I know this has been covered in a previous topic where the ART 1099 was being reviewed, but I wanted to get a clearer picture or comparison of the two.

I am considering either the 1099 ART or the 980 HPS.

Me....ordinary winger at 100kg, still learning and now getting into waves with the addition of also doing downwinders. The waves...waist to shoulder (maybe).

What would be one preference over the other? Keen to hear as that review of the ART 1099 got me all excited but I need to settle a little and also consider the HPS range.

Will probably match it with the 400ha stab.

Cheers

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shi thouse said..
...100kg, still learning ..

That right there is a red flag for the ART. Master the HPS before moving onto ARTs

Not to hijack the thread but I am also weighing ART vs. HPS. I am 70kg running the BSC890 for most days and the BSC1060 for the borderline/light days. I would consider myself an intermediate with jibes nailed, toe to heel foiling tacks at ~80% and progressing my jumps little by little.While I really like the 890 for the ease of use and ability to turn, I am after something faster which has me weighing the 899 and either the 830 or 880. This would be my go to foil for 15+ somewhat smooth to semi-choppy conditions. I currently ride the Fanatic 95L but will be moving down to a 75L Axis Froth here shortly. Mainly riding my 6m Strike CWC as it seems to have a huge range but will be getting a 4m in the coming months.
Thanks in advance.

I had a 3.5 aspect ratio wing, 2100cm to learn on. I was jibing 60% of the time.I got the hps 980 7.9AR (I think). It was like driving a Ferrari from a mini van. It took quite a while to get back to my same level on that new foil especially turning and transitions as well as the issue of starting a HA foil. I got there but it took a half dozen sessions.
I wanted a faster wing so I got the art999 the day it came out, 10AR. I figured this would be my small wing. It was harder to start a bit, but required very little difference in jibing and tacking and turning. Glide was noticeably better, transitions seemed a bit easier. It ended up being my large wing, as I sold the 980 since the 999 covered enough range for me.
So I say go for the ART of you are really thinking about it. That said the hps line is great and may be the sensible AR where most wings end up in a few years, but who knows?!

Currently I ride the 899 and a 640 from another brand. I'm thinking I went too small and will probably get the 1099 for marginal days. 77kgs.

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JohnnyTsunami said..
I had a 3.5 aspect ratio wing, 2100cm to learn on. I was jibing 60% of the time.I got the hps 980 7.9AR (I think). It was like driving a Ferrari from a mini van. It took quite a while to get back to my same level on that new foil especially turning and transitions as well as the issue of starting a HA foil. I got there but it took a half dozen sessions.
I wanted a faster wing so I got the art999 the day it came out, 10AR. I figured this would be my small wing. It was harder to start a bit, but required very little difference in jibing and tacking and turning. Glide was noticeably better, transitions seemed a bit easier. It ended up being my large wing, as I sold the 980 since the 999 covered enough range for me.
So I say go for the ART of you are really thinking about it. That said the hps line is great and may be the sensible AR where most wings end up in a few years, but who knows?!

Currently I ride the 899 and a 640 from another brand. I'm thinking I went too small and will probably get the 1099 for marginal days. 77kgs.

Thanks for the feedback. Are you saying that the 899 or 999 is too small for marginal days?

For me the 899 is too small for light days and the 999 would work but just barely as a largest foil for me. I would pump and not get up and KNOW I could get up on other foils I had previously. That said the difference is only a couple of knots and seconds of puffs. With the 999 the trade off of not having a larger foil and the associated expense was juuust worth it, but with the 899 it's too small as my largest foil to do light wind sessions. It would be different if I foiled places with 15+ knots every time I went out.

Ive been getting better at NOT going out when it's marginal, so it's all up to your style and conditions and how many light wind sessions you want.
I think your pumping ability comes into play majorly as well. If you can do violent full body pumps to get up that will get you a few more knots of low end.

Gneve,
I'm 80kg and ride 890/880/810 with 390 gap and 400P.
I have 6/5/3.5/2.5.
My 890 for light wind, 880 for when it's solid wind, 810 for best wind/chop performance.

The 390 gap is good for light wind, I use the 400P mostly. I've just got a 700hps but yet to use and I'll be getting a 350P.

The 880 is great but the 810 is a great partner for your 890.

Mike

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shi thouse said..
I know this has been covered in a previous topic where the ART 1099 was being reviewed, but I wanted to get a clearer picture or comparison of the two.

I am considering either the 1099 ART or the 980 HPS.

Me....ordinary winger at 100kg, still learning and now getting into waves with the addition of also doing downwinders. The waves...waist to shoulder (maybe).

What would be one preference over the other? Keen to hear as that review of the ART 1099 got me all excited but I need to settle a little and also consider the HPS range.

Will probably match it with the 400ha stab.

Cheers

You're not ready for ART. Start with BSC if you're still learning and using waves.

Sorry this doesn't answer your initial question, but in terms of whether you are ready for the ART ....
You are still learning? Can you gybe? Can you ride toeside? Can you tack?
I can gybe confidently in flat water both sides. Ride toeside both ways. Can't tack. Very much an intermediate at best.
Have been riding various red axis gear for nearly a year. Got a black short fuse with an ART 999 and it's challenging but a real hoot - definitely doable. If you want to make life easier on the ART, consider getting a longer fuse. You will lose manouverability and pumpability, but it'll be a more stable platform. Pro's and cons. I found the ART gear steps you back in terms of your ability to make gybes and ride toeside, but it's fast and really slippery.
Or (depending on your keeness and skill level) wait as suggested above, spend more time improving so later on you can get a short black fuse and not end up with 2 fuses?

Just to fill a few more details. Currently riding the red series (short fuse) with a 440 rear and the older 1000ha front wing. I've been winging for near on 10 months, riding toe side, gybing, tacking and riding waves. Ultimately I am looking at going the next step and getting onto the black series gear as I am chasing more speed and glide. I also kite foil on my red series gear with the same rear wing and using a 660 front.

I have both the 980 and 1099. I have ridden the 980 a lot and only a few rides on the 1099. I find the 980 is a very easy foil and I certainly get going on it sooner than the 1099 in light wind (10 -12knots) , but this may just be my technique. Once up the 1099 has a lot of glide and is user friendly too. I feel that it is best suited to light air. I am hoping this will be a good downwind foil but still early days.

My all round foil currently is the 880 and I think it is worth demoing this, and considering over the 980. In HPS the 830 and 880 seem to be the pick being faster and more dynamic. The 899 is in this mix too and can also be considered.

I dont have the ultra short fuse but from comments I have seen these work better with all the ARTs and is on the to buy list.

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shi thouse said..
Just to fill a few more details. Currently riding the red series (short fuse) with a 440 rear and the older 1000ha front wing. I've been winging for near on 10 months, riding toe side, gybing, tacking and riding waves. Ultimately I am looking at going the next step and getting onto the black series gear as I am chasing more speed and glide. I also kite foil on my red series gear with the same rear wing and using a 660 front.

If you can ride the old 1000 front wing at 100kg and you're good, then ART1099 should be good.

At 100 kgs get the 1050 HPS at your stage great big guy wing gets up on foil easier that 1099 in lighter winds.I need a bit more juice for 1099 to kick in,1050 gets going at a respectable clip not quite as fast and glidy as 1099.At 100kgs learning edge to 1050

I'm 90kg, been winging for 10 months with a windsurf and foiling background. I came from slingshot i76 and i84, moved to axis in the last month. I demoed the HPS 980 and ART 999 both with the 82cm mast, short fuse (699cm) and 375p stab, I have a 4.8 and 3.8m PPC wings, 100L smik.

I found both wings user friendly with different characteristics (of course). I could get the 980 going on about 13-14 knots, 999 about 15 knots.
The 980 had better low stall speed than the 999. 999 had much better top end speed and glided much better (while the speed was kept. Both wings pump easy if you keep above their stall
speed. I found the 980 carve only slightly better, the 999 was a little more stiff.
I found the 980 suited what I wanted better, I want to downwind and surf, the 980 would be more user friendly for this. Part of me thinks I could have gone the 999 with the extra short fuse but I always have a lot of fun on then 980, so I'm happy with my choice.
Hope this helps

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shi thouse said..
Just to fill a few more details. Currently riding the red series (short fuse) with a 440 rear and the older 1000ha front wing. I've been winging for near on 10 months, riding toe side, gybing, tacking and riding waves. Ultimately I am looking at going the next step and getting onto the black series gear as I am chasing more speed and glide. I also kite foil on my red series gear with the same rear wing and using a 660 front.

Borrow/demo my 980 and 1099 mate and try both

The 980 is a more versatile and user friendly wing. The 1099 is a niche wing designed for glide. They are both great ones to have but completely different animals. I agree with pitbulldoug that the 1050 is a better bet than either of those. In light wind and at your stage in winging, the 1099 and 980 will be quite frustrating to get out of the water and going. The 1050 is the session saver. I have been winging since the beginning and I have had a handful of light sessions on the 980 where I couldn't get it up and went in and switched to the 1050 and was up immediately. I would say go with the 1050 and then work toward shorter fuses until you get to the US or CS and get a nice quiver of prog tails to pair. You will progress much faster like this rather than getting these harder wings.

Thanks for all of the information and advice guys! Really appreciate it.

Was saying to Eppo, that going down the deep foiling rabbit hole is bloody confusing. I reckon I still have PTSD from my old windsurfing days of having specific fins, boards and sails just to suit certain conditons. Transitioning to kiting was a breath of fresh air in that I could get by with one board and a couple of kites for most conditions. Foiling on the other hand feels like I am returning to my old windsurfing roots by having one wing to suit certain conditons and a then mixing and matching rear stabs and fusealges.

To be honest, its not what I'm into the sport for and I want to keep it as simple as possible.

My old Axis 1000ha wing has been awesome, and matched to the 440 stab and small fuse it has pretty much done all that I have required so far. All I have done is change the front wing to the 680 if I was kiting. Brilliant!

Unfortunately I am now seeking higher performance with more speed and glide and this has made it all the more challenging to match gear.

I feel as though I will keep away from the ART foil and go the HPS....now it is down to the 980 or the 1050....or both...but I don't want small increments in change.

Will keep you all posted!

Cheers.

I'm 90kg and have the HPS980, 1050 and ART899, 999 and 1099 as well.All really great in there own way, however for you at 100kg I think 1050 would be my call, matched with a 400 or 460ha for speed, however I really think the 400p is a great choice of rears with the 1050 as well, heaps looser.You would also be amazed what a difference one of those tails would make on your 1000.

Or the 980.

I would recommend the xx99 series if speed and glide is your main focus.
Downwind they are fast as but for wave riding and around riding in choppy water etc I prefer the HPS wings, of course that is just my opinion.

i.e. If I am just out for a cruisey fun downwinder and maybe get a few waves along the way I usually take one of the HPS wings.
If I am trying to get to the end fast I use the ART wings.

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To be honest, its not what I'm into the sport for and I want to keep it as simple as possible.

when I started to wing I was conned into thinking one wing/foil good to go

now I have realised you need multiple wings, maxed out bags out your wing. Couple of foils and poss couple of boards to have it all covered.
kiting was great 1 kite 2 boards covered 80% for me.
yes it's a retrospective step for all the gear you need. I love to keep it simple and affordable.

I'm at the other end of the weight spectrum, 63kg. Have 999 and HPS 830, love them both in different conditions but if push came to shove I think the 830 would be my one foil solution. Only have the 375P tail so at least that's simple!
Find the 999 far more affected by varying wind and water state, not always in a predictable way. Can be brilliant one session and strangely difficult to get on with in another. Think it's so affected by current and seemingly how much wave energy there is below tue surface, guess being light it's accentuated. The 830 fees so dependable and consistent in comparison. But the glide, the glide and efficiency of the 999, astonishing. Of course dreaming about getting HPS 700, 899...etc etc

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rgmacca said..

To be honest, its not what I'm into the sport for and I want to keep it as simple as possible.

when I started to wing I was conned into thinking one wing/foil good to go

now I have realised you need multiple wings, maxed out bags out your wing. Couple of foils and poss couple of boards to have it all covered.
kiting was great 1 kite 2 boards covered 80% for me.
yes it's a retrospective step for all the gear you need. I love to keep it simple and affordable.

I think you can buy as much gear as you want..
Personally i can wing every day of the week if i want - 12 to 20 knots on my slick 4.5 , 75 litre board and hps 930

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geared4knots said..

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rgmacca said..

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To be honest, its not what I'm into the sport for and I want to keep it as simple as possible.

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when I started to wing I was conned into thinking one wing/foil good to go ?

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now I have realised you need multiple wings, maxed out bags out your wing. Couple of foils and poss couple of boards to have it all covered.

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kiting was great 1 kite 2 boards covered 80% for me.

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yes it's a retrospective step for all the gear you need. I love to keep it simple and affordable.

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I think you can buy as much gear as you want..

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Personally i can wing every day of the week if i want - 12 to 20 knots on my slick 4.5 , 75 litre board and hps 930

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Agree about the 930 HPS. If I was to only have one foil wing this would be it with 350p stab. But need the 740 BCS for kite which is perfect for wingfoiling in 15kn plus.

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Bought the 1099, week later sold my 1050 HPS.

Interesting is that I also went from riding the short fuse to the crazy short when I first rode the 1099, expected it to be a massive adjustment but got it up first pump of the wing. Never looked back after that.

So much better in every aspect other than the 1050 gets up onto foil earlier and in a tad less wind. Pumps and glides so much better than the 1050

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broVan said..
The 980 is a more versatile and user friendly wing. The 1099 is a niche wing designed for glide. They are both great ones to have but completely different animals. I agree with pitbulldoug that the 1050 is a better bet than either of those. In light wind and at your stage in winging, the 1099 and 980 will be quite frustrating to get out of the water and going. The 1050 is the session saver. I have been winging since the beginning and I have had a handful of light sessions on the 980 where I couldn't get it up and went in and switched to the 1050 and was up immediately. I would say go with the 1050 and then work toward shorter fuses until you get to the US or CS and get a nice quiver of prog tails to pair. You will progress much faster like this rather than getting these harder wings.

Spot on.

Agree, HPS930 is great all around wing.

Not the absolute best for anything but NEARLY the best for everything (prone, wing, kite).

Yeah agree that's the thing about the HPS range overall they do everything very well , where the ART's are better in some areas but overall just not as good to use .James Casey is working on this right now , I suspect we'll see some new wings soon between the the HPS & ART's . Just my crystal ball ...

I'm hoping armie is working on the very same thing.