With so many new upgrades in material and designs are the Duotone dlabs dropping behind?
If so what is now superior and why?

Because it is Stronger , Lighter and Superior

Duotone needs to go back to the drawing board and workout their next marketing koolaid plan

2023 models will be launched in Nov anyway with new canopee materials and of course optimised profile. What I do wonder more is how the second hand value will be developing with a long term stiff frame around a worn out standard canopee material.

Not only worn out canopy. How about the longivety of the connection between hard handles and the woven fabric/ laminates? Is the inherent friction between rigid and non-rigid (albeit pumped up hard) structures spoiling the long term use of wings with hard handles / booms?

Imho, the shape of the wing and making best use of the materials would be the two main factors for a wing to become outdated compared to newer versions. The initial question may be extended with something like "does the Duotone DLab make the Ocean Rodeo Glide A out dated?".

I've had my 4.0m Dlab since March, probably around 40-50 sessions now and canopy still in great shape and feels like the day I got it. Definitely lasting better than the V1 Unit. I'm pretty sure the horizontal seam layout on the back half of the wing is acting as a load bearer to reduce/prevent canopy stretch. My 3.0m STD Unit's canopy lasting just as well too and it's had more work. They have lived through lots of jumping and freestyle without a scratch.

We are all suckers for marketing. The DLab and A-series are not outdated wings by any stretch. These are two of the most advanced wings on the market. Most of the wings that are using newer materials aren't even on the market yet and some of the newer material wings haven't worked out that well (looking at you - Reedin SWX). Almost anyone (dare I say anyone on this forum) who thinks that either of these wings is holding back their performance is kidding themselves.

Furthermore, just because there is something newer, doesn't mean that another thing is "outdated". Look at the guys going absolutely insane on the F-One Strike. On paper, that wing is far behind the curve (soft handles, conventional pressure strut, conventional canopy material), but somehow its still an excellent wing and people are pushing the limits of the sport on this "outdated" wing. Kind of makes you wonder, hmmmmmm....

Maybe I've lost a small percentage of my range or performance with a canopy that isn't crisp, but for every bit of performance lost through the equipment, I've gained more performance by building a deep familiarity and confidence with the equipment that I know so well. I'm starting to feel like constant drastic upgrades and equipment changes make me worse - not better.

Personally - I really like how OR is adding modular handle options, which allow me to continue to tweak the feel and update my quiver for a cost much cheaper than buying new wings. Similar to adding a new stabilizer to a setup versus changing brands. I like the idea of modularity and cross-compatibility between brands and wish more would go this direction.

Right now I'm focusing on wave riding and getting up on foil quickly. So the high performance stuff isn't that interesting as, imho, the flat canopies make it harder to get up in light wind, especially at these high prices when I can buy another foil or a better board for more performance. Now if they can make some outrageous safety claims like 50% less chance of canopy tear or bladder blowout, put me on the waiting list!

Select to expand quote

Foxi said..
2023 models will be launched in Nov anyway with new canopee materials and of course optimised profile. What I do wonder more is how the second hand value will be developing with a long term stiff frame around a worn out standard canopee material.

It looks like the same old canopy, but it is not. Stiffer, more durable, and more draft stable.

This new canopy in the basic dacron Unit construction out performs the current D/lab construction.

But not the new D/lab, because it also gets the same upgraded canopy.

I've ridden them all. Was blown away by the stock Unit with new canopy. I'm skipping Aluula for 2023.

Marketing should come up a fancy new name for this canopy, so people understand it's a big improvement.

Select to expand quote

Velocicraptor said..
We are all suckers for marketing. The DLab and A-series are not outdated wings by any stretch. These are two of the most advanced wings on the market. Most of the wings that are using newer materials aren't even on the market yet and some of the newer material wings haven't worked out that well (looking at you - Reedin SWX). Almost anyone (dare I say anyone on this forum) who thinks that either of these wings is holding back their performance is kidding themselves.

Furthermore, just because there is something newer, doesn't mean that another thing is "outdated". Look at the guys going absolutely insane on the F-One Strike. On paper, that wing is far behind the curve (soft handles, conventional pressure strut, conventional canopy material), but somehow its still an excellent wing and people are pushing the limits of the sport on this "outdated" wing. Kind of makes you wonder, hmmmmmm....

Maybe I've lost a small percentage of my range or performance with a canopy that isn't crisp, but for every bit of performance lost through the equipment, I've gained more performance by building a deep familiarity and confidence with the equipment that I know so well. I'm starting to feel like constant drastic upgrades and equipment changes make me worse - not better.

Personally - I really like how OR is adding modular handle options, which allow me to continue to tweak the feel and update my quiver for a cost much cheaper than buying new wings. Similar to adding a new stabilizer to a setup versus changing brands. I like the idea of modularity and cross-compatibility between brands and wish more would go this direction.

Plus 1 on this. Like getting a super small board does not turn you into Kai. I only ride in waves and regularly trash wings so paying $2.5k each is out of the question. Ride what you have.

As with JakeDawg above a wing that can handle a double overhead wave breaking on it and the foil hitting it I would be very interested. But still light weight. Unobtanium I feel

How about durability of Dlabs and OA?
I have 5.5 and 4m Dlabs with plenty of use and often in 25 to 30kn wind. No issues for me at 76kg.
I am very keen to know of any failures before buy 2023. I am aware of one which appears to be an Aluula tear failure however, is this a one off or are there more?

My 2022 DLab even being 8 months old and being heavily used, outperforms any other dacron wing ... I still prefer a second hand heavy used Dlab in good shape than any new dacron wing. Any dacron wing, with heavy usage becomes baggy ... I have seen some Fone Strikes v2 with half the use of my Dlab so baggy that they are useless.

imagine Duotone leaves the decision to us how to grab our wing ?!

Select to expand quote

Foxi said..
imagine Duotone leaves the decision to us how to grab our wing ?!

Ocean Rodeo already left the decision making to you. They also have the head start on the Aluula fabrics.
You seem to make do just fine by yourself, though. Nice work

Select to expand quote

Foxi said..
2023 models will be launched in Nov anyway with new canopee materials and of course optimised profile. What I do wonder more is how the second hand value will be developing with a long term stiff frame around a worn out standard canopee material.

At least they did a front handle for the surf shorter than before. the actual one is the worst of the market. Long and really soft and flexible. How it's possible to do a good wing like this and to don't care this detail???

Select to expand quote

Sonsaleta said..

Foxi said..
2023 models will be launched in Nov anyway with new canopee materials and of course optimised profile. What I do wonder more is how the second hand value will be developing with a long term stiff frame around a worn out standard canopee material.

At least they did a front handle for the surf shorter than before. the actual one is the worst of the market. Long and really soft and flexible. How it's possible to do a good wing like this and to don't care this detail???

Don't ya just use the front handle to tow to wing behind you on a wave? Does it matter if it's soft and wide? Being wider gives you less chance of missing it. Being soft means it wont bash you in the face when you crash.

Select to expand quote

Ju_foil said..

Sonsaleta said..

Foxi said..
2023 models will be launched in Nov anyway with new canopee materials and of course optimised profile. What I do wonder more is how the second hand value will be developing with a long term stiff frame around a worn out standard canopee material.

At least they did a front handle for the surf shorter than before. the actual one is the worst of the market. Long and really soft and flexible. How it's possible to do a good wing like this and to don't care this detail???

Don't ya just use the front handle to tow to wing behind you on a wave? Does it matter if it's soft and wide? Being wider gives you less chance of missing it. Being soft means it wont bash you in the face when you crash.

There is always a side when you are on side on condition that you need to control the wing and you can not leave it behind you all the time and if the handle is stiffer and shorter it's easier to bring it where you want during the turns(cabrinha for example that is short and soft but really good control).
Of course you can surf with it if no I would not use Duotone but yes I consider the front handle could be much better.
To miss the handle even if it's shorter I don't see how it's possible.
Also when you go out of the water with waves walking on the rocks with the foil up and you have to do everything quick you appreciate also a handle stiffer to control the wing and not to damage it on the foil.
Until now all the people with who I talk are thinking the same about this handle. Actually in 2023 duotone do the handle shorter. I suppose it's for doing better, no?

Select to expand quote

Sonsaleta said..

Ju_foil said..

Sonsaleta said..

Foxi said..
2023 models will be launched in Nov anyway with new canopee materials and of course optimised profile. What I do wonder more is how the second hand value will be developing with a long term stiff frame around a worn out standard canopee material.

At least they did a front handle for the surf shorter than before. the actual one is the worst of the market. Long and really soft and flexible. How it's possible to do a good wing like this and to don't care this detail???

Don't ya just use the front handle to tow to wing behind you on a wave? Does it matter if it's soft and wide? Being wider gives you less chance of missing it. Being soft means it wont bash you in the face when you crash.

There is always a side when you are on side on condition that you need to control the wing and you can not leave it behind you all the time and if the handle is stiffer and shorter it's easier to bring it where you want during the turns(cabrinha for example that is short and soft but really good control).
Of course you can surf with it if no I would not use Duotone but yes I consider the front handle could be much better.
To miss the handle even if it's shorter I don't see how it's possible.
Also when you go out of the water with waves walking on the rocks with the foil up and you have to do everything quick you appreciate also a handle stiffer to control the wing and not to damage it on the foil.
Until now all the people with who I talk are thinking the same about this handle. Actually in 2023 duotone do the handle shorter. I suppose it's for doing better, no?

Yeah for sure I do use the front (rigid) handle when I'm walking up the beach with wing overhead to keep it off the rocks etc.

Maybe I need to try a Cabrina for comparison to see what I'm missing out on :)

that Cab handles are imo awesome, they really ad control over the wing.

Select to expand quote

Sonsaleta said..

. Actually in 2023 duotone do the handle shorter. I suppose it's for doing better, no?

It's stiffer

Cab front handle is the best I've used but I prefer the BRM power handles.