I think these foils deserve a thread.....


Picked up my 899 yesterday and here she is meeting her sister 880..
I wasn't 100% convinced by the 999 when i tried it but retrospectively there were things i really did like (its glide and ability to handle speed without over lifting) . My 67kg's was probably a little light..

Adrian Roper advised that i needed a shorter fuze and progressive tail to loosen it up so I've picked up an ultrashort and 400/65..

I'm pretty excited to try it.. It really is a thing of beauty and quite unlike anything I've seen before. Have a hand injury at present but aim to be back in water this weekend ..

I also handled a 799.. Amazing - Will try and snag a go on one too asap..

Anyone else??!

I've locked my credit card away for 2021, although I did get a 375 progressive tail for my 999. Hopefully that will loosen it up over the 420. Looking forward to review of these vs 999.

I'm back after 2 weeks in the Canaries of using nothing but my 899 with ultrashort fuse and 400 progressive tail, followed by 3 weeks of surfing, wave riding and downwinding it in Ireland.

I gotta say that in the short period windswell of Tenerife with strong 2-3.1m (Mantis) wing weather it goes incredibly well.. Especially for downwinding in waisthigh + wind waves. I just couldn't fault it except maybe that i had to adjust my pumping technique a little to be more back foot biased and light footed in general.. It handled as much speed as i could generate and also went so slow I could almost stop, before being picked up by a following swell.. I thought I'd found my 1 foil for all solution....

Then I got back to Ireland and went winging in 18 second overhead waves with a 4m.. I'm not sure what changed really but i couldn't get it to do what my 880HPS or 740 BSC would do in similar conditions. I was struggling to pump or keep up with the ground swell.. and when i kicked off a wave it would come up towards my face (taco?) .. Ended up stabbing my wing and going home with tail between my legs..

Next day was glassy so i paddled out on it.. Easy take off, really fast and carvey but same taco issue kicking out of the wave at the high speed needed to keep the pump going.. I've since learned this could be the 19mm mast acting like a foil .. but it was unnerving and needed me to reassess my exit strategy.. Never had these issues with an 880 HPS or 890 BSC.. Think it worked better going into the flats and coming back at the wave to exit..

Few days later our downwinder track switched on and we did a few hectic runs on 2m wings in 40knots.. Back to joy with 100% satisfaction.. Just couldn't do anything wrong.. So good..

So I'm pretty sold on it.. I've got to do some glassing on my 880's LE before I can go back and compare .. I'm pretty sure my 880 would've handled everything in the last 6 weeks just as well except some of the really windy downwinding days. 880 would probably have pumped a little better but breached earlier.. I feel like the improvements in top end speed and bottom end stall speed are worth learning the subtleties of the 899 for, in a similar way it was worth stepping off a BSC890 onto a HPS 880..

I don't think I'll ever be able to dock start an 899 whilst it think i'd manage it on an 880 with a little more practice.. So all in all i think if i had to buy 1 wing that does all from AXIS i'm still on the 880 train, but I do keep finding myself choosing the 899 over everything else most of the time, just in an attempt to get good enough to use it to its full potential.. I definitely prefer both 899 and 880 over the 999 but being sub 70 kg inc 6mm rubber thats not a surprise..

I hope some 1st hand real world info is useful.. FYI - I'm 45, 67kg, been on foils for 1 year + 1 week total.. frothing..

Solid review and nice to see folks in the under 70k club as well. I'm pressure I've been riding wings that are far too big for me. Cool to hear about these smaller sizes.

Great review of the 899! Thank you for helping me to save a little money and stick with my 880 for a few more months! If I didn't already own it I'd be all over the ART but I guess I'll spend my cash on an alula wing instead for now.. Lol

Smeee...really interesting feedback. Im about to buy a HPS and unclear what model / size. Im 90kg, 50 yr old, intermediate level (Wales)...use the 910png a lot

i tried the 930 HPS yesterday in flat and choppy conditions with a 4m...but not sure if its too small for using with a 5 or 6m that i use 75% of the time.

Any guidance?

Sorry to hijack
Northy

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northy1 said..
Smeee...really interesting feedback. Im about to buy a HPS and unclear what model / size. Im 90kg, 50 yr old, intermediate level (Wales)...use the 910png a lot

i tried the 930 HPS yesterday in flat and choppy conditions with a 4m...but not sure if its too small for using with a 5 or 6m that i use 75% of the time.

Any guidance?

Sorry to hijack
Northy

Gotta get power from somewhere. If you felt underpowered on a 930, use a bigger sail. You could try an 899 or 999, with the later probably being an easy option for you. Apparently guys are getting up to 26knots on the 999, so give it a go?

For anyone new to fast foils, I think going HPS first is the "safe" first step toward adapting to fast surfing or winging. Second step is going ART.

My wife moved from the 880 to 899 for winging. She uses the 350 tail at 53kg. I use the 375 tail with the 899 at 85 kg.

Thanks all

Any thoughts on the wind range for the ART 999 vs HPS 980, 930, 880 for 90kg intermediate using a 6m and 4m - looking to get more control in swell and waves over my 910png (not downwinding - just riding)
Would this be about right?
980 10-18kt
930 - 14-22kt
880 16-24kt
But where would the 999 fit in?

i tried a 930 last week on short fuse and my 420 and felt almost immediately at home (ie can gybe etc) but was not sure of the approproate wind range as it was 10 mins in very very flukey winds with a friends 4m (mine in repair shop)

I have a 1150 for the Summer also so essentially looking at complementing this.

Select to expand quote

northy1 said..
Smeee...really interesting feedback. Im about to buy a HPS and unclear what model / size. Im 90kg, 50 yr old, intermediate level (Wales)...use the 910png a lot

i tried the 930 HPS yesterday in flat and choppy conditions with a 4m...but not sure if its too small for using with a 5 or 6m that i use 75% of the time.

Any guidance?

Sorry to hijack
Northy

Hi Northy..

No worries jumping on this thread..

Like DWF says, i think going PNG - HPS - ART is probably a good way to go.. My wife recently just jumped from 890 BSC to 880 HPS and she experiences similar differences to those I'm experiencing going from 880 HPS to 899 ART.. Mostly that the takeoff needs more planing speed and much subtler foot work (I.e planing up onto foil with wing power more than pumping onto foil with foot power) .. I don't think she would like the 899 at all yet..

The extra comparable width and straighter LE of the ART's need a shorter fuse to loosen them up (IMHO) which then creates potential issues with pitch stability especially with the increased top end speed..

Most of the 90KG guys around here were using 980 HPS in 5m weather and lighter and 880 HPS in windier weather last year. I'm sure the 930 would've been perfect for them last year..

They've moved onto 999's now most of the time but are also experimenting with 899 and even 799 for strong wind winging with good results. I'll say tho that they are experienced guys 2+ years of nonstop winging.. well able to consistently gybe and tack at each end and ride waves on SUP's etc.. They put the hours in on HPS's and also use 890 / 810 BSC's still for SUP.. Now they are good enough to reap the advantages of the ART's

Try a 999 if you can.. try a 980 even.. Either way tho.. get 1 foil and stick to it for a few months and get to know it.. They're all incredibly good versatile foils .. all the chopping and changing just causes too much chaos in my mind..

Hope you can make it to W. Ireland sometime.. Not far from Wales...

Hope that helps..

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northy1 said..
Thanks all

Any thoughts on the wind range for the ART 999 vs HPS 980, 930, 880 for 90kg intermediate using a 6m and 4m - looking to get more control in swell and waves over my 910png (not downwinding - just riding)
Would this be about right?
980 10-18kt
930 - 14-22kt
880 16-24kt
But where would the 999 fit in?

i tried a 930 last week on short fuse and my 420 and felt almost immediately at home (ie can gybe etc) but was not sure of the approproate wind range as it was 10 mins in very very flukey winds with a friends 4m (mine in repair shop)

I have a 1150 for the Summer also so essentially looking at complementing this.

I think wind ranges are related to wing size in that wind strength.. I don't change foils for wind strength as much as i would for swell size.. Big swell - smaller foil.. Small swell - bigger foil.. Use 899 or 880 on anything from 2m - 5m wings..

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northy1 said..
Thanks all

Any thoughts on the wind range for the ART 999 vs HPS 980, 930, 880 for 90kg intermediate using a 6m and 4m - looking to get more control in swell and waves over my 910png (not downwinding - just riding)
Would this be about right?
980 10-18kt
930 - 14-22kt
880 16-24kt
But where would the 999 fit in?

999 needs more speed to get on foil than the 880, but not much. Extrapolating your table probably goes: 880, 999, 830, 899.

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DTee said..

northy1 said..
Thanks all

Any thoughts on the wind range for the ART 999 vs HPS 980, 930, 880 for 90kg intermediate using a 6m and 4m - looking to get more control in swell and waves over my 910png (not downwinding - just riding)
Would this be about right?
980 10-18kt
930 - 14-22kt
880 16-24kt
But where would the 999 fit in?

999 needs more speed to get on foil than the 880, but not much. Extrapolating your table probably goes: 880, 999, 830, 899.

With such a small range like that, you're almost going to be coming into the beach to change up or down multiple times in a session. I've always tried to simplify it with just a two foil quiver of . But whatever keeps you on the water and having fun!

Select to expand quote

sorry im not suggesting i get all those foils
i have 1150 and 910 already

after the brilliant feedback here i think i will keep the 1150 for the lightest of days .. then look for a HPS setup below this. My immediate thinking is to go 930...but concern will be that there will be a big gap between the two...and i really only want to use the 1150 for the lightest of days (i much prefer the 910 to the 1150 today...so want to drop down off to a smaller more playful foil as soon as i can). The alternative is i go 1050/930 or 980/880..not sure if i would need the 1150 still ..i guess so for at least that 2nd combo.


on paper i guess my non ART options are

1150 png + 930hps (sell 910)
1050 hps + 930 (sell 910)
980 hps + 880 (sell 910)
1150 png + 980hps + 880 (sell 910)
1150png + 910png + 880

Bloody Axis...too many options!!!

Oskar is 68kg i think - his observations of the 880 and 899 reflect my experiences very closely..


999 review:


899 review :


880 review :

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northy1 said..
Thanks all

Any thoughts on the wind range for the ART 999 vs HPS 980, 930, 880 for 90kg intermediate using a 6m and 4m - looking to get more control in swell and waves over my 910png (not downwinding - just riding)
Would this be about right?
980 10-18kt
930 - 14-22kt
880 16-24kt
But where would the 999 fit in?

i tried a 930 last week on short fuse and my 420 and felt almost immediately at home (ie can gybe etc) but was not sure of the approproate wind range as it was 10 mins in very very flukey winds with a friends 4m (mine in repair shop)

I have a 1150 for the Summer also so essentially looking at complementing this.

Hi Northy,

Feel as though I am well placed to answer this.
I have ridden all of those foils, and have owned most of them.
Also am at 90kgs, and predominately wing.

To begin with the HPS range are all so close, you need to skip a size.
E.g 880 and 980.

However you asked for something that compliments your 1150.
10knots+ is 1150 territory, and 980 is too close to the 1150.

If you wanted to go a 2 wing quiver, it would be 1150 and 930.
3 wing quiver in HPS would be 1150, 930, 830.

However I find the ART999 has a far greater wind range than the HPS series.
It's my opinion that the 999 bridges HPS980 > HPS880.

So I if you took the 999, you would then complement it with a smaller ART like the 899, or the 830.

As mentioned above, see if you can try the 999.

Has anyone experienced this with the 899. I'm foiling at cruising speed with balanced feet, then I go faster, around 20mph+. It wants to dive down and I need to lean BACK fairly hard to stay flying.
I got to a point on a reach where I could sheet in and experience this and sheet out and be balanced.
This didn't happen with my 999. I use the 375 progressive rear tail on a short fuse and 96cm carbon mast.

This would explain why I usually fall by touching down when I'm going fast.

Is it the tail/foil or is it me or my board?

Select to expand quote

JohnnyTsunami said..
Has anyone experienced this with the 899. I'm foiling at cruising speed with balanced feet, then I go faster, around 20mph+. It wants to dive down and I need to lean BACK fairly hard to stay flying.
I got to a point on a reach where I could sheet in and experience this and sheet out and be balanced.
This didn't happen with my 999. I use the 375 progressive rear tail on a short fuse and 96cm carbon mast.

This would explain why I usually fall by touching down when I'm going fast.

Is it the tail/foil or is it me or my board?

Producing excess lift at speed is a unique trait of the ART range. This is a bit of an unfortunate trait whereby the lift never plateaus, it just keeps building the faster you go. But you're saying you loose lift at speed? Now this is strange, as this is a new one.

You can look to move the mast slightly forward in the box. You should be riding in the back half of the box with this range anyway, a pretty contrasting setup when going from the HPS range. Where you can ride at the front of the box and you'll never breach.

I've found that the ART series are incredibly sensitive to tail setup. They match really well with the progressive tails, especially 350/375. But they are a dog with anything bigger.

Select to expand quote

Smeee said..

northy1 said..
Smeee...really interesting feedback. Im about to buy a HPS and unclear what model / size. Im 90kg, 50 yr old, intermediate level (Wales)...use the 910png a lot

i tried the 930 HPS yesterday in flat and choppy conditions with a 4m...but not sure if its too small for using with a 5 or 6m that i use 75% of the time.

Any guidance?

Sorry to hijack
Northy

Hi Northy..

No worries jumping on this thread..

Like DWF says, i think going PNG - HPS - ART is probably a good way to go.. My wife recently just jumped from 890 BSC to 880 HPS and she experiences similar differences to those I'm experiencing going from 880 HPS to 899 ART.. Mostly that the takeoff needs more planing speed and much subtler foot work (I.e planing up onto foil with wing power more than pumping onto foil with foot power) .. I don't think she would like the 899 at all yet..

The extra comparable width and straighter LE of the ART's need a shorter fuse to loosen them up (IMHO) which then creates potential issues with pitch stability especially with the increased top end speed..

Most of the 90KG guys around here were using 980 HPS in 5m weather and lighter and 880 HPS in windier weather last year. I'm sure the 930 would've been perfect for them last year..

They've moved onto 999's now most of the time but are also experimenting with 899 and even 799 for strong wind winging with good results. I'll say tho that they are experienced guys 2+ years of nonstop winging.. well able to consistently gybe and tack at each end and ride waves on SUP's etc.. They put the hours in on HPS's and also use 890 / 810 BSC's still for SUP.. Now they are good enough to reap the advantages of the ART's

Try a 999 if you can.. try a 980 even.. Either way tho.. get 1 foil and stick to it for a few months and get to know it.. They're all incredibly good versatile foils .. all the chopping and changing just causes too much chaos in my mind..

Hope you can make it to W. Ireland sometime.. Not far from Wales...

Hope that helps..

Any thoughts on the 890BSC. So far its my favorite wing. I just got the HPS 1050 and LOVE it, the BSC1060 was a good starter but It was too slow and got outrun by the swell, the HPS is a lot more fun and I feel I can get it on foil almost as well as the 1060. What would you say is the difference between the 890BSC and the 880HPS?

DC

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Dcharlton said..

Smeee said..

northy1 said..
Smeee...really interesting feedback. Im about to buy a HPS and unclear what model / size. Im 90kg, 50 yr old, intermediate level (Wales)...use the 910png a lot

i tried the 930 HPS yesterday in flat and choppy conditions with a 4m...but not sure if its too small for using with a 5 or 6m that i use 75% of the time.

Any guidance?

Sorry to hijack
Northy

Hi Northy..

No worries jumping on this thread..

Like DWF says, i think going PNG - HPS - ART is probably a good way to go.. My wife recently just jumped from 890 BSC to 880 HPS and she experiences similar differences to those I'm experiencing going from 880 HPS to 899 ART.. Mostly that the takeoff needs more planing speed and much subtler foot work (I.e planing up onto foil with wing power more than pumping onto foil with foot power) .. I don't think she would like the 899 at all yet..

The extra comparable width and straighter LE of the ART's need a shorter fuse to loosen them up (IMHO) which then creates potential issues with pitch stability especially with the increased top end speed..

Most of the 90KG guys around here were using 980 HPS in 5m weather and lighter and 880 HPS in windier weather last year. I'm sure the 930 would've been perfect for them last year..

They've moved onto 999's now most of the time but are also experimenting with 899 and even 799 for strong wind winging with good results. I'll say tho that they are experienced guys 2+ years of nonstop winging.. well able to consistently gybe and tack at each end and ride waves on SUP's etc.. They put the hours in on HPS's and also use 890 / 810 BSC's still for SUP.. Now they are good enough to reap the advantages of the ART's

Try a 999 if you can.. try a 980 even.. Either way tho.. get 1 foil and stick to it for a few months and get to know it.. They're all incredibly good versatile foils .. all the chopping and changing just causes too much chaos in my mind..

Hope you can make it to W. Ireland sometime.. Not far from Wales...

Hope that helps..

Any thoughts on the 890BSC. So far its my favorite wing. I just got the HPS 1050 and LOVE it, the BSC1060 was a good starter but It was too slow and got outrun by the swell, the HPS is a lot more fun and I feel I can get it on foil almost as well as the 1060. What would you say is the difference between the 890BSC and the 880HPS?

DC

The 880HPS is just so much faster, more efficient and has more glide than 890 BSC.. and the take off / stall speed difference is negligible .. (imho)

I put 880 on my wife's board the other day secretly (hidden in 890 cover) .. she watched me move the mast back 10mm from normal tho.. when she came in she couldn't believe how much better everything felt / went by just moving foil back a bit .. it was only then I revealed she'd been on 880 and now that's her go-to foil full stop .. the blind test is the best test .. the 890 is great for getting going really early, going really slow and figuring things out, but the HPS foils are so good for winging .. similar differences to what you found between 1060 and 1050..

Re the 899.. a few more months in..

.. I went back to surfing my 880 for a few months to get really dialled in to connecting waves.. got to a point where I could connect 4 or 5 waves consistently and also dockstart it..
2 weeks ago I happened to have my 899 on my board (after a downwinder) with no tools to put 880 on so paddled out to see how I got on and managed 3 for 1 on 899 no worries.. putting the hours in on HPS definitely unlocked the ARTs .. only foil I use now is 899 for winging, surfing, shore runners downwinders >20knots etc.. (wife nicked 880 - see above) .. I very occasionally 1099 down the dock or for tiny surf etc.. summer is coming at this end ...

I'm starting to believe dock starting 899 will be possible.. just need to borrow a 999 as a stepping stone ..

oh.. changed stab from 400p to 350 ..

How did the stab change feel? They have a 300 on the site now as well.

Easier to control pitch or harder?

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JohnnyTsunami said..
How did the stab change feel? They have a 300 on the site now as well.

Easier to control pitch or harder?

Yeah pitch control wasn't any different really .. using ultrashort not crazy short tho ..

What I was finding with 400 was the stab's downforce trying to increase the AOA in between pumps / when gliding was causing the nose to lift / stalling too early .. the lift is too much for my 68kg .. it's a subtle thing and not a big deal .. would be happy all day long on 400p, but when we're being teased ... could maybe have tried a -1 shim too .. moving foil back an inch, especially compared to HPS helped a lot.

haven't tried 350 with 1099 yet.. think this will be good tho ..

I just took my new 325 stab out on crazyshort with 1099 on the ding. The 1099 now turns like the 999 but with all the extra glide. I highly recommend taking the 1099 out in big wind if you have one. It is not just for light days. It's a good reminder that your body is a sail when your wing is flagged. I guess this is what efoiling feels like minus the 80lb board.

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broVan said..
I just took my new 325 stab out on crazyshort with 1099 on the ding. The 1099 now turns like the 999 but with all the extra glide. I highly recommend taking the 1099 out in big wind if you have one. It is not just for light days. It's a good reminder that your body is a sail when your wing is flagged. I guess this is what efoiling feels like minus the 80lb board.

Oh classic ! Yeah .. 1st session on 1099 was a flat water downwinder with my 2m mantis in 40+knots.. was incredible .. looking forward to trying small stab with it for sure .. and getting the right conditions for a prone Downwinder ... yeeew