Hi!
I am pissed. One screw hole of my Fuse is fxxxxxx. Axis black advanced. I am mostly on lakes. 1 year old fuse. Everytime I used tefgel and everytime after ocean I washed the system. How could that be? I need a change I guess.
I am heavy and I stress the system. What would be best? Armstrong titan carbon mix, full carbon of north? What do u all think and what are ur experiences? I start to think alu is shxx and not usable as foil material. Thanx for input

How tight do you do the screws up? Overtighten is a big cause of the thread stripping out and that can happen with any thread not just in a alloy fuse. The torx head screws can some times lead people to crank harder than what is really necessary.
Is the hole corroded? Or just stripped?
Replacing a alloy fuse is much cheaper than replacing a carbon one when things go wrong so good and bad on any system really.
If stripped out then drill out and put a hellcoil in and you will be good to go again.

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Driks said..
Hi!
I am pissed. One screw hole of my Fuse is fxxxxxx. Axis black advanced. I am mostly on lakes. 1 year old fuse. Everytime I used tefgel and everytime after ocean I washed the system. How could that be? I need a change I guess.
I am heavy and I stress the system. What would be best? Armstrong titan carbon mix, full carbon of north? What do u all think and what are ur experiences? I start to think alu is shxx and not usable as foil material. Thanx for input

Just fit a helicoil to the damaged screw hole, easy 10 minute job. Alloy threads will strip if over tightened or just through use.
Otherwise choose a brand which offers a monoblock fuselage, eg, the wing and fuselage are one piece. As you said, your heavy so you will place heavy loaded on the fuselage.

Helicoils work better and last longer than tapped aluminum. I had to put one on a custom fuselage I got for the Cedrus mast (the fuselage is not from Project Cedrus). Given that the coils cost almost nothing and the extra work to install one when the fuselage is made is almost zero (you just drill a slightly larger hole and tap it for the coil instead of the bolt and then insert the coil), it would make sense to make them standard. I think the increased reliability & reduction in warranty cases would easily justify it.

I don't know if it was corroded at all. I never used electric screwdriver and thightened them with hand. In Germany we say "handfest". I saw the option with helicoil but how is it with A2 not A4 in Water and ocean? The A4 version is pretty expensive also the tools. I can nearly buy a new fuse for that. Maybe the screw went in a bit diagonally. But there was not much Resistance. The Thread directly felt apart. That's why I finally think it was corroded.

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Driks said..
I don't know if it was corroded at all. I never used electric screwdriver and thightened them with hand. In Germany we say "handfest". I saw the option with helicoil but how is it with A2 not A4 in Water and ocean? The A4 version is pretty expensive also the tools. I can nearly buy a new fuse for that. Maybe the screw went in a bit diagonally. But there was not much Resistance. The Thread directly felt apart. That's why I finally think it was corroded.

Project Cedrus ships with A2 bolts, so they seem to think that it's good enough for wingfoiling. The sea water here is "mixed" (low salt content, but it's still salty) and the bolts & the one (cheap) helicoil I installed in 2022 have been fine. The helicoil kits come with a lot of inserts, so while you may think you're paying for just one (right now), you'll be prepared to do another repair if you need it (or help a friend).

Have been using foils since 2017, and about 100 sessions a year in salt water. Although the level of salt in the sea here in Norway is less than some other places. First windfoil, and then wingfoil.
Now I have the front wings and fuse in one monoblock of carbon, and I really like how few screws is needed to assemble the foil.
3 m6 bolts mast/fuse, and 2 m6 bolts to connect the rear part of the fuse with the back wing. Front and rear part I usually leave assembled.

But I have never damaged a thread, even when I have had alu fuselages.

I take most things apart after each session, especially if there is alu involved. But leave it in the van, without rinsing it. Never use tef gel or other sticky/greasy stuff. Personally, I would only use something like that if I should leave it assembled for a long time. I don't like sticky stuff on the bolts, as it can easily become a mess, and things you dont want on the bolts can stick to it.

On alu fuselages I used to put a little WD40 a few times a year down the screw holes, to clean them up. WD40 isn't really a lubricator, but I have good experience using it.

I always tighten up things by hand. And I use Wera stainless steel tools, so I don't get any rust on anything. But that does of course not affect the threads.

WD = Water Displacement. Like you said, not a lubricant, but it does fight corrosion. If the aluminum has become porous, I image the WD40 would fill the gaps and displace the water.

I leave a two screws (mast to base) attached and only check them a few times per year, but I apply teflon tape on them. All the others are completely disassembled after each session and get a bit of tefgel every now and then.

The thread that I damaged was either cross-threaded due to poor alignment or over-tightened or the original thread could have been badly tapped.It was the front screw of the stabilizer and the underlying reason forpoormisalignment was that the shape of the fuselage didn't match the curve of the stabilizer, so it was like on a "rocking chair". I designed & 3D-printed shims to fix the issue and replaced the damaged thread. The shims have a dip in the middle (curved surface), so I even made a 0? one (but I mostly use -0.5?).

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Driks said..
I don't know if it was corroded at all. I never used electric screwdriver and thightened them with hand. In Germany we say "handfest".

Screw hole in the fuse - front wing or stabilizer? M6 or M8? These are short screws, so it's easy to over-tighten them. Also depends on the tools. The Axis screws sets come with different tools. The tools that come with the stainless screws are quite long - about 50% longer than the tools that come with the titanium screws. Even with the shorter tools, I never tighten them as hard as possible. With the longer tools, it would be quite easy to over-tighten them to the point of wrecking the threads. Also, you have so much leverage that it would be easy to force the bolts in if the threads are not aligned properly. That has to happen just once.

It was one of the front wing M6 screws. Fair enough I used a longer tool yes. One of the guys at the beach scared me.... I ll loose my foil otherwise. Idk. I am in contact with the dealer yet. He said they never had this with axis and maybe I am lucky and get an new one. Fingers crossed. A4 helicoils for 80 bugz with tools but u guys saying A2 is ok!?

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Driks said..
It was one of the front wing M6 screws. Fair enough I used a longer tool yes. One of the guys at the beach scared me.... I ll loose my foil otherwise. Idk. I am in contact with the dealer yet. He said they never had this with axis and maybe I am lucky and get a 2new one. Fingers crossed. A4 helicoils for 80 bugz with tools but u guys saying A2 is ok!?

A2 is fine, just install the helicoil with a bit of grease of tefgel so there is corrosion prevention between the allow and the stainless. Same on the screws when installing the stab. A2 isn't as good as A4, but a lot better that alloy and the whole fuselage is made of alloy. I use A2 screws all the time, none have any corrosion on them at all.

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Driks said..
It was one of the front wing M6 screws. Fair enough I used a longer tool yes. One of the guys at the beach scared me.... I ll loose my foil otherwise.

I don't think you need a lot of force to over-tighten the short M6 screws. They really don't need a lot of torque - it's more of a "two fingers in the middle of the wrench" thing. I've never had any screws on the front wing come loose even a tiny bit.

The Axis front wing mount seems properly engineered to me - that is, over-engineered. I highly doubt that you'd loose the front wing even if you would not use the M6 screws at all (not that I think that's a good idea to try). Quite a contrast to another brand that used to be very popular, but apparently liked "marginal engineering", which resulted in lots of broken fuses, and plenty of problems with screws coming loose or breaking.

Hi Driks,
Sorry to hear about the thread problem. I've been using Axis gear for 5+ years now. Minimal issues. I do have a thread that is a little tricky to engage on one of my fuses, and I take a little bit more time to ensure it is properly located before initiating the tightening process - to prevent cross threading. I have had a number of singular screws loosen a bit and end up less than finger tight at the end of a session. This has not affected performance of the foil. I also use tefgel and even if a screw loosens, it won't drop out as the tefgel is so sticky.

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Driks said..
Hi!
I am pissed. One screw hole of my Fuse is fxxxxxx. Axis black advanced. I am mostly on lakes. 1 year old fuse. Everytime I used tefgel and everytime after ocean I washed the system. How could that be? I need a change I guess.
I am heavy and I stress the system. What would be best? Armstrong titan carbon mix, full carbon of north? What do u all think and what are ur experiences? I start to think alu is shxx and not usable as foil material. Thanx for input

Alum alloys can vary greatly. 6063 vs 6063-T6 vs 7075. The strength nearly doubles for each step right in that list. Also any metal is dramatically stronger when the base material is forged with the grain aligned in the best direction (eg. along the fuselage).

How often did you replace your bolts? They are consumable items. It does not matter what they look like, since they can stretch, and once this happens the thread does not evenly distribute the load, so things then wear out quite quickly from there, until failure.

Any SS helicoils will work fine. Just ensure they are long enough. eg. M6 D2.5 will result in 15mm of thread after installing. Then use grease lube on new bolts in the helicoils.

I install the helicoils using red loctite, as the corrosion barrier and also to lock the insert in place. Been doing this for many years and it seems to work great. Just tap a clean thread (full cut and air blow clean) and install quickly, before it sets on you.

To answer your original question, if you want to go fast and fuselage cross-sectional size is an issue, then I guess that titanium (eg. Levitaz) is the best material for the fuselage. That is, for strength vs volume (frontal area). No data to back my claim, just a hunch based on my mechanical intuition. Although some brands like MikesLab have shown how skinny a carbon fuselage can be made and be stiff and strong enough.

Just fix it with a helicoil. I know a few guys here that have fixed them with helicoils and they are just as reliable as new, if not better.

Hi!
Axis replaced the fuse finally which is great. At least it was just an year old, in salty water just for few sessions and I never used electric tools. It still looked pretty new and I had to send pics. I think that was why they replaced it. Also my dealer said he never had this problem ever before. I saw tighting torque somewhere so the used screw power is an topic here. I will keep attention from now on. "Handfest" (finger tight) not "hulk tight". At least my idea was to do it exactly like u said @ Emmet using red loctite. U really think we should replace the bolts?
Still north fuse looks interesting. Someone said the 82 carbon mast with carbon fuse weighs 2.2 kg... Wtf. My axis power carbon with advanced crazy 3.1! So lighter setup and no Corrosion. But changing system hurts.

BTW this konrad foil stuff looks good. They use an sacrificial anode. Also fuse is half carbon. Interesting

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Driks said..
Hi!
Axis replaced the fuse finally which is great. At least it was just an year old, in salty water just for few sessions and I never used electric tools. It still looked pretty new and I had to send pics. I think that was why they replaced it. Also my dealer said he never had this problem ever before. I saw tighting torque somewhere so the used screw power is an topic here. I will keep attention from now on. "Handfest" (finger tight) not "hulk tight". At least my idea was to do it exactly like u said @ Emmet using red loctite. U really think we should replace the bolts?
Still north fuse looks interesting. Someone said the 82 carbon mast with carbon fuse weighs 2.2 kg... Wtf. My axis power carbon with advanced crazy 3.1! So lighter setup and no Corrosion. But changing system hurts.

I would not put to much into weight of carbon foils. If anything, i would go for the most heavy. At least kg/cm3.

It should be as thin and slim as possible, and as heavy as possible. High modulus carbon is heavier than "normal" carbon. And a solid carbon mast, is heavier than a foam core. But for sure stiffer.

A solid carbon wing is also a lot more heavy than one with a foam core.

Having a stiff and rigid foil gives more benefits than having a super light foil in my opinion.

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Driks said..
U really think we should replace the bolts?

Definitely yes. In M6 size, they are consumable items. SS fatigues fast enough. A pack of 20 should cost you about $5. When you see some wear or a necked head, then replace the whole set.

Well mostly it's not easy to get them as A4....!

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Driks said..
Well mostly it's not easy to get them as A4....!

No need, A2 works just fine, I use A2 and never had any corrosion on my hardware.


A4 stainless is often used in marine or chemical environments as it has greater corrosion resistance than A2. The chemical composition of both A2 and A4 stainless steel are almost identical with the most notable differences being the higher nickel content and the addition of Molybdenum in A4.