Hi,
I am a long time kitesurfer looking at some fun on a wind wing for light wind days. At 15kn I am on a 9m kite, so it's really just for light wind. I wonder what's your recommendation for a 75kg rider. For a board, I am thinking of using either a SUP or a mini mal, as it's quite shallow and reefy for a hydro foil where I live. There is also a funky little reef break just nearby.
So, what size and type of wings should I look at buying?
As I am a beginner in this, I would be grateful for any other advices.
Cheers

5m should do the trick. 6m if you really only want to go out in 15 knots - but you won't.

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Andrash said..
Hi,
I am a long time kitesurfer looking at some fun on a wind wing for light wind days. At 15kn I am on a 9m kite, so it's really just for light wind. I wonder what's your recommendation for a 75kg rider. For a board, I am thinking of using either a SUP or a mini mal, as it's quite shallow and reefy for a hydro foil where I live. There is also a funky little reef break just nearby.
So, what size and type of wings should I look at buying?
As I am a beginner in this, I would be grateful for any other advices.
Cheers

Hey Andrash,

As you're planning to only use it on non foiling craft, size become a little less important as you're not going to be getting plaining, therefore your maximum displacement speed while cruising (until you catch a wave) is limited to quite low speeds. So powering up in many ways is just loading up your arms for no real benefit.

On a mal or SUP I really enjoy using the old MKi Wing-Surfer 4m. Mainly because it is so light and easy to use. It is softer and therefore powers up easily even in the light stuff.

If you went bigger you're also adding weight, but you may get a tiny bit more earlier, but whether it is worth it or not I doubt it.

In basic all wings will work and really any size will also because you're requiring the power to get up on foil. I have grovelled on my 7'10" wave board (101ltrs) with my 90kgs in under 10kn and can travel much faster than you could ever paddle (probably even on a race board) with the MKi 4m.

The newer MKii are available too, but my guess is you're trying to do it on the cheaper, so call up your local dealer and see if they have any, or you can grab them online here at a super cheap price - www.windgenuity.com.au/products/wingsurfer/

Enjoy and ride safe,

JB

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eppo said..
5m should do the trick. 6m if you really only want to go out in 15 knots - but you won't.

...I meant, from 15-16kn I rig up a 9m, so the wing is only for lighter or much lighter then 15kn winds...

This is interesting as I have been into a lot of sup surfing over the years and have considered getting my surf sup out and having a crack with the wing.
Are many people actually using wings on non foiling boards?

It seems like the conditions where this would be preferable are quite niche- small surf too shallow to foil and wind too light to kite or windsurf.
Or maybe people are just doing because they feel like it!

.... and how do you stay upwind? Having hard enough time on a foil - well not impossible but compared to being on a kite.

Careful, winging isn't the best in lightwinds. For me at 80kg a 5m wing with foil is only enjoyable in 9m powered twintip kiting conditions. You don't see many wings with longboards in surf , because it's a novelty act to sell wings, there is zero upwind ability without a daggerboard/center skeg. Have you considered kitefoiling for light wind? It could be a good option out back. As a someone who has winged, windfoiled and kitefoiled and lives in a place with junky lightwind I can safely say kitefoiling will get you going soonest, by a long shot. Even a 9m kite, ideally single strut, strutless or ram air can be an absolute weapon with a foil especially when backlooped to generate speed as I am sure you probably have seen. Pumping a wingfoil in light wind is the least efficient of the sports especially without a foil. In my opinion wingfoiling is best enjoyed in medium through high winds, and all with the same single wing. Kitefoiling takes considerably more skill than wingfoiling even with a strong kiting background, but could conceivably also be way cheaper to get into if you have the kite already and given that usually there's way more used kitefoil setups on the market than wingfoil boards given how new it is.

Some misleading information here.

Firstly. It is super fun on a SUP. Maybe more on a foil, but still epic on a SUP and definitely more accessible on a SUP for many more people.

Secondly. You most definitely can go up wind. And with relative ease, no need for a center/daggerboard.

Third. it is easily doable in light winds.

I have ridden a Maddog 7'10" at 101 ltrs with good success. Also ridden my Nalu Pro 10' x 28" with ease, both going upwind and both traveling way faster than you can paddle in under 10kn.

I might head out for a Nalu 10'6" session this afternoon if the swell is not too big.

It is difficult (but not impossible) to go up wind on a longer board (like 14'), the wind pushes the nose down and because the centre of lateral resistance is so far back you end up continually carving upwind. But a 14'er is epic fun going down wind.

Whilst it is not foiling, it surely is more fun than paddling in windy conditions.

Ride safe,

JB

I'll take ya word for it JB you got the experience. I'm not having luck in the lighter end of the wings range on a foil trying to get upwind on a day I would fly upwind with a kite. Bigger front wing would help of course and more experience.

okay when up and going but getting up and going - Jesus that's doing my head in in lighter winds. And even in stronger winds whilst I can stay upwind it's not effortless like on a kite.

Went out in seriously marginal winds today. No kites out even foils. Actually rescued a kite foiler the other day


Came in at 5.30

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eppo said..
I'll take ya word for it JB you got the experience. I'm not having luck in the lighter end of the wings range on a foil trying to get upwind on a day I would fly upwind with a kite. Bigger front wing would help of course and more experience.

okay when up and going but getting up and going - Jesus that's doing my head in in lighter winds. And even in stronger winds whilst I can stay upwind it's not effortless like on a kite.

I can smash a kite upwind (TT or Dir).

Here's my runs from a week ago on super gusty Pitttwater,

1 lap (approx 7km)

1 laps.

These were of coarse on the Foil.


And here is a session I did a while ago at Fisherman's Beach on my 10' x 27" Nalu Pro. The wind was super light, not kiteable (not sure where the app got 15kn from, but in the pics, i'd guess 5-8kn).

As you can see, easily going up wind, then surfing back to the beach.


Again if I get some good conditions, I will try do some more time on the SUP. But upwind is definitely possible and at good angles.

Ride safe,

JB

I've just bought my little wing, a 4m Duotone Unit, so I can't say it is easy or not on a SUP. Will soon...

But just thinking, when, where and how would be (or have been) a problem that something was difficult to learn, or hard to master? Why should things be so easy?

Perhaps, I am a bit of an ol' timer, starting to kite on a two liner Cab R3 (if anyone knows what that means), but sometimes I wish kitesurfing, and all that have grown out of it, were a bit more difficult to learn so as to prevent the crowd and the arrogance that often comes with it.

Had another good session yesterday hammering the upwind performance of the Wing-Surfer on the foil. The wind turned out to be much lighter and forecast and I actually ended up coming off foil at Newport reef and struggled for a little while to get back up (was very concerning). But managed to obtain some excellent height getting up to Newport reef in 4 Tacks. A little bit of a challenge coming back down in such light wind, but heaps of fun as always.


Not a bad way to spend a light afternoon NE'er after work.

Riding the Hover 110, Jet 1400HA/310HA/75cm and Wing-Surfer 5.3m.

Ride safe,

JB

Hey JB, I'm very impressed with the speeds you are clocking! I feel like I'm stuck in the mud on my GoFoil Maliko or IWA. What foil setup are you using?

Best, nic

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nicky said..
Hey JB, I'm very impressed with the speeds you are clocking! I feel like I'm stuck in the mud on my GoFoil Maliko or IWA. What foil setup are you using?

Best, nic

I would lay money on Hover 110, Jet 1400HA/310HA/75cm and Wing-Surfer 5.3m

But I recommend a Armstrong 1250 with 850 mast and 60 fuse

I am 90kg and started with a 4.2m f-one on a SUP for a few months. Was really good fun, even though all pretty low speed.

It took about a dozen sessions to get upwind and feel confident going anywhere on the SUP. Trick is digging in the windward rail and to do that you need some decent wind. In low wind you just get blown sideways because there isn't enough force to counter balance you digging in a rail.

15kts + on the sup even with the 4.2m was "hang on for dear life". A super good arm and shoulder workout for sure.

Then I got into foiling on a 5m wing and 2400cm2 foil. Once you can get up on foil consistency it's pretty low energy due to very low friction.

Still working very well for me 12-20 kts. Above that and it gets hard to keep that big foil in the water. Below that and you really need to wait for a gust to get up on the foil. Or at least I do..

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hilly said..

nicky said..
Hey JB, I'm very impressed with the speeds you are clocking! I feel like I'm stuck in the mud on my GoFoil Maliko or IWA. What foil setup are you using?

Best, nic

I would lay money on Hover 110, Jet 1400HA/310HA/75cm and Wing-Surfer 5.3m

But I recommend a Armstrong 1250 with 850 mast and 60 fuse

I've seen a mate clocking impressive speeds with Naish foils too.
I don't believe Armstrong are fast at all. Happy to be proven wrong if you can share some strava speeds