I foil on an Axis HPS 830 and HPS 930 mainly with a 350P stabilizer and it's fairly typical for me to get around 22knots out of these at the top end - this is in reasonably choppy water, it's never really flat where I foil and if it is flat then it's less than 12 knots of wind, so nobody is going particularly fast.

I tried an ART PRO 1001 and it really didn't feel that fast compared to the HPS (almost on par) and it's made me wonder what sort of top end others are getting out of these?

Additionally whilst it didn't feel faster it's low end was waaaaay worse than the HPS 830/930, so I'm just intrigued as to whether people are getting much faster speeds out of their ART PROs or is it just placebo?

Let me know you speed stats, I want to get an idea of what these are actually capable of and whether there is a value in demoing the 1001 again and pushing it harder and seeing if I can get more out of it or maybe it needs a skinny stab to unlock its speed potential?

I find that some people, me, can't go past a certain speed regardless of the foil.

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MeonAsh said..
I foil on an Axis HPS 830 and HPS 930 mainly with a 350P stabilizer and it's fairly typical for me to get around 22knots out of these at the top end - this is in reasonably choppy water, it's never really flat where I foil and if it is flat then it's less than 12 knots of wind, so nobody is going particularly fast.

I tried an ART PRO 1001 and it really didn't feel that fast compared to the HPS (almost on par) and it's made me wonder what sort of top end others are getting out of these?

Additionally whilst it didn't feel faster it's low end was waaaaay worse than the HPS 830/930, so I'm just intrigued as to whether people are getting much faster speeds out of their ART PROs or is it just placebo?

Let me know you speed stats, I want to get an idea of what these are actually capable of and whether there is a value in demoing the 1001 again and pushing it harder and seeing if I can get more out of it or maybe it needs a skinny stab to unlock its speed potential?

Higher AR doesn't necessarily translate to higher top speed. In very general terms you get a higher "best glide" speed and a worse "minimum sink rate". No different than in aviation. If you want to go faster you need a smaller front and rear foil.

Example: I really enjoy one manufacturers 10.2AR 850cm2 front foil with a Kane marlin 14 tail shimmed board nose down 3/4 degree. With the same manufacturers 7.5AR 1150cm2 front foil I had to take that shim out of the tail as the board was constantly diving (point; set angle of attack of the two foils is different by design). Once tuned the 7.5AR foil seemed to have roughly the same glide as the 10.2AR foil. What I was really feeling was the better sink rate of the lower AR foil. If you actually measured the glide the higher AR foil has better glide at a higher speed. The top speeds were roughly the same, about 24mph.

You can go screaming around on a Mikes Lab 540 but god forbid you drop under 10knots.

I spent quite a while trying to get good speeds out of the original ARTs without much luck. My top max 2secs on an ART 899 was 24.5 knots and I just could not get past that (with the speed stab and progressive).

Subsequently I've changed to AFS and now mostly ride a Silk 1050, which is bigger than the ART 899 but faster (and waaay better in swell) with a max2secs over 25knots.
www.gps-wingfoiling.com/default.aspx?mnu=user&val=424496&uid=26987

I've also used the Silk 650 which is surprisingly easy for a small foil. I got this to over 26knots
www.gps-wingfoiling.com/default.aspx?mnu=user&val=424495&uid=26987

(all those speeds were with the 80 Hm mast, I defo would have got faster speeds with a 95)

If you want to go fast (and have easy performance) AFS foils are it.
(I've also raced on the AFS Pure Race 560 and a Levitaz R5-S, both are much faster again, but the Levitaz in particular is extremely technical to ride)

I think top speed is a factor of the foil section. Which is why the arts weren't that fast, they used the HP's foil section, just in a ha format. Hence also the good low end. The artpros are the same or very similar section to the Spitfires, just the effort to get them to that speed is less. And also the rider comfort at speed is the other factor.

On the Axis forum there are guys doing over 26kn on the ART pros .

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warwickl said..
On the Axis forum there are guys doing over 26kn on the ART pros .

That's not that hard though. I've done about 24 on a 999. A little faster on the 899... I want to get an ART Pro that's just a bit faster than the ART 999, without sacrificing too much low end. I'm pretty sure the 1121 will give me that, but I'm wondering if I can do it with the 1051. I expect the 1051 will sacrifice a bit of low end, but if it's more forgiving than the 899, without slightly better low-end than the 899, I'll be happy. I'm 83kg BTW.

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FoilWays said..

warwickl said..
On the Axis forum there are guys doing over 26kn on the ART pros .

That's not that hard though. I've done about 24 on a 999. A little faster on the 899... I want to get an ART Pro that's just a bit faster than the ART 999, without sacrificing too much low end. I'm pretty sure the 1121 will give me that, but I'm wondering if I can do it with the 1051. I expect the 1051 will sacrifice a bit of low end, but if it's more forgiving than the 899, without slightly better low-end than the 899, I'll be happy. I'm 83kg BTW.

Haven't got any stats but the low end is better than the 899 and it will go faster without getting flighty. But in its range in the middle, I prefer the 899. I've chopped the tips very slightly, rounded the leading edges, and now it tip breaches better. It turns much better than the 1051, I agree with Adrian Ropers assessment that span is the main variable that dictates how a foil will turn. I use the 1051 for sup when it's small and slopey, dw and light wind wing (76kg). Once it's windy, the swell gets up, or the wind gets over 15knts, or prone, the 899 is on. I've had a 900sf but went back to the 899 because I don't really need that pocket control where I live. I need ease of pump and glide much more. I would say that the 1051 is comparable to the999 in turning, but I haven't ridden one for 2 years. I traded for 899 and 1099. It's certainly way better than the 1099.

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FoilWays said..

warwickl said..
On the Axis forum there are guys doing over 26kn on the ART pros .

That's not that hard though. I've done about 24 on a 999. A little faster on the 899... I want to get an ART Pro that's just a bit faster than the ART 999, without sacrificing too much low end. I'm pretty sure the 1121 will give me that, but I'm wondering if I can do it with the 1051. I expect the 1051 will sacrifice a bit of low end, but if it's more forgiving than the 899, without slightly better low-end than the 899, I'll be happy. I'm 83kg BTW.

Also, have you tried negative shimming the tail? I have a 300p that is always shimmed a degree or more, and a 360 skinny that is sometimes shimmed. It doesn't give more low end, just it slows down less, giving you time to get going again, giving the illusion of better low end. I wanted exactly the same out of the 899, and the skinny tail did it, once my skills got there....