The new masts from Project Cedrus are apparently sold out, but I have not seen any reports/reviews yet...anyone???

From the newsletter 4 sept:Become a Launch CustomerWe promised you'd be the first to know, so we're giving you a heads-up that a small pre-production batch of Evolution Masts will be available to order tomorrow at 10AM PST. The link below will be active as soon as the launch is live. These masts will ship in the November-December timeframe.

Revenue from Launch Customer masts is critical for our growth, and we thank you in advance for your support. We'll be moving into a new facility in January, scaling production shortly thereafter, for those who wish to wait.

We'll also be in Hood River for AWSI later this week with the first Evolution Cedrus masts, so let us know if you're around and want to check them out in person!

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Jeroensurf said..
... These masts will ship in the November-December timeframe.

Saw that post, but didn't catch the time-frame reference...thanks...looking forward to hearing how these go...

The Foil Shop in CA has one for testing (I believe its a 75cm surf model). I expect we will start to hear some feedback soon.

Quote from a recent rider of Evolution Surf below. There are still a couple slots of Evolution Wind available to Launch Customers, and we hope to open deposits for Q1 2024 delivery soon. Thanks for your patience and support.

"Dude. The mast is perfect

I could feel it being faster in the water. And the shorter chord helps it pivot way better in the pocket

I'm in love"

How much in the water testing was done on the mast prior to release?

Innovative idea but can someone explain the purpose of the scallop trailing edge that is different for short vs long mast?

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Ingenuity said..
Innovative idea but can someone explain the purpose of the scallop trailing edge that is different for short vs long mast?

Lots of detail on the Cedrus website. My incomplete paraphrasing:

Surf mast - Intended to maximize efficiency at slower speeds where ventilation isn't an issue. Narrower chord at the waterline reduces drag.

Wind mast - longer chord at waterline has more drag but prevents ventilation at higher speeds

Wondering which mast to go with as an all arounder. Not really a speed demon. Wing in surf. Wing DW. DW SUP. Wondering how the Surf version compares to an Axis All mast for stiffness. How the wind stacks up for drag.

We should have more feedback on the Evolution Wind for comparison soon. The choice will largely depend on your riding style and mast length. Surf is definitely faster turning and more playful due to shorter chord length. It also has better glide, again due to less wetted area. It's stiffer than the Cedrus Classic and Axis 19mm Aluminum. Surf was really optimized for riders who are trying to link sets, pump for long periods, and are therefore super sensitive to drag.

Wind will shine in longer mast lengths, where torsional stiffness tends to suffer. The longer chord length provides massive torsional stiffness benefits and completely eliminates ventilation at aggressive speeds and angles where it is most common. (no ventilation has been experienced on Surf, either). When I wing foiled Wind, it felt like I was on rails. It wants to go straight and fast under power. It still has excellent glide and much less drag than the Classic or other 19mm thick masts due to lower spray drag at the water piercing region. A lot of these heavily tapered masts are actually well over 130mm chord length up high, which leads to a lot of drag when riding low. The unique design of wind being shorter chord length up high keeps drag low as you move up and down in the water column. So even though Wind technically has more drag than Surf, it still has great glide and top end. If you're riding powered (kites, wings, big/fast swell) then I think the benefits of Wind outweigh the increase in drag. Also for bigger riders, wider boards, especially longer mast lengths, it will be significantly stiffer (Surf is not available above 90cm anyway). We had feedback from a lot of long Clydesdale customers (90cm+) that torsional stiffness was really lacking, and this is really just basic solid mechanics. So we took no chances with Wind and made it the most torsionally rigid mast on the market, which improves control and reduces ventilation due to mast twisting.

There's a ton of info on the site, and we'll work to parse it down to infographics and more digestible data as we get more feedback and closer to opening pre-orders/deposits.

Appreciate the answer. Helps. I've already been all over your website so decently filled in on concepts. Just trying to get a firm grasp on the extent of compromise between stiffness/drag between the 2 before I lay out the ca$h. I'm looking at an 82 or 85 cm mast which will put me a just below or around 90cm overall. Leaning toward wind, but glide/drag are important to me. Both sound promising.

Been demoing the Wind 80cm.

Used with heavy chop HA1125 with 1210 tips, HA925 and HA725 with 60cm fuse.

Mast has not ventilated, no matter how hard it is pushed. Super reliable and smooth feeling. The real test for me is the HA725. I ride in strong onshore/sideshore conditions with extreme chop and rough water texture. Cuts through the water like butter. Super smooth and reliable at high speed. Feels nice and smooth rail to rail. Glide is consistent and feels good.

New connection system is super stiff & strong. Build quality is amazing just like the old mast. Thing is built to last for years. Feels like a really future proof system.

Would be nice if mast came with a protective cover. Only thing not to like is the price but you get what you pay for and this is a super high tech/quality piece of gear.

Would really like to try SURF to see how they match up.

Thanks for the firsthand feedback. A couple of follow up questions:

Did you feel like the lengthened chord impact turning vs a more traditional mast?

did you notice any ramp up/down in drag depending on how high/low you were riding on the mast (due to the varying chord), or was the ramp in drag pretty linear / typical?

did you weigh the mast, with or without plate and adapter?

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Velocicraptor said..
Thanks for the firsthand feedback. A couple of follow up questions:

Did you feel like the lengthened chord impact turning vs a more traditional mast?

did you notice any ramp up/down in drag depending on how high/low you were riding on the mast (due to the varying chord), or was the ramp in drag pretty linear / typical?

did you weigh the mast, with or without plate and adapter?

No, I didn't feel like the chord limited turning ability at all. I was on a 60cm fuse, I prefer 50cm but was not available currently. That was the limiting factor for me.

The whole experience is smooth and predictable. I didn't notice any ramp in drag. It kind of feels like the mast is not there. I just have to worry about the foil.

I do not have an accurate scale. The mast feels solid in the hands but not heavy. It is not a feather weight. It feels like it's built to take abuse.

Can you discribe how and where it differs for you from the Clydesdale?

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Jeroensurf said..
Can you discribe how and where it differs for you from the Clydesdale?

I can pretty easily push the Clydesdale to ventilate. Really easy to do with the HA725.

EC Wind is smoother and totally ventilation free. You can push this mast as hard as you want and performance does not change. Better glide and less draggy feel. It's also stiffer. It's a big upgrade.

Thanks for sharing your candid feedback. This is precisely how Evolution Wind was engineered to perform. I want to address a few things:
1) We are working on a cover. It's been on our radar, but we have been too busy with mast production to get to the cover. It will be an add-on option so those waiting on masts fear not that you will miss out.
2) These prototype Evolutions have a different mount connection system than the production masts. We borrowed the Clydesdale version for the prototypes, because it allowed us to use the same machined components (mounts, inserts) for both style masts, saving considerable time and cost for the small production run. Moving forward, each mast will have it's own mount, and both the mount and mast will be lighter thanks to a shorter "plug" at the top of the mast. It will basically be in between the Clydesdale and Classic. The mount will fully capture the carbon mast and be much shorter/lighter/less draggy than the Prototype above.
The 80cm discussed above weighs about 1900g. With these changes, the production version will be around 1600g (I'll post weights when out of paint). As mentioned, it is not the lightest mast anymore, but still lighter than any solid carbon mast. The requests from current/future customers was unanimous: trade weight and cost for speed and glide. So this is exactly what we did. We gave you a faster, better gliding mast at a slight weight penalty and price increase (more carbon needed due to thinner section to maintain stiffness).
again, Kyle

Exciting to see some real world feedback. Hoping for more soon.

Kyle: will the new mast base be bonded on, or will it still be removable via screws? What is the latest delivery estimate for a production evolution? I believe the blog said late q1 24.

I'm also curious about what reduction of drag you are expecting in normal operating range of evolution wind compared to classic cedrus. Based on the rule of thumb for drag reduction I have seen used in prior posts it appears to me that evolution wind has the same drag (or even slightly more) than the classic. Based on blog posts i believe evo is 16 mm width and 130mm chord in high chord region and 20mm thickness and 120mm chord on the rest. That comes out to slightly more drag than the 19x120 of the classic just based on rhe rule of thumb of ratio change directly for width and 2x chord length ratio change as proxy for change in drag. Is that a fair analysis or are there other factors like difference in airfoil section that you believe contribute to drag reduction?

Deposits for Evolution will open up in late December after we deliver launch customer masts. We hope to begin the next batch after the Holidays for late January delivery. If you sign up for the newsletter on the site you'll be first to know when we open reservations. The mount will continue to be a bolted joint, featuring custom Grade 5 Titanium hardware that we have been working on.

Your drag analysis is not far off, however it is overlooking a very critical component of the total drag force: the drag due to spray at the water-piercing region of the mast. If you look at videos of the Classic vs. Evolution, you will see much less spray due to the thinner/longer profile. Spray drag cannot be calculated analytically, and requires CFD (computational fluid dynamics). We have worked with America's Cup CFD specialists since the beginning of Cedrus in 2016, and on Evolution we reduced spray drag by over 30% to overcome the slight increase in skin friction drag (wetted area) of the longer chord piercing region. The feedback is consistent: Evolution Wind feels faster than the Classic, and it is faster based on CFD/analysis. Especially when ridden mid-height. But when you do touch down, the 120x20mm up high actually has much less drag than most tapered masts which are well over 130mm at the board interface. Furthermore, as discussed extensively on the site, our primary goal with Evolution Wind was maximum ventilation resistance and performance at high speed. These are contradictory objectives to a well-gliding mast at low speed, and why Evolution Wind and Surf are so different.

Kyle, a question re drag from spray. Do you know if/how spray is affected by surface finish (glossy vs sanded at whatever grit size and angle)? I know this is not a Cedrus-specific question but it seems you've explored it a bit and may have some insight. Cheers

No affect. Spray is based on foil shape and size.

I'm very keen on purchasing a Cedrus carbon mast. Unfortunately, when I look at the cost of the mast, adapter, postage to Australia, Australian customs and GST and handling fees, the final cost to get this in my hot little hands is approximately $4000. AUD. .am I doing something wrong?

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mikey100 said..
I'm very keen on purchasing a Cedrus carbon mast. Unfortunately, when I look at the cost of the mast, adapter, postage to Australia, Australian customs and GST and handling fees, the final cost to get this in my hot little hands is approximately $4000. AUD. .am I doing something wrong?

That's about $800 USD for shipping and customs. Do you guys have free health care or something!

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Hwy1North said..

mikey100 said..
I'm very keen on purchasing a Cedrus carbon mast. Unfortunately, when I look at the cost of the mast, adapter, postage to Australia, Australian customs and GST and handling fees, the final cost to get this in my hot little hands is approximately $4000. AUD. .am I doing something wrong?

That's about $800 USD for shipping and customs. Do you guys have free health care or something!

App $180aud customs, $360aud GST, $90aud paperwork at customs. Plus mast, custom adapter and shipping. I want one but too many extra expenses.

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mikey100 said..

Hwy1North said..

mikey100 said..
I'm very keen on purchasing a Cedrus carbon mast. Unfortunately, when I look at the cost of the mast, adapter, postage to Australia, Australian customs and GST and handling fees, the final cost to get this in my hot little hands is approximately $4000. AUD. .am I doing something wrong?

That's about $800 USD for shipping and customs. Do you guys have free health care or something!

App $180aud customs, $360aud GST, $90aud paperwork at customs.

Figured as much. I guess Oz sticks it to you upfront. US gets you after the meal so to speak. Burger = $18 on menu. Bill = $18 + local wage subsistance charge + local and state tax + 18-30% suggested gratuity so the burger actually costs $26, paid from your wages that were garnished 30-40% and so on!

Best to purchase local anyway both for the economy and for warranty protection. Enjoy your free health care!

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Hwy1North said..

mikey100 said..
I'm very keen on purchasing a Cedrus carbon mast. Unfortunately, when I look at the cost of the mast, adapter, postage to Australia, Australian customs and GST and handling fees, the final cost to get this in my hot little hands is approximately $4000. AUD. .am I doing something wrong?

That's about $800 USD for shipping and customs. Do you guys have free health care or something!

Probably within a year or two it will be cheaper to buy a roundtrip ticket to LAX and pick it up in person

While it looks like this mast has good performance, I'll never purchase another mast with any aluminum parts again. Doesn't matter what type of anodizing they use or how much tef-gel you smear on it. It's gonna corrode within four months rendering it un-sellable.

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Thatspec said..
While it looks like this mast has good performance, I'll never purchase another mast with any aluminum parts again. Doesn't matter what type of anodizing they use or how much tef-gel you smear on it. It's gonna corrode within four months rendering it un-sellable.

I've had an 80" Cedrus Evolution Surf since December. Stoked- with the performance and adaptability, I think I'm all set for masts for the foreseeable future/don't think about masts at all anymore which is perfect. I bought it early not knowing anyone that had tried one, based on reviews which made me really freaking nervous at that price. Thankfully- it's been a really good mast in every way- stiff, slippery fast. I didn't expect miracles and it's not that, but it surprised me in that it immediately, noticeably improved performance of all my foils. I have adaptors for axis and code that fit perfect/precise and are rock solid. Comes with titanium hardware. I've had zero problems or indication of corrosion on any of the parts and I'm not exactly meticulous- quick rinse, leave it assembled in my van between uses, I take it apart when I change between axis foil and code. I left it fully assembled with my axis adapter on the first 3 months I had it. Probably a really bad idea, but other than a little persuasion with rubber mallet- no issue. Far as I know, the only aluminum is the cheapest, easiest thing to replace- the adaptor- but mines perfectly ok 8 months in. I'd say that probably the biggest drawback for me is the adaptability has increased my wandering eye at other brand foils. Cost me the price of a code 720S and 980S so far.

Oh and if you do badly abuse it they have a refurbish service. Not sure how much they can do but that's really cool IMO.

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Thatspec said..
While it looks like this mast has good performance, I'll never purchase another mast with any aluminum parts again. Doesn't matter what type of anodizing they use or how much tef-gel you smear on it. It's gonna corrode within four months rendering it un-sellable.

This is simply untrue. We use extremely effective (and expensive) anodizing and coating processes. We've proven over the last 8 years that corrosion with Cedrus is not a problem. Our new titanium hardware should eliminate any issues with seized bolts, which was really only an issue for people who didn't follow the owners info/instructions and live in places like Hawaii or Florida.

to those of you going through the checkout process on our site and finding the cost prohibitive, please contact us. We recently transitioned to Shopify and are still trying to understand international shipping/fees/duties/etc. The feedback would be helpful and maybe we can figure out how to reduce costs. We can't lower our prices, and I know the $USD hurts us. But unfortunately it's where we live, and we need mast sales to cover our health insurance costs. Yes seems crazy, but that's how our country works.