How do you normally start on your current board?

I do knee starts. With the mid length style boards, as soon as I get a puff of wind in the wing, the board moves forward and I stand up and pump and off I go. ezpz

From reviews I've read ML was better as one-board for multi-sport (wing + surf), whilst FG was better if you only wing.

I have the 85 liter Mid coming in a week or two, I plan to use it as my light wind machine. I currently have the new 70 FG. I'll let you know my observations after a run or two. I will agree that the new shape of the FG does incorporate a lot of the character of the DW boards. I was surprised how quickly it released off the water.

As a single board for winging I would get the 80L FG especially if you can get a deal on the shop demo one.

The Armie 85L mid length is 6' 5'" and you will feel that in the turns especially doing the type of riding we do. (Lots of short runs and turns onto waves to ride flagged) It will also be more unstable getting going in the big cross seas when we get strong southerly's .

Having now riden the Carver 85, Sultan 85 and a custom 80L I have now gone off the idea of mid lengths. They are the "Jack of all trades but master of none"

After a decent amount of testing, I found the ML 75/85 is superior to Wing FG 70/80 in most aspects, mainly because
1. easier to water start once you mastered stinkbug technique. Especially in rough seas and patchy windy the Wing FG front tends to go under water, whereas the ML length really does help in avoiding that. If you dont use stinkbug then the ML is not easy because of the narrow width. But with stinkbug I found it much much easier to start. That is why the ML caters to intermediate and up riders. Would not put any beginner on those.
2. better wind range. The ML covers you from 9-10kt. The Wing FG, at least for me starts to be fun at 13-14kt.
3. maneuvers are easier on ML. Dont care what people say, but for me narrow boards (max 20") makes jibing, tacking, foot switches significantly easier. Less input to initiate and maintain carves, less chances for rails to touch the water, and less real estate to mess up with foot placement.
4. pumping. The leverage you have due to a longer platform, at least for me, allowed me to pump more easily on ML than Wing FG when going straight downwind or long haul.

The only cons I see happens if you into jumping and air. Obviously Wing FG has more pop, softer landing and less windage.

Hope it helps you in choosing the right board

I've had a half dozen runs on the ML85 in flat water to surf. I also have a 70 FG.
Pro's - First off, they do generate forward speed better than a shorter wider style board. That's Physics ;). What stood out to me was how stable it was fore and aft. I'm 64, 6'2" and 185. There is less side 2 side stability, but after a few sessions I didn't notice it anymore. Your stance will naturally come more to the centerline which makes sense. I ride the foot straps all the way forward. I def feel less swing weight then my past generation boards. There just isn't much forward of my foot-straps.
The board also jumps nicely which was a surprise.
Con's - If you're in really short length choppy water, you'll feel it a little more because of the length. As I said above, it jumps and lands smooth but obviously wouldn't be my choice for spin tricks. Did some mule kicks and felt the length then compared to my 70 FG which is 5'. Did some low jibes and tacks on purpose, to see how it bounces off touchdowns. I think the rounder forward hull grabs water slightly more then a bevel front like the FG. But the rounder hull is better at slow passive speed. Conclusion. Love the ML, it's def my light to moderate wind choice. However, moderate to heavy the FG is my choice. I can do all the different starts but at my age, it'll wear you out and takes the fun out of it. If your a jumper or trickster, get the FG otherwise the ML are here to stay. Hope that helps.

DWF said..
Key point in all this, poster says turning 70 soon. Same age here. Mid length are much easier to get your feet. Arthritis friendly shapes for sure.

If you're not age 70, you have no idea of what's to come. haha.

That was one of my points, at 64 I can see 70 real clearly, it's 30's, 40's and 50's that I can't see in the mirror anymore. Spending copious amounts of time on my knees or doing basically a squat in the water is not fun anymore. :) Here's a toast to just having fun.

eppo said..
To counter my choice above : given the ease of water starting why not consider a smaller ML board? Bring the length down a bit. Also i don't know anyone who is getting up in choppy conditions would t use the stinkbud stance. So much more stable and easier technique for starting?

23 inch is so wide.

starting I think would be easy also on a 65 or 75 for me at 88kg with stinkbug. But I'd be v worried if wind drops sub 8kt and you need to balance the board off foil shlogging back to the beach. The ML is v unstable while standing w/o the support of the wing hence I recommend getting volume equal to the rider weight to cover those situations

SlowlyButSurely said..

Shlogger said..
I've had a half dozen runs on the ML85 in flat water to surf. I also have a 70 FG.
Pro's - First off, they do generate forward speed better than a shorter wider style board. That's Physics ;). What stood out to me was how stable it was fore and aft. I'm 64, 6'2" and 185. There is less side 2 side stability, but after a few sessions I didn't notice it anymore. Your stance will naturally come more to the centerline which makes sense. I ride the foot straps all the way forward. I def feel less swing weight then my past generation boards. There just isn't much forward of my foot-straps.
The board also jumps nicely which was a surprise.
Con's - If you're in really short length choppy water, you'll feel it a little more because of the length. As I said above, it jumps and lands smooth but obviously wouldn't be my choice for spin tricks. Did some mule kicks and felt the length then compared to my 70 FG which is 5'. Did some low jibes and tacks on purpose, to see how it bounces off touchdowns. I think the rounder forward hull grabs water slightly more then a bevel front like the FG. But the rounder hull is better at slow passive speed. Conclusion. Love the ML, it's def my light to moderate wind choice. However, moderate to heavy the FG is my choice. I can do all the different starts but at my age, it'll wear you out and takes the fun out of it. If your a jumper or trickster, get the FG otherwise the ML are here to stay. Hope that helps.

I concur with your conclusions.. as a side note, where do you put the mast relative to the Wing FG?
In my case, compared to the FG, with front strap in the mid insert on both, the ML rides better +1. For example with the HA780 I usually use 6 on wing GF and 7-7.5 on the ML.
With the HA1080 (my light wind front), 5 on the Wing FG and 6 on the ML.

I'm on a North SF930 and 830 most of the time. Ironically, I just looked, on my ML I'm 8 and the FG 7. I'm still playing and will bump my ML up to 9. I also rode w foot straps all the way forward. On the FG I moved the foot straps back one which seemed to be best balance when landing jumps for me and starts w my foot in the front strap.