I've decided to switch from the 909 Balz Pro to a different foil. I was focusing on freestyle and riding in small, gusty lakes. The foil performed great, but I feel like the system is becoming a bit outdated, and I don't think they'll be changing their setup anytime soon.Anyone else also rode SAB before? Currently, my top option is Armstrong, but I'm unsure if they'll be focusing on freestyle equipment in the coming years.Has anyone had experience with other brands? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Went from Sabfoil to AFS. No regrets whatsoever.

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petthatdawg said..
I've decided to switch from the 909 Balz Pro to a different foil. I was focusing on freestyle and riding in small, gusty lakes. The foil performed great, but I feel like the system is becoming a bit outdated, and I don't think they'll be changing their setup anytime soon.Anyone else also rode SAB before? Currently, my top option is Armstrong, but I'm unsure if they'll be focusing on freestyle equipment in the coming years.Has anyone had experience with other brands? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

I went from SABFoil to Gong. Apart from the lower prices I think the quality is better and the fuselage system is more efficient - especially the v3 foils. The Gong HM mast and foils feel much more rigid than the SABFoil Kraken stuff I was using before

I'm not sure about Armstrong for freestyle either. Most of their new stuff seems really swell ride and DW focused. Cash looks pretty good on it though!
I like my AFS stuff a lot but I'm on Silks which are more surf oriented. I handed them to a freestyle rider for a day and he went bananas on them. The pure range that the pros do freestyle on is probably a good choice for freestyle, speed, and glide.

AFS Pure 700/900 V2, check what Alain Fedit and Axel Gerard doing with it. I was riding the Balz 909 and smaller Balz Foils also before, the Pure 900 with Uhm Mast 85 is lighter and stiffer with at least same freestyle abilities as 909 Balz.

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petthatdawg said..
I've decided to switch from the 909 Balz Pro to a different foil. I was focusing on freestyle and riding in small, gusty lakes. The foil performed great, but I feel like the system is becoming a bit outdated, and I don't think they'll be changing their setup anytime soon.Anyone else also rode SAB before? Currently, my top option is Armstrong, but I'm unsure if they'll be focusing on freestyle equipment in the coming years.Has anyone had experience with other brands? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

How much do you weigh? I'd basically get whatever successful freestylers your size are using.

Thanks for all the answers
Afs looks amazing I would go for the pure 700 and later ad the ha 1100 for lightwind
Do you guys think the uhm masts is worth it and suitable for jumping?
I weigh 150 lbs

You can read about the differences here:
afs-foiling.com/how-to-choose-your-afs-foiling-carbon-mast/

All the AFS masts I've ridden are phenomenally stiff and have no issues. I love the UHM masts, both the 75cm and 80cm are amazing and very different from each other based on the chord length. As you go down in model price you go up in thickness and chord depth. A buddy went with the cheapest (crazy cheap), the HR model, and it's still only 16mm thick but has a deeper chord that does reduce maneuverability. But his pump and glide is really good on that mast since it's so stable. Some freestylers I know like the point straight, fast and locked in feel that a deeper chord offers.

At 150lbs you should be able to pick whatever you want and AFS has unbelievably good customer service and warranties (3 years on masts) so if you have the funds and want their highest performance the UHM is excellent.

I also use AFS (I have the Silk 1050 and Pure Race 560 and about to receive a Pure 900). They are awesome foils. The masts are soooo stiff. I have the UHM 80 and UHM 95 masts.

I also had a day on the Pure 700 (and Pure 900). Both are great throwabout foils. Both are also very fast (I went over 27knots on the 700).

The UHM are fine for jumping. For swell riding the thinner UHM is also amazing for maintaining glide.

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petthatdawg said..
Thanks for all the answers
Afs looks amazing I would go for the pure 700 and later ad the ha 1100 for lightwind
Do you guys think the uhm masts is worth it and suitable for jumping?
I weigh 150 lbs

My weight is 206 lbs, and I recently used an AFS setup. Despite my desire to get an AFS foil, I experienced wobbling with the 80 cm UHM mast, especially when using the 900 and 1100 foils while going upwind. It's likely that lighter riders don't face this issue. I'm looking for a stiffer setup. What brands are known for making stiff masts suitable for heavier riders like me?

97kg on a good dump day and tried a lot of stuff. The UHM80 is stiffer as most, but fully agree you can feel movement with the 1100.an Axis HM and Gofoil are stiffer, Codefoil a tiny bit with wider span foils.The downside is that those systems do feel more draggy to me.

Give Duotone a try. the new dlab mast is super stiff and the carve dlab super good for freestyle. carve 3 due end of the month

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Jeroensurf said..
97kg on a good dump day and tried a lot of stuff. The UHM80 is stiffer as most, but fully agree you can feel movement with the 1100.an Axis HM and Gofoil are stiffer, Codefoil a tiny bit with wider span foils.The downside is that those systems do feel more draggy to me.

Is that the new new gofoil? Last gofoil stuff I tried wasn't super stiff despite being solid carbon all the way though

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Jeroensurf said..
97kg on a good dump day and tried a lot of stuff. The UHM80 is stiffer as most, but fully agree you can feel movement with the 1100.an Axis HM and Gofoil are stiffer, Codefoil a tiny bit with wider span foils.The downside is that those systems do feel more draggy to me.

I was on SAB 83 cm mast with 999 front wing today and did not feel any wobbling with this set-up. I will soon test the Duotone DLAB
with the glide foils soon to make decision for my transition as opposed to what felt with the AFS (UHM skinny 80 cm) and the Slingshot carbon (Phantasm 80 cm) masts.

Was wondering why you would want to change from Sabfoil to another brand for freestyling?
That's a discipline that Sabfoil has an extensive line-up of front wings. Either winging or windsurfing. The Kraken system was developed with freestyle (abuse) in mind. And the system is relatively modern.

You might find stiffer solution regarding the mast, but that would probably not be designed for freestyle-usage. Just like Sabfoil has de HM-masts in the Red Devil serie.

Other brands seem (to come froma) more race (like Mikeslab), surf (like Armstrong, Axis, Cloud 9, AFS) or downwind-oriented (like Code Foils) intention.

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SA_AL said..

petthatdawg said..
Thanks for all the answers
Afs looks amazing I would go for the pure 700 and later ad the ha 1100 for lightwind
Do you guys think the uhm masts is worth it and suitable for jumping?
I weigh 150 lbs

My weight is 206 lbs, and I recently used an AFS setup. Despite my desire to get an AFS foil, I experienced wobbling with the 80 cm UHM mast, especially when using the 900 and 1100 foils while going upwind. It's likely that lighter riders don't face this issue. I'm looking for a stiffer setup. What brands are known for making stiff masts suitable for heavier riders like me?

North, Duotone.

Brand new foil system from Slingshot launches on March 17th called the One Lock. I would say its right up your ally if you like freestyle, as the One lock carves and pops very easily.

It's all carbon and no separate fuselage piece and so its 1-2 lbs. lighter than Phantasm foils.

No screws or tools required, so it makes for some really quick swapping of front and rear wings, the foils also have an option of the RTS mounting system and once you place the 2 front carriages in the board tracks there are no more tools needed.

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CoreAS said..
Brand new foil system from Slingshot launches on March 17th called the One Lock. I would say its right up your ally if you like freestyle, as the One lock carves and pops very easily.

It's all carbon and no separate fuselage piece and so its 1-2 lbs. lighter than Phantasm foils.

No screws or tools required, so it makes for some really quick swapping of front and rear wings, the foils also have an option of the RTS mounting system and once you place the 2 front carriages in the board tracks there are no more tools needed.

When I, at 206 lbs, used the Phantasm 82 cm mast with the PTM926, I noticed considerable wobbling. In contrast, the SAB foil 83 cm with a large front wing did not exhibit the same issue. Consequently, I am hesitant to switch to Slingshot. Additionally, I've read about potential long-term wear and tear concerns with the one-lock system.

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SA_AL said..

CoreAS said..
Brand new foil system from Slingshot launches on March 17th called the One Lock. I would say its right up your ally if you like freestyle, as the One lock carves and pops very easily.

It's all carbon and no separate fuselage piece and so its 1-2 lbs. lighter than Phantasm foils.

No screws or tools required, so it makes for some really quick swapping of front and rear wings, the foils also have an option of the RTS mounting system and once you place the 2 front carriages in the board tracks there are no more tools needed.

When I, at 206 lbs, used the Phantasm 82 cm mast with the PTM926, I noticed considerable wobbling. In contrast, the SAB foil 83 cm with a large front wing did not exhibit the same issue. Consequently, I am hesitant to switch to Slingshot. Additionally, I've read about potential long-term wear and tear concerns with the one-lock system.

I'm the same weight. Recently rode a centre's Slingshot Phantasm masts in 82 and 93cm. The 93 was almost unrideable with an 899 foil due to the extreme flex. Absolutely hated it (i don't tend to use that word much!). 82 was better with a mid aspect foil, but still underwhelming. The Armstrong Performance masts are fantastic. I had zero issues with wear or connection problems. I'm now on KT and while they are not the top in stiffness, they are solid and excellent performance for the money.

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petthatdawg said..
Thanks for all the answers
Afs looks amazing I would go for the pure 700 and later ad the ha 1100 for lightwind
Do you guys think the uhm masts is worth it and suitable for jumping?
I weigh 150 lbs

I weigh 180 lbs and jump with the AFS UHM masts often. probably only +/- 10 ft or so on a good day, so nothing crazy, but no issues. I jump the Silk 850 (which isn't meant for jumping) and haven't had any issues yet, but the pure range is better suited for the job. I ride the 75 and 85 masts. 85 is stiffer, but supposedly 80 is the stiffest. I only really notice any flex with the wide span of the Pure 1100.

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Velocicraptor said..

petthatdawg said..
Thanks for all the answers
Afs looks amazing I would go for the pure 700 and later ad the ha 1100 for lightwind
Do you guys think the uhm masts is worth it and suitable for jumping?
I weigh 150 lbs

I weigh 180 lbs and jump with the AFS UHM masts often. probably only +/- 10 ft or so on a good day, so nothing crazy, but no issues. I jump the Silk 850 (which isn't meant for jumping) and haven't had any issues yet, but the pure range is better suited for the job. I ride the 75 and 85 masts. 85 is stiffer, but supposedly 80 is the stiffest. I only really notice any flex with the wide span of the Pure 1100.

I've used the Skinny 80 cm AFS mast (labeled UHM Advanced) with both the 900 and 1300 Enduro. Being 25 lbs heavier, I noticed some wobbling. I'm curious if you've tried the thicker HM or HR masts instead of the skinny advanced mast. I was considering getting the AFS, but the wobbling made me reconsider

No. Ive only tried the 75 and 85 UHM. I feel like the 75 is flexier than the 85, but that could be biased since I primarily ride that mast with the 1100.

Im not surprised that a rider of your size would feel flex with the 1300, but I am a little surprised that you'd feel it much on the 900.

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Velocicraptor said..
No. Ive only tried the 75 and 85 UHM. I feel like the 75 is flexier than the 85, but that could be biased since I primarily ride that mast with the 1100.

Im not surprised that a rider of your size would feel flex with the 1300, but I am a little surprised that you'd feel it much on the 900.

I rode the 1300 on light wind (10-12 knots) and 900 at >18 knots. 900 flexed primarily when I loaded going upwind. 1300 at low speed was not as prominent.

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usa22 said..
AFS Pure 700/900 V2, check what Alain Fedit and Axel Gerard doing with it. I was riding the Balz 909 and smaller Balz Foils also before, the Pure 900 with Uhm Mast 85 is lighter and stiffer with at least same freestyle abilities as 909 Balz.

Lol did you ever hear of Balz Muller?

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MProject04 said..

usa22 said..
AFS Pure 700/900 V2, check what Alain Fedit and Axel Gerard doing with it. I was riding the Balz 909 and smaller Balz Foils also before, the Pure 900 with Uhm Mast 85 is lighter and stiffer with at least same freestyle abilities as 909 Balz.

Lol did you ever hear of Balz Muller?

Alas, Balz is too old to be a benchmark. Axel is 16.

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TooMuchEpoxy said..

Jeroensurf said..
97kg on a good dump day and tried a lot of stuff. The UHM80 is stiffer as most, but fully agree you can feel movement with the 1100.an Axis HM and Gofoil are stiffer, Codefoil a tiny bit with wider span foils.The downside is that those systems do feel more draggy to me.

Is that the new new gofoil? Last gofoil stuff I tried wasn't super stiff despite being solid carbon all the way though

Tried the latest and the MAST felt as stiff as the Axis HM. The frontweings weren,t my cup of tea.With 97kg I can get a woble in any system. but it is finding the right personal balance.

I'm 98kg +, foiling for 6 years, and use the E1300/1100 and the UHM 80cm mast, I've only experienced a couple of times the wobble that you mention, not sure if mast, or wing, it never threw me off or put me off a line so I can live with it and no different from code/unifoil/sabfoil/axis/gofoil, but on closer inspection with AFS it was the front wing screw slowly working lose winging in overhead waves and pushing the system to the limit. I first looked at duotone but they only do the dlab slim version with a small chord and narrow mast catered for small riders, so our cohort of 90+kgs is not catered for.

I've had a worse experience recently on an axis PCHM 82cm mast with the 1201, 1180 etc plus you get movement in their mast to fuselage connection too, and this design requires stronger foils (fireballs) at extra cost $$$ for the design constraints of the fuse to front wing connection. As others have said, pick your medicine. For me, I'm happy with AFS, I don't jump unless kiting and have 2 years + 10 months left with the 3 year mast warranty.

I didn't try the new Armstrong masts, they may be good, but after the first batch of noodles and a dozen bolts to hold the system together just reeks of a design issue not yet addressed....

FWIW when I was searching for a new brand this year I dismissed all brands that have a legacy male to female mast to fuselage connection as at my weight one always feels movement and they wear out quickly IMO and I am not of a fan of this design. This did not leave many brands to choose from, maybe KT could be good, but the mast may not be as efficient...but they may be releasing a new mast soon...

Good luck with your endeavour to find something that does not exist for our weight category (yet), a 13.5 mm thick, narrow chord, fast and efficient mast that has no flex whatsoever. If you find it let us know.

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SA_AL said..

CoreAS said..
Brand new foil system from Slingshot launches on March 17th called the One Lock. I would say its right up your ally if you like freestyle, as the One lock carves and pops very easily.

It's all carbon and no separate fuselage piece and so its 1-2 lbs. lighter than Phantasm foils.

No screws or tools required, so it makes for some really quick swapping of front and rear wings, the foils also have an option of the RTS mounting system and once you place the 2 front carriages in the board tracks there are no more tools needed.

When I, at 206 lbs, used the Phantasm 82 cm mast with the PTM926, I noticed considerable wobbling. In contrast, the SAB foil 83 cm with a large front wing did not exhibit the same issue. Consequently, I am hesitant to switch to Slingshot. Additionally, I've read about potential long-term wear and tear concerns with the one-lock system.

I am 195 lbs. with wetsuit (was 205lbs when I first rode the phantasm) the new 82cm High Modular mast is reported to be 40% stiffer than the phantasm carbon mast. Slingshot also has 3 masts this year, aluminum, standard carbon and high modular carbon.

I rode the HM mast 3 days in a row last week and I wouldn't want anything stiffer than this mast and I push foils pretty hard.

With regards to wear and tear, the system is basically 3 triangles, and its carbon on carbon even if it wears, it just synchs up tighter over the years.

The one lock system brings the front wing and rear wing together, even if it breaks its virtually impossible to pull apart per Freds video below

www.instagram.com/reel/C_lndh_ypnW/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

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Windoc said..

SA_AL said..

CoreAS said..
Brand new foil system from Slingshot launches on March 17th called the One Lock. I would say its right up your ally if you like freestyle, as the One lock carves and pops very easily.

It's all carbon and no separate fuselage piece and so its 1-2 lbs. lighter than Phantasm foils.

No screws or tools required, so it makes for some really quick swapping of front and rear wings, the foils also have an option of the RTS mounting system and once you place the 2 front carriages in the board tracks there are no more tools needed.

When I, at 206 lbs, used the Phantasm 82 cm mast with the PTM926, I noticed considerable wobbling. In contrast, the SAB foil 83 cm with a large front wing did not exhibit the same issue. Consequently, I am hesitant to switch to Slingshot. Additionally, I've read about potential long-term wear and tear concerns with the one-lock system.

I'm the same weight. Recently rode a centre's Slingshot Phantasm masts in 82 and 93cm. The 93 was almost unrideable with an 899 foil due to the extreme flex. Absolutely hated it (i don't tend to use that word much!). 82 was better with a mid aspect foil, but still underwhelming. The Armstrong Performance masts are fantastic. I had zero issues with wear or connection problems. I'm now on KT and while they are not the top in stiffness, they are solid and excellent performance for the money.

Granted the Phantasm foil system is now 5 years old, and a lot has changed in that time with other foil mast stiffness and profiles etc., but if you get a chance maybe try the 82cm High Modular mast.

The one lock is an entirely new system, the mast collar that the front wing and rear wing slides into is all one piece so there is no movement at the "fuse" to mast joint either...(I say fuse, but on the one lock there isn't a traditional fuselage)

Phantasm line isn't 5 years old it came out mid to late 2021, and honestly those masts were already super soft even for that time period.

While SAB is one of the companies that actually seems to have some focus on freestyle, if you want to change to a different brand, I think you'll find others out there with better masts and components compared to SAB. The standard Kraken masts are outdated compared to what else is on offer from AFS, F-One, Duotone, Armstrong, etc...

SAB stuff is generally pretty strong though.

As far as mast/fuselage/wing integration goes, Duotone D/LAB is one of my favorites the way everything fits together... their Carve 2.0 (and soon 3.0) line is what their freestyle team uses. For AFS, it's the Pure 700/900 lineup. Not sure about Armstrong and F-One as I don't sell those brands.

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sunsetsailboards said..
Phantasm line isn't 5 years old it came out mid to late 2021, and honestly those masts were already super soft even for that time period.

While SAB is one of the companies that actually seems to have some focus on freestyle, if you want to change to a different brand, I think you'll find others out there with better masts and components compared to SAB. The standard Kraken masts are outdated compared to what else is on offer from AFS, F-One, Duotone, Armstrong, etc...

SAB stuff is generally pretty strong though.

As far as mast/fuselage/wing integration goes, Duotone D/LAB is one of my favorites the way everything fits together... their Carve 2.0 (and soon 3.0) line is what their freestyle team uses. For AFS, it's the Pure 700/900 lineup. Not sure about Armstrong and F-One as I don't sell those brands.

You're right it was 2021 when they launched phantasm...and fair to say allot has changed between 2021 and 2025 so testing a foil system that was actually "designed in 2020" is not going to feel the same compared to latest technologies.

I have tried other brands, and they all have their unique qualities, masts and connections have come a long way in past couple of years.