So who's switched from code to f4?

Early days but I've ridden Code (720S) and Armstrong MA and HA, and now on F4 Orca 685 winging. F4 is smooth and feels effortless. Much more comfortable at speed too. So far so good!

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Wingnutz said..
Early days but I've ridden Code (720S) and Armstrong MA and HA, and now on F4 Orca 685 winging. F4 is smooth and feels effortless. Much more comfortable at speed too. So far so good!

How does the bottom end compare to the 720S, or 850 if you had one?

It has been a while since I rode the 720S, but I would say similar if not slightly better low end on the Orca 685.
The Orca feels effortless in that it has low drag, has an easy pump, and despite being a 12.0AR foil it turns well. Like I mentioned before, early days yet but I am enjoying it so far.

The Orca 685 sounds amazing but I'm not sure how I'd go on an 865 mast. Currently parawinging on 795 Armstrong which feels perfect, riding as high as I can. I imagine with less drag I could possibly ride a tad lower and still be riding more efficiently. Can't imaging going upwind on the 750 for too long. Anyone enjoying downwinding on an 865 mast? I know some local rippers like the longer mast to help crank turns on boat wakes and when downwinding. They are next level riders and I'm not sure I'm going to adjust to riding so high.

Anyone ride these against the AFS Enduros (AR 11, turn quite well, solid and efficient mast)? Curious how they compare.

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Sheps said..
The Orca 685 sounds amazing but I'm not sure how I'd go on an 865 mast. Currently parawinging on 795 Armstrong which feels perfect, riding as high as I can. I imagine with less drag I could possibly ride a tad lower and still be riding more efficiently. Can't imaging going upwind on the 750 for too long. Anyone enjoying downwinding on an 865 mast? I know some local rippers like the longer mast to help crank turns on boat wakes and when downwinding. They are next level riders and I'm not sure I'm going to adjust to riding so high.

I have the full Orca family, and use it for wingfoil. Mainly upwind to downwind.
And had a short first parawing session a few weeks ago on the 800.

I ride in long windy fjords in Norway, where the bumps are short and steep. And also sometimes on spots on the coast of Denmark and Sweden.
Most of the time on 3.5 wing, and 685 or 800, with my 91kg + wetsuit.

Before I was on full on wingfoil race gear. 106cm mast and F4 Wahoo foils. But the Orcas got me absolutely hooked on a different style of riding.
For the Orcas I started on 95 TE, but the last two months I have been on the 75 AX.

Would never imagine going that short, as I have always been Mr Tall Mast.

No problem with the mast length. But i have seen some comparison between different brands, and a F4 75 mast is almost as long as a 80cm from a different brand. Think it was code.

I can most of the time go comfortably upwind, with the Julitta 85l board. And no problem doing tacks in tall chop and bumps.

The Orcas also breach well, so no big issues if it sticks out a bit.

Have been on F4, or design by F4, since 2017. So can't really compare against other brands. But the Orca 685 is absolutely gold for me.
Have also let several mates try it, and they all get hooked. And they are usually suprised on how easy it is to ride.

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Sheps said..
The Orca 685 sounds amazing but I'm not sure how I'd go on an 865 mast. Currently parawinging on 795 Armstrong which feels perfect, riding as high as I can. I imagine with less drag I could possibly ride a tad lower and still be riding more efficiently. Can't imaging going upwind on the 750 for too long. Anyone enjoying downwinding on an 865 mast? I know some local rippers like the longer mast to help crank turns on boat wakes and when downwinding. They are next level riders and I'm not sure I'm going to adjust to riding so high.

Have a look at the F4 AX mast (listed under prone-downwind on their website).
It's a 'skinny' mast with reduced chord and thinner section. Comes in 75, 80, 85 lengths.

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Wingnutz said..

Sheps said..
The Orca 685 sounds amazing but I'm not sure how I'd go on an 865 mast. Currently parawinging on 795 Armstrong which feels perfect, riding as high as I can. I imagine with less drag I could possibly ride a tad lower and still be riding more efficiently. Can't imaging going upwind on the 750 for too long. Anyone enjoying downwinding on an 865 mast? I know some local rippers like the longer mast to help crank turns on boat wakes and when downwinding. They are next level riders and I'm not sure I'm going to adjust to riding so high.

Have a look at the F4 AX mast (listed under prone-downwind on their website).
It's a 'skinny' mast with reduced chord and thinner section. Comes in 75, 80, 85 lengths.

You got me excited ha ha. I went to the prone/downwind section and it's not showing up for me(maybe country specific). I sent message and was told the 80 AX mast will be coming later this year.

I had a quick whip on the orca 800 demo currently here in WA courtesy of Pat Mchale. Set on the skinny 75 mast and 135 xtra short fuse tail. straight up and riding in downwind sup mode. Blends the best of a few foils. Compared to code I'd say it sits between the S and R range nicely. Easy to roll into turns and do tip breeches and equally at home pumping over bumps to maximise speed. All round a very good setup and pretty nice rig for anyone in the market for something new. The 800 is 99.5cm span so I reckon perfect big foil for sup ocean downwinders, the speed range of the foil felt great and easy point and glide wherever you wanted I wanted to go.

Did a single parawing stow Port to North Cott today on the 685 thanks to Pat McHale. I was on the 11mm 75mm mast. I've been riding the Armie Ha880 recently which is super cruzy for what I do (Parawing mini downwinders/upwinders) but I wanted something that has more speed with some roll. The 685 was effortless to connect bumps and felt slippery but so controllable. Amazing bottomed end with intuitive feeling when slowing down with good indication that you needed to pump (didn't just drop you). I went well powered with a 3.6m Ka'a parawing in 22 knots so didn't test the bottom end much and I had no issue getting on foil today. I did feel that it was easier to stall in take off than my 880 but then that's not surprising as it's a smaller foil. If I took shallower and more frequent pumps I got up easier than bigger less frequent pumps which I can get away with on the 880 mush easier. But the extra speed and crazy turning ability was worth the trade off for downwinding. I struggled to get home but it was very southerly and the Ka'a Parawing's isn't made for upwinders. I think the 800 with my Paia be nice combo for cruzier session. Absolutely stoked on this. Well worth a try peeps.

I've had a bit more time on the Orca 685 and to summarise:

Pros: Smooth, predictable, turns well for the wingspan, very good speed range, and a light setup overall.

Cons: F4 is performance gear however it must be said that the Orca wing tips are fragile.
The big one for me is the mast and foil bags are very poor quality (they are one generic size for each bag so do not fit properly, and the stitching is coming undone on the foil and mast bags after less than a month).
Lastly, F4 do not supply mast bolts and t nuts with the mast (they don't sell them either as there are too many variables, and they do not want to be held responsible for loss of masts and foils which is fair enough).

Overall I am very happy with the purchase, and I highly recommend the Orca and Wahoo foils (very different ride characteristics).
I would only hope that the bags could have been better quality and the correct fitment for the size of foil / mast / tail instead of a generic size for each item.
I don't mind buying mast bolts and t nuts, however nobody from F4 mentioned that they are not included which delayed being able to use the new setup whilst waiting for them to arrive from another online store (minor issue, but still slightly annoying).

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Wingnutz said..
I've had a bit more time on the Orca 685 and to summarise:

Pros: Smooth, predictable, turns well for the wingspan, very good speed range, and a light setup overall.

Cons: F4 is performance gear however it must be said that the Orca wing tips are fragile.
The big one for me is the mast and foil bags are very poor quality (they are one generic size for each bag so do not fit properly, and the stitching is coming undone on the foil and mast bags after less than a month).
Lastly, F4 do not supply mast bolts and t nuts with the mast (they don't sell them either as there are too many variables, and they do not want to be held responsible for loss of masts and foils which is fair enough).

Overall I am very happy with the purchase, and I highly recommend the Orca and Wahoo foils (very different ride characteristics).
I would only hope that the bags could have been better quality and the correct fitment for the size of foil / mast / tail instead of a generic size for each item.
I don't mind buying mast bolts and t nuts, however nobody from F4 mentioned that they are not included which delayed being able to use the new setup whilst waiting for them to arrive from another online store (minor issue, but still slightly annoying).

I received a 685 and 800 Orca today along with a mast and tail. The covers I received are different for each front wing but a tight fit on the 685. Quality of the covers seems ok but I agree could be better. The foils and mast are incredible if you ask me. The build quality and connection system is so strikingly next level. When you tap the assembled foil the whole kit hums like a tuning fork. Stiff like nothing else but brittle most likely so the wing tips will be fragile. If you want performance gear this could be it. If you ride shallow reefs or rock areas perhaps not the best choice. Once ridden it's hard to go back. Light wind downwinder today on the 800 and it was effortless for about 5km then I made a few mistakes and my parawing was a bit small to get up but I finished well. I half surfed up on my toeside to get up and the low end and frictionless feel made this quite easy. So I'm grateful already. Fully stoked!

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I have 685 and 800 Orcas for demo in Perth along with 75cm AX mast and small 135 tail.

Too bad it's too far from here , I'm looking for comparisons with AFS enduro 800/skinny 85 mast /
UG41. Parawing uses.Any dealers in France or Europe ?

how are people finding the 11mm skinny mast - and heavier guys been on it ?

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eppo said..
how are people finding the 11mm skinny mast - and heavier guys been on it ?

I've ridden both on multiple dw runs in various conditions over the last six weeks and for me at 67kgs I prefer the skinny but all the heavier riders that have demoed the gear have opted to buy the 13mm mast because it's crazy stiff and still considered relatively thin. I can feel the flex in the 11mm on the 800 Orca but the frictionless and loose feel is so addictive. Being such a light rider I feel I gain a lot with reduced friction and I'm bending the mast a lot less than heavier guys. I'm back on the 13mm mast from today for a while and I'm interested to see how I feel on it now. I think overall heavier guys and anyone riding bigger than the 800 and wanting to crank turns they will most likely go the 13mm.

I demoed the 1050 Orca on the 13mm mast with the XS 135 tail a while back, I was that impressed I bought that exact setup, mainly for sup foil dw.

I had wanted to try the 800 on the 11mm mast but didn't get the chance
I'm around 85kg currently and in my 60's, I'm a cruiser not a racer, so I placed a higher value on having a stiff mast for control over the 11mm speedy mast
I got it wet for the first time yesterday and despite riding cautious (over foiled, on a new setup and with a fair bit of weed around), my 3rd km on my very first paddle up on it, was, I think my fastest km on a sup foil dw to date.
Not fast at all compared to most of the better dw guys but fast for me and wasn't even trying to go fast, was just getting a feel for it.

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Sheps said..

eppo said..
how are people finding the 11mm skinny mast - and heavier guys been on it ?

I've ridden both on multiple dw runs in various conditions over the last six weeks and for me at 67kgs I prefer the skinny but all the heavier riders that have demoed the gear have opted to buy the 13mm mast because it's crazy stiff and still considered relatively thin. I can feel the flex in the 11mm on the 800 Orca but the frictionless and loose feel is so addictive. Being such a light rider I feel I gain a lot with reduced friction and I'm bending the mast a lot less than heavier guys. I'm back on the 13mm mast from today for a while and I'm interested to see how I feel on it now. I think overall heavier guys and anyone riding bigger than the 800 and wanting to crank turns they will most likely go the 13mm.

I think this is an important comment and conversation to stay on top of. This was the first slightly deeper response critique to that question about F4 that I've seen. We're getting to a point where the pinnacle of stiffness matched with performance seems relatively stabilized around 13mm. If you want both, that's where you need to look. However, dropping under 13mm to 12mm or the shocking 11mm F4 model with the short 100mm chords has some amazing loose/no drag benefits that some of us enjoy despite the added flex.

Please keep us posted on your time with the 13mm. I know what I feel in differences and what my perceived gains/losses are and it will be great to hear your ongoing thoughts.

I had a ride on the 800 orca with the 13mm mast in some very small, low energy, but relatively fast moving bumps.

The 800 had better bottom end glide than my 900 eagle x and possibly close to the 1000x but accelerated noticeably faster with the slightest increase in energy. I didn't want to get a new system but I couldn't un-feel that.

I have ordered the 800 and the 685 after being on f1 for many years. Very impressive.

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AnyBoard said..
I had a ride on the 800 orca with the 13mm mast in some very small, low energy, but relatively fast moving bumps.

The 800 had better bottom end glide than my 900 eagle x and possibly close to the 1000x but accelerated noticeably faster with the slightest increase in energy. I didn't want to get a new system but I couldn't un-feel that.

I have ordered the 800 and the 685 after being on f1 for many years. Very impressive.

Awesome. Would you mind tossing out your kg's and thoughts on the 13mm mast?

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BWalnut said..

AnyBoard said..
I had a ride on the 800 orca with the 13mm mast in some very small, low energy, but relatively fast moving bumps.

The 800 had better bottom end glide than my 900 eagle x and possibly close to the 1000x but accelerated noticeably faster with the slightest increase in energy. I didn't want to get a new system but I couldn't un-feel that.

I have ordered the 800 and the 685 after being on f1 for many years. Very impressive.

Awesome. Would you mind tossing out your kg's and thoughts on the 13mm mast?

65kg The mast is very stiff. Definitely stiffer than my fone which was ahead of its time for thin and stiff. Its weird because I normally would have needed maybe the 1000x to support me in such low energy but the 1000 and 900 would have been too slow to keep going forward without pumping yet the 800 orca could just sit there. It's hard to say how much the mast contributes to this efficiency as I think the Fone mast is pretty efficient and smooth but the f4 felt quieter again.
The setup also felt nervous in a good way, ready to just roll left and right in a funny surfy feeling. To
me foiling has always felt like snowboarding more than surfing but this foil felt more surfy. The wind died after about 1.5 hours on foil unfortunately but I had felt enough to know it is time for a new feeling.

i ordered both the 800 and 685 Orcas and now wondering whether i should take the chance without a test ride and just get the get the 635 manta for prone.

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AnyBoard said..

65kg The mast is very stiff. Definitely stiffer than my fone which was ahead of its time for thin and stiff. Its weird because I normally would have needed maybe the 1000x to support me in such low energy but the 1000 and 900 would have been too slow to keep going forward without pumping yet the 800 orca could just sit there. It's hard to say how much the mast contributes to this efficiency as I think the Fone mast is pretty efficient and smooth but the f4 felt quieter again.
The setup also felt nervous in a good way, ready to just roll left and right in a funny surfy feeling. To
me foiling has always felt like snowboarding more than surfing but this foil felt more surfy. The wind died after about 1.5 hours on foil unfortunately but I had felt enough to know it is time for a new feeling.

i ordered both the 800 and 685 Orcas and now wondering whether i should take the chance without a test ride and just get the get the 635 manta for prone.

Thanks for the rundown. It's pretty shocking the mast impact on speed range, at least for me. Not saying that's 100% the experience you're having but it's in there for sure. Once you've felt it your brain can't go back. Your weight seems like it makes you a good candidate for the AX mast that Sheps is on too.

Love hearing the Orcas are surfy too. I have friends with both Orcas and Mantas who vouch for either design. Please keep us posted if you add a Manta to the mix.

The Orcas is for sure hard to un-feel??

I haven't been on anything else than F4, and they have never had a mast thicker than 13mm. So I have tried the Orca Vs other front wings, on the same mast.

Going from the F4 Hooki 760, 815 and 999, and Wahoos, the Orca was for sure a completely new feeling, with the same mast. The 685 felt like it almost had the same low end as the 999. But much faster, better glide, turned better, and actually easier to ride.

Now I am on the 75AX with my 87kg, +6mm wetsuit for the Norwegian winter.
Used to be on the 13mm 95.
Wing with upwind/downwind focus. And gradually getting into parawing.

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eppo said..
how are people finding the 11mm skinny mast - and heavier guys been on it ?

I'm around 86kg and decided to go the 13mm mast.
I paddle dw mainly so will be on the 1050 a lot and even 1250 Orca.
13mm is still a thin mast and is plenty stiff enough.