Hi high authorities! Sorry if I post an old question but couldn't find an appropriate response.

I mainly wing on the Axis ART 999 and the Fanatic sky wing 95l 2022 and loving it. Starting to consider go down in board size (and probably foil size to the 799) for windier days, and think that a sinker around 40-50 l would suite my 80 kg.

Here is the question: will a prone board with bevels and kick-tail adversely affect the take-off with these HA foils, or doesn't really matter with such a small board?

I really like look of the F-One Rocket Surf and the Naish but the ones with straps are a little small (F-One) or non-existing (Naish).

Cheers!

Howdy,

I am 80kg and find about 45l ideal for a sinker. Whilst a 30ish liter board is my ideal prone size I find the extra volume for winging means I can use the one board in all conditions including down to 10-12knots. A simple flat bottom shape or single concave with no (or minimal) rail bevel and no tail step/cutout seems best. My prone Freedom Foil board at 32l is awesome in the surf but sucks getting up on a 999 with a wing. The bottom is just too slow with so much surface planing area cut away. It is doable but not the most fun. My 44l Axis Pump on the other hand is easy to get up on the surface and building board speed to get my preferred 899 going with minimal fuss. It is a bit harder to sink a 45l board but I still find it faster and easier than knee starting at that volume. Cheers!

My learnings.....

I am using either a 45litre Cloud IX or a 51L Sling Skywalker against 110kg bodyweight. I stinkbug start on both but have found the Skywalker a lot easier simply because it distributes the volume horizontally over a large area (5'10") and is quite wide right through to the tail (fish shape). All that additional horizontal surface area makes it easier to get to the surface. The Cloud IX (4'10") is more a gun shape with the volume held vertically (so to speak), so it is not as easy to move to the water surface.

I have used both of them with foils at HA values of 9.9 and 7.0 and seen no notable difference in behavior for me .....

Because I am doing a stinkbug start and popping up from the knees, most of my work involves getting the board to the surface to start planing before I stand up. Once I get to the water surface I have quite good surface speed with either board and so the board shape becomes irrelevant when I popup and then engage the foil because I am already trucking along at the surface.

For me personally, the skywalker (squarer shape) is advantageous using the stinkbug start to just get to the water surface. After that the Cloud IX is in front because it is small with almost no swing weight.

Well at 75kg although 77 ish lately , the difference between the 34L, FG and the 39L FG is night and day. It's only 5L but it's the extra length (plus 1 inch extra width along that length) that counts. Pivot point on the 34L had such a small margin of error before you either fell forward or backwards. 39l margin of pivot error is much higher.

so not going too short is the summary. You want enough to easily pop up that nose and also as per all sailing get better planning speed once on surface.

plus the FG has all the characteristics of what they say works best with HA foils which has been covered in other posts.

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eppo said..
Well at 75kg although 77 ish lately , the difference between the 34L, FG and the 39L FG is night and day. It's only 5L but it's the extra length (plus 1 inch extra width along that length) that counts. Pivot point on the 34L had such a small margin of error before you either fell forward or backwards. 39l margin of pivot error is much higher.

so not going too short is the summary. You want enough to easily pop up that nose and also as per all sailing get better planning speed once on surface.

plus the FG has all the characteristics of what they say works best with HA foils which has been covered in other posts.

Thanks for this eppo! We're a similar weight, and I'm considering moving from a 5'2 x 26" 80L board to something smaller for wing-foiling. Is it worth moving to a 5'0 x 25" by 70L or should I instead by looking at a 40L sinker? At this stage I only want 1 board...

Cheers, nic

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nicky said..

eppo said..
Well at 75kg although 77 ish lately , the difference between the 34L, FG and the 39L FG is night and day. It's only 5L but it's the extra length (plus 1 inch extra width along that length) that counts. Pivot point on the 34L had such a small margin of error before you either fell forward or backwards. 39l margin of pivot error is much higher.

so not going too short is the summary. You want enough to easily pop up that nose and also as per all sailing get better planning speed once on surface.

plus the FG has all the characteristics of what they say works best with HA foils which has been covered in other posts.

Thanks for this eppo! We're a similar weight, and I'm considering moving from a 5'2 x 26" 80L board to something smaller for wing-foiling. Is it worth moving to a 5'0 x 25" by 70L or should I instead by looking at a 40L sinker? At this stage I only want 1 board...

Cheers, nic

For me, the sinker is not an option unless there is 18/20 knots minimum. Therefore, two boards minimum.

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eppo said..
Well at 75kg although 77 ish lately , the difference between the 34L, FG and the 39L FG is night and day. It's only 5L but it's the extra length (plus 1 inch extra width along that length) that counts. Pivot point on the 34L had such a small margin of error before you either fell forward or backwards. 39l margin of pivot error is much higher.

so not going too short is the summary. You want enough to easily pop up that nose and also as per all sailing get better planning speed once on surface.

plus the FG has all the characteristics of what they say works best with HA foils which has been covered in other posts.

Interesting.....I have the 4.5 and have struggled doing sinker starts , I wondered about the 4'10 thanks eppo

Yeh kobo it's totally different. Don't panic anymore and getting out on wings that I should be on. The 4'5 I was always forced to be on a wing size too big for actual riding. We even did Albany the other day, from the old whale factory to Middleton. Deep dark ocean full of big bities and big ocean swell. Wouldn't have ever dreamed of doing it on the 4'5. Even then I was staining my pants until I got into the Middleton bay lol!

Nic . I'd find your ultimate everyday rider first. Recon at our weight we could go as low as 60 litres. Maybe 65 to be sure.


i know by the end of the predictable summer thermals I will have to get a bigger board. But it's my prone board as well so will wait and see. I still have my moment on the sinker when I'm like "multiple 4 letter words" need a bigger board today.

I'm 82 kg, so a bit heavier than you. I ride the 4'11 60 liter as a big board. I need a little gust to get going, but for me this is not a sinker board. I still knee start on it. With your weight you might go down to the 50 even. My son rides that. I haven't been on it yet. It looks like an awesome board!

When it comes to sinker boards I ride the 4'5, 34 liter. For me this is the best allrounder, but I recently rode the 4'0 27 liter for the first time with the wing. I didn't like the older 3'11 for wing because every little mistake was punished. On every touchdown I would crash. The new one however is loads better. The volume is not what makes the difference between the two. The longer waterline of the 4'5 helps to get going, but the shorter length of the 4'0 helps to get it out of the water.

With the 4'5 you cannot go wrong, i would be my safe bet as a sinker board. I will be riding my 4'0 a bit more from now on though :)

I still knee start the 39L sinker - stink bud method. Sometimes I will squat start if she's really honking just to change it up.

In the end depends on what you want. If you want to have that sinker for strong winds then the 4'5 is quite doable. But for me I want to me on a sensible wing size and still have the small swing weight whilst in waves and or down winding swell. And of course the pumpability being smaller than say the 60 litre.
so stink bud with the 4'10 for me is the sweet spot to put up the same wing size as everyone else on their floaters. 4'5 you tend to be one wing size up which then becomes a handful when trying to ride waves - especially when you carve / pump into the wind hard.

With sinker boards, do you switch feet or ride toeside until the next transition?

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bhc said..
With sinker boards, do you switch feet or ride toeside until the next transition?

I am a natural footer, but start easiest on goofy healside. So I start goofie, do one foot swap to natural and I stay there till my next crash.

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HubDekkers said..
I'm 82 kg, so a bit heavier than you. I ride the 4'11 60 liter as a big board. I need a little gust to get going, but for me this is not a sinker board. I still knee start on it. With your weight you might go down to the 50 even. My son rides that. I haven't been on it yet. It looks like an awesome board!

When it comes to sinker boards I ride the 4'5, 34 liter. For me this is the best allrounder, but I recently rode the 4'0 27 liter for the first time with the wing. I didn't like the older 3'11 for wing because every little mistake was punished. On every touchdown I would crash. The new one however is loads better. The volume is not what makes the difference between the two. The longer waterline of the 4'5 helps to get going, but the shorter length of the 4'0 helps to get it out of the water.

With the 4'5 you cannot go wrong, i would be my safe bet as a sinker board. I will be riding my 4'0 a bit more from now on though :)

Thanks for all the input! Really helpful, though I'm not sure where to go. Probably a little bigger than 30lish since the inland/lake wind where I wing is gusty and unpredictable when strong.

A question to Eppo and HubDekkers and others: the FG boards looks awesome but do they really work well with Axis HA foils? I think I've seen someone questioning this.

Cheers!

Swap feet. Yeh I do. Was really tricky on the 4'5 but okay on the 4'10. Downwind just stay as is in natural stance.

.. doesn't have to be an FG. I was just using that as an example. Lots of good boards out there with good design. not sure on the axis, I know they need to be put further back and armie foils more forward.


The FG does have a really long track so maybe you would be okay. Someone else might know for sure.

I'm 75kg and used to ride a 75l, 5'0 board.

Couldn't find what I wanted as my next board but new I didn't want a full sinker.
Ordered a custom size wing board from The Carbon co - 4'6" x 22 @ 55L. Haven't used my 75L board yet in months. Still use normal wing sizes, knee start it and get it going in 12-14knots with ease. Absolutely love it. Light, jumps like a beast but can easily use it in light wind. No probs in ocean swell and chop too. Can still paddle it back like a prone board if wind dies.
Best thing I ever did!

Nice dimensions stylez, especially width wise.

Thanks Eppo,

It is great - I could've gone a little smaller volume wise but the 55 allows for easy knee starts in lighter wind so no complaints.

To relate it back to topic, I only use high aspect foils too. Also use straps and don't foot swap anymore

Yeh that's it. If you want to use one board only and at a decent level 55/60 for our weight seems to best compromise - given the right shape of course.

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eppo said..
Yeh that's it. If you want to use one board only and at a decent level 55/60 for our weight seems to best compromise - given the right shape of course.

Nice - thanks all. You've convinced to to downsize from my 80L 5'2x26" to a 62L 4'10x24" (instead of a 5'0x25"). Much appreciated :)

Can confirm after going down the sinker rabbit hole originally I had at 82kgs: 5'0 80L down to my 4'6 prone at 38L I've settled with the ensis 4'4 x 22 57L for winging. I also only ride high aspects and can get it going in 10-12 knots. Feels just as nimble under foot at my prone but that little extra volume really helps with starts and also bouncing back up on foil after jumps.
Squat starts work best with the prone but to get up without flipping like an idiot it takes a good 16-17knots.
stink bud method on the 57L I can get going in 10-12. Anything less than that I go surfing or find something else to do.