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Sputnik11 said..

JonathanC said..

Sputnik11 said..

toppleover said..
I have a couple of Need Essentails, imo the chest zip is noticeably more flexible than the back zip.

I'm a bit of a woos in the cold so went with a 5/4 front zip.

Hey Sputnik, did you get the cheaper 5/4 unsealed? Just as a heads up and sorry I didn't clarify, the fully seam sealed ones are a quantum warmer. I've got one of the 543 hooded unsealed ones and it's great but basically let's water in through every seam. The 3/2 fully sealed that I've literally used 100's of times still hardly lets a drop in.
If you feel the cold do your self a favour and get one of the fully sealed ones. They are great to deal with, I'm sure they would change the order if you rang the Torquay shop.

The other thing I've found that makes a huge difference is a wind proof jacket over the top, I've got a Mystic Wind Barrier Jacket - it's a kiting one but perfect for winging. It's thin and super light and totally blocks the wind and the windchill.

I got this one - needessentials.com/collections/mens-wetsuits/products/5-4mm-premium-thermal-chest-zip-wetsuit

Sorry Sputnik, they leak like a sieve. You need something like this
needessentials.com/collections/mens-wetsuits/products/4-3-liquid-taped-thermal-chest-zip-wetsuit

i got the 5mm hooded version of the one you bought and it basically isn't sealed, still a great wetsuit but you need to accept that you are wet as soon as you walk in.
The liquid taped wetsuit with a wind proof barrier like the Mystic kite top is the Melbourne winter 'bomb' IMO
They also do a smooth skin front zip jacket which cuts windchill dramatically- that over the top of a sealed wetsuit is really good. I reckon it's worth a drive to Torquay to check them all out and get optimal size and style sorted

Body glove, Mobys, Xcel, Rip Curl have all been great, thick soft stretchy neoprene comes at a price, the suit needs to fit well, the thicker the neoprene the heavier and more tiring it is to use the suit, my winter 5mm mobys is a workout in itself, some suits are crazy warm, my body glove has a million holes but its tight fitting and very warm but still soft and flexible, good stretch behind the knees, good knee pads, not pinching around inner arm at elbow, seam taping, soft double neck, good scratch and zips are all important factors
you can use the plastic bag 'trick' to get your hands and feet in a tight suit without 'pulling' too hard and ripping the neoprene
I buy most of my suits used but have them for each season change of temperature 2mm - 5mm short john to semi dry

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JonathanC said..

...
The liquid taped wetsuit with a wind proof barrier like the Mystic kite top is the Melbourne winter 'bomb' IMO
They also do a smooth skin front zip jacket which cuts windchill dramatically- that over the top of a sealed wetsuit is really good. I reckon it's worth a drive to Torquay to check them all out and get optimal size and style sorted

It depends on your skill level and workload and expectations as to what suit is "the bomb" for Melbourne in winter.

If you're a skilled wing foiler and only fall a few times in a session then you need a warmer suit. You don't spend enough time in the water to get the suit warm and every fall is a flush. If you're being energetic and dropping frequently you can get away with a less warm suit.

I have been using a needessentials 6/5/4 liquid taped thermal since 2018. It is very comfortable and warm. I like it so much I recently bought another one. It's pure luxury on horrible winter's day to be snugly wrapped in a super warm wetsuit. That's sort of the trap with needessentials, the suits are so cheap it's too easy to just buy another. Every new version improves on the quality from the previous versions.

My favourite all round suit is the needessentials 4mm liquid taped thermal suit. Add the lycra vest with hood and it's warm enough for winter if you keep your work rate high.

I am not a fan of smooth skin suits. The smooth skin is far too fragile. It tears, perishes and splits. That goes for all brands O'Neill, RipCurl, Need, While I understand wind chill I think it's irrelevant. A good enough wetsuit it more than warm enough no matter how windy it is and double lined suits are far more robust and durable.

I'm also not a fan of layering up wetsuits. It's cumbersome and nowhere near as warm as a decent wetsuit. A 2mm top over a 3mm wetsuit is not as warm as a 5mm or even a 4mm. I do like to wear a thermal layer under a suit for extra warmth. Polypropylene or merino under a wetsuit makes things a fair bit warmer when you're hanging on the beach or standing in the breeze on a foil. Still not as warm as a proper thermally lined suit.

To add to the winter luxury, take a 5ltr container of hot water wrapped in your towel. At the end of the session wash down with hot water and dry off with a warm towel. Dryrobe changing robes are also a wonderful thing when the weather is bad.

I've had Oneils, Neil Prydes, Body Gloves, and a Bare dry suit that has lasted 22years (w/3 sets of neck and wrist seals) All are great but my favorites by far are my ion's. I doubt I'll ever buy another brand. I haven't had them long enough to vouch for durability but they are very warm and the most comfortable suits I've ever worn.

I'm very happy with my Need Essentials steamer. It's a top loader and is by far the most comfortable wetsuit I've owned.

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JonathanC said..

Sputnik11 said..

JonathanC said..

Sputnik11 said..

toppleover said..
I have a couple of Need Essentails, imo the chest zip is noticeably more flexible than the back zip.

I'm a bit of a woos in the cold so went with a 5/4 front zip.

Hey Sputnik, did you get the cheaper 5/4 unsealed? Just as a heads up and sorry I didn't clarify, the fully seam sealed ones are a quantum warmer. I've got one of the 543 hooded unsealed ones and it's great but basically let's water in through every seam. The 3/2 fully sealed that I've literally used 100's of times still hardly lets a drop in.
If you feel the cold do your self a favour and get one of the fully sealed ones. They are great to deal with, I'm sure they would change the order if you rang the Torquay shop.

The other thing I've found that makes a huge difference is a wind proof jacket over the top, I've got a Mystic Wind Barrier Jacket - it's a kiting one but perfect for winging. It's thin and super light and totally blocks the wind and the windchill.

I got this one - needessentials.com/collections/mens-wetsuits/products/5-4mm-premium-thermal-chest-zip-wetsuit

Sorry Sputnik, they leak like a sieve. You need something like this
needessentials.com/collections/mens-wetsuits/products/4-3-liquid-taped-thermal-chest-zip-wetsuit

i got the 5mm hooded version of the one you bought and it basically isn't sealed, still a great wetsuit but you need to accept that you are wet as soon as you walk in.
The liquid taped wetsuit with a wind proof barrier like the Mystic kite top is the Melbourne winter 'bomb' IMO
They also do a smooth skin front zip jacket which cuts windchill dramatically- that over the top of a sealed wetsuit is really good. I reckon it's worth a drive to Torquay to check them all out and get optimal size and style sorted

Debuted the wetsuit this week in the surf at Ocean Grove. Pretty happy with it. Little leakage. My shorts actually came out fairly dry. Overall, happy after a couple of uses. Will keep fingers crossed for durability.

Projectblank.com.au

great wetsuits as well, would not surprise me if is another needessnetial owned brand

How about wetsuit repairs? Any recommendations?

I have an O'Neil steamer that's not that old & fits well but is splitting under the arms. I'm thinking sewing in larger gussets would solve the problem.

Flashbombs, ONiel, and excell are all pretty much the standard. Step it up to a Patagucci, sure.
Stay away from Ion. Total garbage with zero customer support. Mine literally fell apart after 3 months, whereas my flashbomb used the same time(I alternate suits) was cherry. I'm still burned about the ION suit, they assured me that there would be support if it wasn't holding up, so I gave it a go.

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gregwho said..
How about wetsuit repairs? Any recommendations?

...

With RipCurl suits I return them to the shop I bought them from and they forward them on to RipCurl, that can save some of the postage cost. Alternatively, ring RipCurl, get a quote then post the suit. www.ripcurl.com/au/help/warranty-care.html

The support has always been legendary and everybody has a story about RipCurl doing amazing things with old suits. Not so good anymore.

A bit of google searching should show up a local wetsuit maker. We have a guy who has been making suits for nearly 50 years. I bought a dive suit from him in the 70's. A bit expensive though.

I do most of my own repairs. Tears and general wear and tear are pretty easy to fix. I just finished a repair to replace the hood where the lining and neoprene of the hood had degraded. I bought a cheap hood off Amazon, amputated the old hood, trimmed the new hood to fit, and glued and blind stitched the new hood on. It was easy.

Glue tears with neoprene glue. www.gearaid.com/products/aquaseal-repair-adhesive-neoprene Don't use too much. Follow the instructions. It dries soft and flexible. Don't use urethane glues for tears. It dries hard and just tears the neoprene again.

Blind stitch the outside of the seam by hand using polyester thread. A simple overhand stitch is fine. It's surprising how easy it is to sew. The neoprene is nice and flexible and pulls in so the sewing ends up nice and straight. I only sew repairs to seams. Small tears just get glued.

Flexible urethane adhesive to reseal seams or renew split liquid taping. stormsure.com.au/products/stormsure-black-flexible-adhesive

Iron on repair patches and tapes are pretty good. It takes a little practice to get it right.

Be careful about asking what glues to use in board sports shops. They'll sell you whatever glue they have and it's usually some crappy urethane bond.

Smooth skin suits can be repaired but the fabric is a lot more fragile.

There's a certain point where it's not worth getting a wetsuit repaired. With repairs costing $50-100 plus postage it only takes a few repairs and you're getting close to the cost of a new suit from needEssentials. Old suits are not as warm as new suits no matter how good the condition looks.

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martyman said..
Flashbombs, ONiel, and excell are all pretty much the standard. Step it up to a Patagucci, sure.
Stay away from Ion. Total garbage with zero customer support. Mine literally fell apart after 3 months, whereas my flashbomb used the same time(I alternate suits) was cherry. I'm still burned about the ION suit, they assured me that there would be support if it wasn't holding up, so I gave it a go.

Agree regarding ION. Looking and feeling great, but. Mine opened up a seam mid back to a big hole after one year. While using it several times per week all year round, I believe a proper wetsuit should last a little longer. My Peak surely did (similar price point as Needessentials). Flashbomb also, agree.

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Kraut said..

martyman said..
Flashbombs, ONiel, and excell are all pretty much the standard. Step it up to a Patagucci, sure.
Stay away from Ion. Total garbage with zero customer support. Mine literally fell apart after 3 months, whereas my flashbomb used the same time(I alternate suits) was cherry. I'm still burned about the ION suit, they assured me that there would be support if it wasn't holding up, so I gave it a go.

Agree regarding ION. Looking and feeling great, but. Mine opened up a seam mid back to a big hole after one year. While using it several times per week all year round, I believe a proper wetsuit should last a little longer. My Peak surely did (similar price point as Needessentials). Flashbomb also, agree.

Interesting about Ion.. I got a 4/3 ion in 2019 and still going really well, as in holding together at seams etc.. I'd use it at least 50% of time from May- October and it would easily be into 75 plus sessions. I always wash my wetsuits after surfs and dry in partial shade
I used to be a staunch supporter of Needs but mines fallen apart after one season. However I Will probably get another one though!
Anyone who shelled out $650-$700 on a flash bomb or Psycho will tell you how good they are but anecdotal evidence suggests the longevity doesn't blow competitors out of the park.
I think
the secret is 3 wetsuits on rotation!

Xcel all day long. Still have my summer 4/3 that I got married in 16 years ago, was in regular use up until last season. On my second 5/4 drylock winter suit in a decade. Suit integrity never an issue, just upgrading because of improvements in warmth and flex. I live at 63 degrees North.

In case anyone curious about shark stop wetsuits:

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timmcg89 said..

Kraut said..

martyman said..
Flashbombs, ONiel, and excell are all pretty much the standard. Step it up to a Patagucci, sure.
Stay away from Ion. Total garbage with zero customer support. Mine literally fell apart after 3 months, whereas my flashbomb used the same time(I alternate suits) was cherry. I'm still burned about the ION suit, they assured me that there would be support if it wasn't holding up, so I gave it a go.

Agree regarding ION. Looking and feeling great, but. Mine opened up a seam mid back to a big hole after one year. While using it several times per week all year round, I believe a proper wetsuit should last a little longer. My Peak surely did (similar price point as Needessentials). Flashbomb also, agree.

Interesting about Ion.. I got a 4/3 ion in 2019 and still going really well, as in holding together at seams etc.. I'd use it at least 50% of time from May- October and it would easily be into 75 plus sessions. I always wash my wetsuits after surfs and dry in partial shade
I used to be a staunch supporter of Needs but mines fallen apart after one season. However I Will probably get another one though!
Anyone who shelled out $650-$700 on a flash bomb or Psycho will tell you how good they are but anecdotal evidence suggests the longevity doesn't blow competitors out of the park.
I think
the secret is 3 wetsuits on rotation!

second that! Ion .. others are in various state of desintegration

I heard neoprene bubbles are nitrogen that gradually leaks so neoprene loses some of its insulation. Suit may not fall apart but doesn't keep warm. Abandoned coaxing my 5/4 O'Neil through a 4th winter and bought a much warmer and cheaper 5/4.

This is a great thread. I haven't read all of it, but what I have read I am finding very informative and interesting. The only thing that could make it better is links to the suit or suits being discussed.

For years I have worn the top-of-the-line O'Neil Psycho series in a 4/3 for all-around cold weather sailing. From there to a shorty for warmer days. Recently I purchased the latest Psycho Tech 4/3+ and I'm not so happy with it. It's significantly heavier than the old 4/3 and stiffer to get in and out of. Apparently it has an extra thick material inside the neoprene. Yes, it's warm but I wish I had a straight 4/3.

A friend swears by his Needs Essentials suits for half the price of the O'Neil. I wish I had gone that route and will the next time.

I have owned a few Patagonia winter suits then switched to O'Neil psycho tech 2 5.5/4 for 4 years. Great suits but have had to do some minor repairs. This year switched to O'Neil Hyperfreak 4/3+ at about half the price of the psycho tech and so far happy with the fit, flexibility, warmth and durability. Not sure if it will take me through the entire winter but good to go if >10 degrees C air temp. I wear an impact vest under the suit so it may get me through the winter and days of 0 degrees C.

Bob

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FRP said..
I have owned a few Patagonia winter suits then switched to O'Neil psycho tech 2 5.5/4 for 4 years. Great suits but have had to do some minor repairs. This year switched to O'Neil Hyperfreak 4/3+ at about half the price of the psycho tech and so far happy with the fit, flexibility, warmth and durability. Not sure if it will take me through the entire winter but good to go if >10 degrees C air temp. I wear an impact vest under the suit so it may get me through the winter and days of 0 degrees C.

Bob

Hyperfreek seams are not taped on the outside though. Do you feel water get thru the seams?

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Velocicraptor said..
First step is to find a reputable brand that fits you well.

This the the most important advice, with taking care of your wetsuit (rinse and dry in shade, never hang by the shoulders, ...)

I was buying only Rip Curl wetsuits, as I live 1 mile from the factory, so they adjusted them to my size (cutting arms and legs, moving the knee patches) for free. But not anymore, as they do not make chest zips models anymore in France, and their new no-zip cut does not fit me (too tight in the shoulders, I ripped my 4/3 apart in 6 months). So I switched to SRFACE, which provide half-sizes (XLS) that fit me better. (I was not aware that NeedEssentials now offers an XLS, they did not when I looked)

Most mainstream brands stopped providing intermediate sizes (such as XLS) progressively in the recent years, I guess for easier stock management. It is a good thing that these new direct orders wetsuit companies appeared to provide more sizing options for us who do not fit well in standard sizes.

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colas said..

Velocicraptor said..
First step is to find a reputable brand that fits you well.

This the the most important advice, with taking care of your wetsuit (rinse and dry in shade, never hang by the shoulders, ...)

I was buying only Rip Curl wetsuits, as I live 1 mile from the factory, so they adjusted them to my size (cutting arms and legs, moving the knee patches) for free. But not anymore, as they do not make chest zips models anymore in France, and their new no-zip cut does not fit me (too tight in the shoulders, I ripped my 4/3 apart in 6 months). So I switched to SRFACE, which provide half-sizes (XLS) that fit me better. (I was not aware that NeedEssentials now offers an XLS, they did not when I looked)

Most mainstream brands stopped providing intermediate sizes (such as XLS) progressively in the recent years, I guess for easier stock management. It is a good thing that these new direct orders wetsuit companies appeared to provide more sizing options for us who do not fit well in standard sizes.

Seams on my SRFace are coming apart. 10 months old winter suit used loads and already this UK winter feels less warm than last winter.

Moon Wetsuits. There's an option to pay a small fee to have one made to your measurements. Worth the cost. Handmade in Japan.

I'm very disappointed with suits lately. I bought a Patagonia, was super sealed for the first season, then after the half of the second season seals went very leaky. 10-12 weeks to repair + the time ship and process. So it's fall here, coudn't wait so I bought a xcel and from day one it's leaking in scrotch, left legs and when I fall on my back water penetrate in my neck(6/5 drylock hooded). So....seems like factory are delivering **** lately!

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mcrt said..
I have two.
An O'neill top of the line which i use only for surfing and surffoiling.Flexy,warm and way tougher than RipCurl(flexy but leaky in a month).
I have tried Needessentials,Vissla,Billabong...good but nothing beats the Oneill.

For Wingfoiling i use an RRD i got of Ebay, warm an very tough but i would not surf in it, not flexy enough.

No magic bullets IMHO, for prone paddling i need a flexible (and delicate) suit.
For the Wing a kite or windsurf suit with lots of smooth skin for windchill is fine and will last very long.I am not big so in winter mornings i can use a 2mm XL smooth skin zipper jacket on top.

Yup

Been using 2XU, Axon, O`Neil, Typhoon and some other brands I can't remember.
But my latest purchase last winter was a 6/5 Xcel, this has been hands down the best drysuit I ever owned!

+1 for Excel, have a 5/4 with nearly 8 years, and it's replacement is just amazing. Wetsuits do need care - washing, repairs, care getting in and out, dry out the sun etc etc. Otherwise you will nuke it quickly.

Half of enjoying a session in the winter is being prepared! 5L warm water, bucket, warm robe and a thick changing mat make the process great. Flask too.

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Gorgo said..
I'm also not a fan of layering up wetsuits. It's cumbersome and nowhere near as warm as a decent wetsuit. A 2mm top over a 3mm wetsuit is not as warm as a 5mm or even a 4mm. I do like to wear a thermal layer under a suit for extra warmth. Polypropylene or merino under a wetsuit makes things a fair bit warmer when you're hanging on the beach or standing in the breeze on a foil. Still not as warm as a proper thermally lined suit.

To add to the winter luxury, take a 5ltr container of hot water wrapped in your towel. At the end of the session wash down with hot water and dry off with a warm towel. Dryrobe changing robes are also a wonderful thing when the weather is bad.

About layering.. I've been thinking that rather than buying thicker winter suits I could do something with layering, but you reckon not viable? Was wondering about keeping a thin 1mm "watertight" ie new suit under a thicker 3mm outer suit, and then replacing the 1mm more regularly.

Curious about the under layers, by polyprop do you mean something like brynje thermo? Wondering if that would be any use, but I think designed for something entirely different (sweat evaporation).

Also seems somewhat certain that surf wetsuits have had it wrong:

"Hurley responded positively and built a never before considered wetsuit: 4 millimeters in the legs, 3 millimeters over the lower belly and back, and 2 millimeters in the chest, upper back, and arms. In short, a suit that kept surfers warmer for longer and let them paddle more efficiently throughout the length of their sessions. It seemed like wetsuits were about to be revolutionized.
...
But then things went south. According to Newcomer, the company's marketing department found it tricky to sell the science of the final product"

www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear/water-sports-gear/wetsuit-design-science-newcomer-nessler-marine-x/

I remember wearing an actual wool sweater under my wetsuit in the eighties... fun times.

I have worn for many years a polypropylene shirt under my wetsuit (a thin 1mm polar fleece), as it gave significantly more comfort by feeling dry inside your suit even after a fall. A poor man F-Bomb in a way. Plus it avoided the rash of these early suits.

But I stopped doing it 20 years ago: suits nowadays have internal layers good enough to not need added layers.

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SilverFoilSurfer said..
In case anyone curious about shark stop wetsuits:

What foil are you using in the video?
Interested to hear how it pairs with the FG Armstrong board...

I spent the money and got a custom, 6 years on and probably 300 sessions still going strong, think they deliver worldwide

expensive but worth it in the long run

seventhwave.co.nz