So brought myself a gong set up for wingfoiling, 5m Pulse, 5'7" Lance and XL foil and i'm struggling, not with the wing or board they are great but the foil. Every time I start to go the foil just rockets up out of the water and keeps going, I've been concentrating on keeping weight on the front foot and have been gradually moving the foil back in the tracks. Last session finally (with it at the back of the tracks) I got to the point where I could sometimes stop/avoid the meteoric rise and actually enjoy being up on the foil until a gust came and then up and off skywards she flew again.
So anyone any thoughts, is it just lack of technique or is the foil just too big for my slender self, I am pretty slight 5'7" 60Kgs?
Everything you read says a big foil helps the learning but I'm wondering whether there is actually too big and this foil is actually just too big for me/someone of my size.
The XL foil is 90cm wide,(projected) area of 1844cm? (2137cm? developed), 3..5cm thick and its volume is 3.60L.
Any one with any thoughts?

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ssegrub said..
So brought myself a gong set up for wingfoiling, 5m Pulse, 5'7" Lance and XL foil and i'm struggling, not with the wing or board they are great but the foil. Every time I start to go the foil just rockets up out of the water and keeps going, I've been concentrating on keeping weight on the front foot and have been gradually moving the foil back in the tracks. Last session finally (with it at the back of the tracks) I got to the point where I could sometimes stop/avoid the meteoric rise and actually enjoy being up on the foil until a gust came and then up and off skywards she flew again.
So anyone any thoughts, is it just lack of technique or is the foil just too big for my slender self, I am pretty slight 5'7" 60Kgs?
Everything you read says a big foil helps the learning but I'm wondering whether there is actually too big and this foil is actually just too big for me/someone of my size.
The XL foil is 90cm wide,(projected) area of 1844cm? (2137cm? developed), 3..5cm thick and its volume is 3.60L.
Any one with any thoughts?

Are you using footstraps?.

I would try standing as forward as possible on the board without the nose diving when you float&pump to get on foil.

For surfing it is too big a foil and it will rise too fast but you should be able to wing it ,you can control the acceleration with the wing.

It will have slow max speed but also very slow stall speed.

Also try to pump it less and just give it some speed and wait for it to rise. Big foils are slow, when I got my light wind foil I kept on kicking it too much. Having a bit more patience with it made it easier to control it.

What wind strengths are you out in?
Im 70kg and if winging in 15 knots+ definitely choose the smaller (1270cm2) wing instead of the 1800cm2. The bigger wing becomes a handful in stronger winds.
Given your slight weight, I'd think a combo like you have would be ideal in sub 10 up to 13-15 knots? Any more and there might be a lot of lift to control. Maybe that's the issue?

XL clothes on a small person does not fit.
S clothes on XL person does not fit.

Definitely not too big IMO.

60 kg rider.
What does DavidJohn weigh?

There's no such thing as a "too big foil" for winging, bc you can control how fast you go. A bigger foil means you'll just get lift at lower speeds. If you're "rocketing up" every time you get up, sheet in less with the hand wing and let it come up more gradually. But it sounds like you may be too far back on the board. While mast position is important, where your feet are wrt the foil is more important (at least when you're learning). So play around with that, move up the board a little bit.

Hi Ssegrub, mate the best foilers seem to have their feet in right spot on the board all the time , and foot position is critical its also tiny adjustments to make a big change in weight distribution. So stay with what youve got and be pro active at keeping the front of the board down . This will require a change in foot posi as the foil is starting to lift. You will quickly be making this adjustment with out thinking as you get exposure . The good foilers on the screen and in your area are hundreds or maybe thousands of hours on the foil buddy. They would ride your setup and make it look easy. Its a great journey and you keep learning all the time. Ask someone who is ok at foiling to ride your board and report back . They might suggest a adjustment, giddy up ,Jeff

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J Foz said..
The good foilers on the screen and in your area are hundreds or maybe thousands of hours on the foil buddy. They would ride your setup and make it look easy. Its a great journey and you keep learning all the time. Ask someone who is ok at foiling to ride your board and report back . They might suggest a adjustment, giddy up ,Jeff

Yeah, there is nothing worse than asking the most talented rider to try your gear. They'll either tell you it's **** and you need new, or just make you feel worse because they rip on it and have no pointers other than, "no problems with the gear, must be you...!"

The less natural athlete, ok foiler, struggled just as hard and might have some pointers for set up and technique, like: a big foil needs to be lifted gently by building speed with your feet closer together. As you lift, make your arms more rigid, but keep your legs loose. I like to pump a lot with my legs so I can drive the nose of the board back down in timing with pumping the hand wing. If you find yourself lifting off, a good pump of the feet will actually drive the nose back down so you can sheet the wing out and over head to avoid catastophe at speed too. Seems counter intuitive to bear off and pump to gain control, but it works. Also, at 60 kg on a 5m and an 1800 wing, you'll be gold at 10-15 knots, out of control at 20. Get a smaller wing first, then foil, then board.

A silly story ....

I have an AXIS1300 foil and have been riding either a 95L or 110L Fanatic..... due to lockdown, I have gained weight.
So I decided to sell the 110L (my weight), keep the 95L as my sinker and buy a 125L Naish for lightwind.

I always run my foils in the forward most box position...... This seems to work best for the fuller figured individuals.

I spent a good hour and a half launching myself skyward on the 125L in light winds. I needed to move my feet significantly forward.

I suggest moving your foil to the back most position and move your feet forward. Adjust from there,

Standing too far back or using too much back foot pressure when the foil comes up is the biggest problem for new guys. When the foil pops up, the tendency is to dig in with the back foot, which has to be unlearned. Having offset feet helped me, and also bending the front knee when the foil starts riding too high. Another trick is when you start to climb, point the nose of the board slightly off down wind so you can begin to build speed and concentrate on making the board level.

Nothing wrong with too big of a foil. It's actually a good tool for learning depowering. Don't be afraid to sheet out and come off foil if you feel ventilation starting to happen.

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LeeD said..
60 kg rider.
What does DavidJohn weigh?

My personal weight has nothing to do with my opinion and my answer to his question..

Sure it does.
You weigh 100 kgs. Your reference point is as a 100 kg rider.
Original poster is 60 kg.
You probably foil a lot with a 1800 sq cm foil.
Yes, you have bigger and smaller, plus the knowledge, skill, and affinity to change foils as needed.....or wanted.
Proportionally, to body weight, to match HIS ratio, you would need about a 3000 sq cm foil....for all your foiling.
Remember, it's not linear.

I should probably explain "it's not linear" ??
Big guys plow thru the chop, blast thru the windholes, and foil thru with good momentum much easier than little folkes.
You might not know "why".
It's fact, and explains why big dudes are plain faster windsurfers than equally skilled little tykes. Kinetic energy, momentum, what's in motion stays in motion.
Yes, little squirrels accelerate and stop quicker, and change direction easier.
But a big dude learning to wing on a 1800 sq cm foil has totally different problems than 60 kg riders learning to foil.
One size does not fit all.....in any sport.

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bigtone667 said..
A silly story ....

I have an AXIS1300 foil and have been riding either a 95L or 110L Fanatic..... due to lockdown, I have gained weight.
So I decided to sell the 110L (my weight), keep the 95L as my sinker and buy a 125L Naish for lightwind.

I always run my foils in the forward most box position...... This seems to work best for the fuller figured individuals.

I spent a good hour and a half launching myself skyward on the 125L in light winds. I needed to move my feet significantly forward.

I suggest moving your foil to the back most position and move your feet forward. Adjust from there,

Very funny

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bigtone667 said..
A silly story ....

I have an AXIS1300 foil and have been riding either a 95L or 110L Fanatic..... due to lockdown, I have gained weight.
So I decided to sell the 110L (my weight), keep the 95L as my sinker and buy a 125L Naish for lightwind.

I always run my foils in the forward most box position...... This seems to work best for the fuller figured individuals.

I spent a good hour and a half launching myself skyward on the 125L in light winds. I needed to move my feet significantly forward.

I suggest moving your foil to the back most position and move your feet forward. Adjust from there,

Different brands of foils need the foil mounted in different positions. When I started, I had a foil that was designed for the Fanatic box position, but bought a Naish board. The advice to put the mast all the way at the front was completely wrong for that combination. Even now, I can't mount my foil back far enough in the tracks to use the footstraps (mast all the way back, but I still need to stand 5-6" in front of the strap mounts).

All the forward on your Fanatic is basically all the way back on your Naish...


For the OP:
- Feet further forward (if you are using straps, you might need to ditch them for a while - as I did)
- When gusts hit, make sure you are keeping the Wing forward/toward the nose of the board. If you are bracing against the extra power (which is a normal response) you are likely to be moving the wing back toward you/the back of the board. This will transfer the power to your back foot and the foil will come up. Pushing the Wing forward will keep the weight on your front foot.

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Jonesey32 said..

bigtone667 said..
A silly story ....

I have an AXIS1300 foil and have been riding either a 95L or 110L Fanatic..... due to lockdown, I have gained weight.
So I decided to sell the 110L (my weight), keep the 95L as my sinker and buy a 125L Naish for lightwind.

I always run my foils in the forward most box position...... This seems to work best for the fuller figured individuals.

I spent a good hour and a half launching myself skyward on the 125L in light winds. I needed to move my feet significantly forward.

I suggest moving your foil to the back most position and move your feet forward. Adjust from there,

Different brands of foils need the foil mounted in different positions. When I started, I had a foil that was designed for the Fanatic box position, but bought a Naish board. The advice to put the mast all the way at the front was completely wrong for that combination. Even now, I can't mount my foil back far enough in the tracks to use the footstraps (mast all the way back, but I still need to stand 5-6" in front of the strap mounts).

All the forward on your Fanatic is basically all the way back on your Naish...


For the OP:
- Feet further forward (if you are using straps, you might need to ditch them for a while - as I did)
- When gusts hit, make sure you are keeping the Wing forward/toward the nose of the board. If you are bracing against the extra power (which is a normal response) you are likely to be moving the wing back toward you/the back of the board. This will transfer the power to your back foot and the foil will come up. Pushing the Wing forward will keep the weight on your front foot.

Excellent advice, he is a quick learner and you no doubt will have helped.

this may help

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LeeD said..
Sure it does.
You weigh 100 kgs. Your reference point is as a 100 kg rider.
Original poster is 60 kg.
You probably foil a lot with a 1800 sq cm foil.
Yes, you have bigger and smaller, plus the knowledge, skill, and affinity to change foils as needed.....or wanted.
Proportionally, to body weight, to match HIS ratio, you would need about a 3000 sq cm foil....for all your foiling.
Remember, it's not linear.

What if I have friends and know people his weight that learnt on big foils and loved them?

Does this allow me to comment or is this question only 60 kg people?

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DavidJohn said..

LeeD said..
Sure it does.
You weigh 100 kgs. Your reference point is as a 100 kg rider.
Original poster is 60 kg.
You probably foil a lot with a 1800 sq cm foil.
Yes, you have bigger and smaller, plus the knowledge, skill, and affinity to change foils as needed.....or wanted.
Proportionally, to body weight, to match HIS ratio, you would need about a 3000 sq cm foil....for all your foiling.
Remember, it's not linear.

What if I have friends and know people his weight that learnt on big foils and loved them?

Does this allow me to comment or is this question only 60 kg people?

I am one of them.. 76-78kg..learnt on an armstrong cs2400 front wing and Unit 5m..After 10 or so sessions i.e. when able to foil with reasonable control, I was able to use that combo up to 25kn with even higher gusts. Wasn't fun but doable cuz unlike windsurfing you can depower the wind yet still keep your balance on the board/foil going slowly. Increase in chop is a little harder to deal with. The foil is powered by the relative movement of the water i.e. your speed, chop, wave and current.

I use much smaller foils as I progress as they are more fun but keep the cs2400 as session saver for very light wind days.

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LeeD said..
Sure it does.
You weigh 100 kgs. Your reference point is as a 100 kg rider.
Original poster is 60 kg.
You probably foil a lot with a 1800 sq cm foil.
Yes, you have bigger and smaller, plus the knowledge, skill, and affinity to change foils as needed.....or wanted.
Proportionally, to body weight, to match HIS ratio, you would need about a 3000 sq cm foil....for all your foiling.
Remember, it's not linear.

A foil that size will not hold him back when he is learning LeeD, you are way over thinking it. people less then 50kg start on big foils. my son learnt on a foil that size at less then 50kg. As others have said it's about where you put your weight on the board and where the foil is in the box.
more practice is the answer, especially on the right day and it will just click. enjoy the learning process

Not saying a 65 jg rider needs to learn on a 600 sq cm front wing.
But, we can assume as we get better in skill, we learn what size foil is "good" for our allaround use.
So we pick a "main" foil, based on predominant wind conditions, preferences, and body weight.
Say.....you 100 kg riders had to ride ONE front foil. What size would that be? Maybe 1800-2000.
So, should a 65 kg rider, who has ONE foil, also only ride 1800?

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LeeD said..
Not saying a 65 jg rider needs to learn on a 600 sq cm front wing.
But, we can assume as we get better in skill, we learn what size foil is "good" for our allaround use.
So we pick a "main" foil, based on predominant wind conditions, preferences, and body weight.
Say.....you 100 kg riders had to ride ONE front foil. What size would that be? Maybe 1800-2000.
So, should a 65 kg rider, who has ONE foil, also only ride 1800?

Not a rider LeeD, he is a total beginner rider.
In time he will most likely end up with a med HA ,thin foil under 1200cm2.Agree.

But for his first flights low wing loading is great, the most fustrating bit is getting the things to fly.

Some control problems on his first takeoffs are to be expected.

Overpowered can happen to beginners, 10 days'ers, and even to experts.
Sounds like "too much lift" issues, since stepping forwards IS being applied.
In those winds, smaller wing or smaller foil is recommended.
Wings cost more than front foils.

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Jonesey32 said..

bigtone667 said..
A silly story ....

I have an AXIS1300 foil and have been riding either a 95L or 110L Fanatic..... due to lockdown, I have gained weight.
So I decided to sell the 110L (my weight), keep the 95L as my sinker and buy a 125L Naish for lightwind.

I always run my foils in the forward most box position...... This seems to work best for the fuller figured individuals.

I spent a good hour and a half launching myself skyward on the 125L in light winds. I needed to move my feet significantly forward.

I suggest moving your foil to the back most position and move your feet forward. Adjust from there,

Different brands of foils need the foil mounted in different positions. When I started, I had a foil that was designed for the Fanatic box position, but bought a Naish board. The advice to put the mast all the way at the front was completely wrong for that combination. Even now, I can't mount my foil back far enough in the tracks to use the footstraps (mast all the way back, but I still need to stand 5-6" in front of the strap mounts).

All the forward on your Fanatic is basically all the way back on your Naish...


For the OP:
- Feet further forward (if you are using straps, you might need to ditch them for a while - as I did)
- When gusts hit, make sure you are keeping the Wing forward/toward the nose of the board. If you are bracing against the extra power (which is a normal response) you are likely to be moving the wing back toward you/the back of the board. This will transfer the power to your back foot and the foil will come up. Pushing the Wing forward will keep the weight on your front foot.

I decided to add an extra 25cm to my mast length and on both boards (95 Fanatic and 125 Naish) I had to move further forward another few inches for takeoff and then back once running. No change in the angle or position of anything but obviously proving that length does matter.

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Heliboy999 said..
this may help

I followed this advice from Heliboy 999 and the next day, boom I was up and had a much clearer and better understanding of my wing. As he says, foil and foot position all correspond move foil, move feet, don't move feet move foil.Being an ex-windsurfer, the first thing I done was put my straps on, where i thought in my opinion they should go, read underneath the board forward for more lift, ok, yup I want more lift I am a beginner. Disaster, day after day for a week, then followed this and like I say boom next day I was up and away.

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Donathon said..

Heliboy999 said..
this may help

I followed this advice from Heliboy 999 and the next day, boom I was up and had a much clearer and better understanding of my wing. As he says, foil and foot position all correspond move foil, move feet, don't move feet move foil.Being an ex-windsurfer, the first thing I done was put my straps on, where i thought in my opinion they should go, read underneath the board forward for more lift, ok, yup I want more lift I am a beginner. Disaster, day after day for a week, then followed this and like I say boom next day I was up and away.

so glad it helped you