.
I am not going for speed. The 600 flies stable in 13 knot breezes with a 5.2 sail. Low drag, easy change of direction, and jibes like a foil twice as big. You just go 2 knots faster so it's just as stable.

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stroppo said..

Windgenuity said..

stroppo said..
As we are talking about speed and sending it this is a screenshot of my top 5 speeds on a windsurfer these numbers are in knots except the distance which is in kilometres
If I could crack 30 kts on a wing foil I would have reached my goal
Ive crashed at 40 kts a few times and a long mast is what I will be on more time for adjustment pitch

Is this Windsurfing or Windsurf Foiling?

Yeah windsurfing speed sailing this was just to show my commitment to going fast on the water and winging is next I've done 29 kts on a windfoil aswell but with my experience to date sez winging will be more controllable than windfoil I just gotta get some smaller foils for it

29kn is insanely fast = Nice .

The foil I use to go fast is generally the 810cm2 kite foil by Naish. The biggest trick I find is the balance between the rear wing and preparing for the pitching moment of the foil. Too big a rear and get drag, too small a rear and at peak speed you'll encounter pitching. My new foil although a little bigger at 914, I think may have what it takes to go a little quicker just in it's pitch control stability. 30kn barrier is a big one. What are your averages like at 29kn?

I have 10sec at 43.5kmh (23.5kn)
20 sec at 41.4kmh (22.4kn)

Super keen to hit the 50kmh barrier (I do my milestones in kmh ;) ), but that's only 27kn. 29kn is like 54kmh, so I got some work to do there.

Regards,

JB

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Windgenuity said..

stroppo said..

Windgenuity said..

stroppo said..
As we are talking about speed and sending it this is a screenshot of my top 5 speeds on a windsurfer these numbers are in knots except the distance which is in kilometres
If I could crack 30 kts on a wing foil I would have reached my goal
Ive crashed at 40 kts a few times and a long mast is what I will be on more time for adjustment pitch

Is this Windsurfing or Windsurf Foiling?

Yeah windsurfing speed sailing this was just to show my commitment to going fast on the water and winging is next I've done 29 kts on a windfoil aswell but with my experience to date sez winging will be more controllable than windfoil I just gotta get some smaller foils for it

29kn is insanely fast = Nice .

The foil I use to go fast is generally the 810cm2 kite foil by Naish. The biggest trick I find is the balance between the rear wing and preparing for the pitching moment of the foil. Too big a rear and get drag, too small a rear and at peak speed you'll encounter pitching. My new foil although a little bigger at 914, I think may have what it takes to go a little quicker just in it's pitch control stability. 30kn barrier is a big one. What are your averages like at 29kn?

I have 10sec at 43.5kmh (23.5kn)
20 sec at 41.4kmh (22.4kn)

Super keen to hit the 50kmh barrier (I do my milestones in kmh ;) ), but that's only 27kn. 29kn is like 54kmh, so I got some work to do there.

Regards,

JB

Yeah my average for that sesh was 28 something at an average of my best 5x10 sec runs
some of the fast guy's here regularly windfoil at 30+

So I take it from above that something like wind foiling racks up much greater speeds than wing speed foiling ? So if you wanna go fast then what's the point in speed winging ? Just saying ...

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eppo said..
What ya riding now ?

I'm on a 85cm mast and an AXIS all round 920mm front wing (thinks its 1850 cm2 in total area) with a 440 rear wing.

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Sputnik11 said..I'm on a 85cm mast and an AXIS all round 920mm front wing (thinks its 1850 cm2 in total area) with a 440 rear wing.

Any new HA wing will be faster. Get a fast tail too

Oh, and I think my top speed so far is about 15kts, so clearly a bit of work to do to go fast.

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Sputnik11 said..
Oh, and I think my top speed so far is about 15kts, so clearly a bit of work to do to go fast.

Yep the 920 is not a fast wing at all, I have hit 20knots with the 900 axis and a 460 tail, there is no way I could do that with the 820 and 400 tail (which would be faster than the 920, I don't have a 920/440) but some of the new HPS black series will be heaps faster.

I haven't tried them yet but just though reports and looks, so much sleeker.

To go fast you need a lot of wind, to get to max speed even more wind.
When you want to make speed runs you need to go from half wind to a 45-55degree downwind course. Even flat waters like an canal as Luderitz (too shallow for a foil btw) gets rolling swell in the wind direction. To pass this rolling swell that gets bigger the more the wind increases a longer mast makes the risk of touchdowns or foil-outs a lot smaller.

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Sputnik11 said..

eppo said..
What ya riding now ?

I'm on a 85cm mast and an AXIS all round 920mm front wing (thinks its 1850 cm2 in total area) with a 440 rear wing.

Dude that's gotta be one of the slowest wings out there.