Any tips on how to make this move without the wing flipping over? I've made it a couple of times and I'm not sure what I did differently, but most of the time the wing flips while I'm holding the leading edge handle. Anyone else have this issue?

I'm interested to hear how folks deal with the leash. I'm using the wrist leash and have considered going to the waist leash.

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gneve said..
I'm interested to hear how folks deal with the leash. I'm using the wrist leash and have considered going to the waist leash.

I'll do my best to explain it.
I am riding goofy toeside (right foot forward). I usually do this after surfing a wave, so I am holding the wing from the leading edge handle with my right hand..
As soon as I start going into the tack, I switch hand on the leading edge handle, so now I am holding it with my back hand (left hand). I then commit into the tack and pass the leash (which is tied to my right hand wrist) over my head. As soon as I am facing the new direction, I grab the front handle (not the leading edge one) with the right hand and the rear with the left. Now I am riding goofy heelside.
I am not sure I can explain it with words....I have a few videos but I can't post them here...

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Velocicraptor said..
Any tips on how to make this move without the wing flipping over? I've made it a couple of times and I'm not sure what I did differently, but most of the time the wing flips while I'm holding the leading edge handle. Anyone else have this issue?

It's easier for the first tries to hold it from your leash very close to the leading edge and having it on top of your head while tacking.
It's not behind the back, but it's easy and it can help you figuring out the timing. This way you don't have the issue of passing the leash.

I actually have no issue with the leash - I use a waist leash and its long enough to wrap me. The over the head pass seems basically the same as a normal tack, which I don't have any issues with.

Issue is that the wing often flips over when its behind my back. I can sometimes pin it down with my free hand, but that isn't very smooth and prevents me from good timing when I grab the front strut handle, which leads to a touchdown. I feel like the flip has something to do with the timing of when Im going to the luff handle (too early maybe?), but I can't really figure out whats going on since there is so much happening in such a short amount of time (and its behind my back).

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Velocicraptor said..
I actually have no issue with the leash - I use a waist leash and its long enough to wrap me. The over the head pass seems basically the same as a normal tack, which I don't have any issues with.

Issue is that the wing often flips over when its behind my back. I can sometimes pin it down with my free hand, but that isn't very smooth and prevents me from good timing when I grab the front strut handle, which leads to a touchdown. I feel like the flip has something to do with the timing of when Im going to the luff handle (too early maybe?), but I can't really figure out whats going on since there is so much happening in such a short amount of time (and its behind my back).

Yes, the overhead is like a normal tack, but holding it form the leash might help you get the mechanics of catching back the handles. Maybe your wing is touching the water in the middle of the tack. Try to hold it higher when changing from leading edge handle to the normal ones.

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Velocicraptor said..
I actually have no issue with the leash - I use a waist leash and its long enough to wrap me. The over the head pass seems basically the same as a normal tack, which I don't have any issues with.

Issue is that the wing often flips over when it's behind my back. I can sometimes pin it down with my free hand, but that isn't very smooth and prevents me from good timing when I grab the front strut handle, which leads to a touchdown. I feel like the flip has something to do with the timing of when Im going to the luff handle (too early maybe?), but I can't really figure out whats going on since there is so much happening in such a short amount of time (and its behind my back).

Yep, sounds like going to the luff handle too early (before you've really turned upwind). Been there done that. When you're first learning it's just like you said, "a lot going on and not a lot of time to work with". For my old guy klutzy self (64 at the time) it definitely helped to practice this on dry land a lot. Need to be reasonably quick (unless you're just pumping yourself through which I don't) AND you need to help "roll' the wing over to the new tack as you're passing it around. It's definitely a full commit to both the pass and the upwind carve. I'll usually start the the upwind carve and release the wing at the same time so it's directly behind me when I'm pointed straight upwind. If you're in perfect conditions with a really glidey foil you'll have more time to work with. The pro level riders seem like they have all day to complete the move,..not me.

This was my first session (almost 1 1/2 years ago) working on behind-the-back tacks reasonably powered on my original 4m Slick in the first part of the video. I do the pre-wrap waist leash routine.

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This was on a 6m original Slick and a really big light wind foil (Gong Veloce XXL) in lighter wind right at the beginning of the video, and then at 2:15 in on my 5m Slick and smaller foil. You can ignore all the rest. Also in that 1 1/2 year ago time frame.

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Just wait till you get to handle pass jibes

I didn't realise that you had to go into it toeside. Thanks guys. I've been trying behind the back tacks heelside and I can't get the wing powered up fast enough on the new side to keep foiling. Is anyone doing behind the back tacks heelside?

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Nikita said..
I didn't realise that you had to go into it toeside. Thanks guys. I've been trying behind the back tacks heelside and I can't get the wing powered up fast enough on the new side to keep foiling. Is anyone doing behind the back tacks heelside?

You can definitely go into it starting from heelside as well, but starting from toeside is much easier to learn first. Pretty much the same as regular tacking where it's always easier to learn going from toeside first. I've only tried a few from heelside but they are a lot more stressful on my defective left shoulder so I mostly avoid working on them. Old guy compromises

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Nikita said..
I didn't realise that you had to go into it toeside. Thanks guys. I've been trying behind the back tacks heelside and I can't get the wing powered up fast enough on the new side to keep foiling. Is anyone doing behind the back tacks heelside?

Ever since you asked about this I couldn't get it out of my head, so as soon as my shoulder condition improved it was time to revisit. After a couple of sessions worth of attempts I finally got some done on foil. Not very polished yet but happy for the first attempts. One thing that really helps this slow/fumbly old timer is using a larger (performance) foil in slightly lighter winds for learning new moves. So basically a bit larger than I would normally use for stuff I already know in the same wind conditions. I did the same thing with most of the other moves I've learned (my first Around-the-World was on a huge V1 Veloce XXL and now I do them on a V2 Veloce L)


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Nice! Since I posted this I've gotten the toeside behind the back tack pretty well dialed. I think the trick was just to cut harder into the wind before initiating the handoff. A well timed pump on the foil can do a lot to rescue a badly botched one as well.

Now youve inspired me to get out there and start working on the heelside! Nicely done.

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Dspace said..

Nikita said..
I didn't realise that you had to go into it toeside. Thanks guys. I've been trying behind the back tacks heelside and I can't get the wing powered up fast enough on the new side to keep foiling. Is anyone doing behind the back tacks heelside?

Ever since you asked about this I couldn't get it out of my head, so as soon as my shoulder condition improved it was time to revisit. After a couple of sessions worth of attempts I finally got some done on foil. Not very polished yet but happy for the first attempts. One thing that really helps this slow/fumbly old timer is using a larger (performance) foil in slightly lighter winds for learning new moves. So basically a bit larger than I would normally use for stuff I already know in the same wind conditions. I did the same thing with most of the other moves I've learned (my first Around-the-World was on a huge V1 Veloce XXL and now I do them on a V2 Veloce L)

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Nice one!

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Velocicraptor said..
Nice! Since I posted this I've gotten the toeside behind the back tack pretty well dialed. I think the trick was just to cut harder into the wind before initiating the handoff. A well timed pump on the foil can do a lot to rescue a badly botched one as well.

Now youve inspired me to get out there and start working on the heelside! Nicely done.

I'm actually not that good at pumping while I'm trying to release and regrab quickly all while maintaining a smooth carve. Too many things to concentrate on at once. Something I need to work on.

Yeah when you mention cutting harder into the wind it always reminds me how quickly the wind will kill your speed when trying to glide through an upwind maneuver. A foil can have great glide but good old windage will get you every time.

A not-too-difficult follow on move for your toe side behind-the-back tack is just starting with a well powered jibe and continuing the carve going to a behind the back handle pass to make it a 360 (even funner)... Now I want to try one starting from a Heineken jibe. Endless variations!