Can anyone please advise where they have been placing their mast for HA wings relative to HS wings?
thanks

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windrider323 said..
Can anyone please advise where they have been placing their mast for HA wings relative to HS wings?
thanks

i have posted to kite foiling forum on similar query but would also like any feedback (sorry if threadjacking but seemed weird to start a second HA post!)

Have got an HA925 and 1125 for foiling and winging. Its my first Armstrong setup, moving from a lower aspect surf-style foil.

Seeking advice on a few points after today's session on HA925:

1. Shimming - didn't realise that the A+ setup is a negative 1 deg out the bag, spent half the session fighting to keep the foil down and then came in and after a quick google have put in a 0.5deg shim. Was definitely better but wondering whether i should go neutral. Hard to tell as i'm not used to the foil. Any recommendations on setup for kiting or winging?

2. Mast location - using the axis tray 94, usually i find i have to have my duotone carve right at the back of the track as otherwise my feet are too far forward. Think i might need the armstrong high aspect wing a bit further forward. anyone have feedback with this or another pocket board? Also same question as OP for winging with the 1125.

I feel like a kook again, footswaps and tacks out the window!

I like the HA 1125 and 925 with the 232 stabilizer, and for that combination, I like the stability that the stock -1 degree provides.
I went neutral on the 1125 with the FV200 tail and I enjoyed the ride better than at -1. Haven't had a chance to test the 200 tail with the 925, but will probably stick the shim in to start with. So many variables, not to mention changing water and wind conditions. I shifted my 925 a bit forward after positioning it in the spot I use for the HS1250. Not a great comparison, but for those two foil wings, this is the positioning on the wingfoilboard that works for me so far.

I find body weight will affect mast position, heavier person can have mast further forward than lighter person etc, the center of effort of foil should be centered between legs in comfy stance, I shim till the board rides nose down then i shim it back so theres just a touch of front foot pressure, at normal speeds.Also if you dont like where you are standing on board adjust mast position to put you where you want to stand, i use the foot strap holes and draw magic marker lines on my deck to tell if i need to adjust my feet( im strapless 75-80 kg ride armstrong fg 88l mast set at 3 with 1550v2 925, 300 stab) i try to find a setting that works for all the foils im riding, so i dont have to adjust anything all the time, and just move my stance slightly forward or back, been lovn it so far, from flats, chop to waves. Granted if your racing this probably wont put you on the podium.

Anyone using straps that can reply?
looking for a distance between mast placement for the hs vs ha foils

On same shim and tail (not enough is discussed on the actual tail used) I go 1 increment further forward on the mast from the 1250 to the 925. For
example with current tail I ride the 1250
at 6 and the 925 at 7.

Thanks eppo
how far apart are the graduations?

Oh yeh I'm on a 4'10 39L FG board. I think they are a cm or so . never measured. Someone may know exactly ? But the HAs have some going forward and some going right back. It's really up to the person insuppose and what tail and shim they use. You kind of need to experiment.

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CH3MTR4IL5 said..

windrider323 said..
Can anyone please advise where they have been placing their mast for HA wings relative to HS wings?
thanks

i have posted to kite foiling forum on similar query but would also like any feedback (sorry if threadjacking but seemed weird to start a second HA post!)

Have got an HA925 and 1125 for foiling and winging. Its my first Armstrong setup, moving from a lower aspect surf-style foil.

Seeking advice on a few points after today's session on HA925:

1. Shimming - didn't realise that the A+ setup is a negative 1 deg out the bag, spent half the session fighting to keep the foil down and then came in and after a quick google have put in a 0.5deg shim. Was definitely better but wondering whether i should go neutral. Hard to tell as i'm not used to the foil. Any recommendations on setup for kiting or winging?

2. Mast location - using the axis tray 94, usually i find i have to have my duotone carve right at the back of the track as otherwise my feet are too far forward. Think i might need the armstrong high aspect wing a bit further forward. anyone have feedback with this or another pocket board? Also same question as OP for winging with the 1125.

I feel like a kook again, footswaps and tacks out the window!

This specifically for kiting yes?

I don't kite myself, I only wing and prone, but I've heard similar "issues" from a kiting buddy regarding "struggling to keep the foil down". I think this has mostly to do with the kite pulling you upthrough your waist though, compared to winging where the force is going through your arms..

For winging I actually encounter the opposite: the foil tends to want to nosedive at higher speeds, so you're fighting the pitch down. I'm now running a clipped and reversed red shim (so -2deg total) on the 60 fuse, 85 mast with the fv200 tail, for the HA925. I've heard a lot of people do the same for the HA wings, some even going -3 or more.

However yeah, for kiting I can see how perhaps you want positive shims, as you're being pulled up, making it harder to put pressure on front foot. Positive shims will make everything less stable though, so perhaps a longer fuse or bigger tail can help.

925HA/85M/60F/200V no shim riding 75FG board position 9 crawling to 10 ??

Not entirely relevant to OP, but I had a fun flat water session yesterday with a 3M wing and 60L FG Board set at 4.5cm, 85M, 70 Fuse, -2 Shim, FV Tail. Started 725, then 925, then 1325, changing nothing else, as the wind dropped. Super fun session, despite the 4 degree C air and pouring rain, working on tacks and 360s. I didn't need to move the mast surprisingly. No straps, so I may have been moving my feet to compensate a bit, not sure. I wish I had put the 1125 in the mix, but was short on time. Gusty 10-20 knots.

The 725 felt like it was on rails and very loose. Not my favorite in the flat water conditions, although I was underpowered with the 3M. Maybe would have been more enjoyable with a 4M or paired with the 232 tail to compensate.

The 925 felt amazing with that setup. Powered up S-Turns were on point. Want to try in waves with that fuse tail combo. I see what Foil Addict was talking about.


The 1325 was a beast, but it was fun to ride backwinded and pull some 360s. The amount of time you have to fumble with the wing while wearing mittens is something else. Seriously fumbling around and surprised to still be cruising through transitions. The 70 Fuse was surprisingly nimble, I guess the FV200 helped.

Heelside to toeside gybes were almost 100% Heineken gybes (loving those in light-medium wind). Toeside to heelside transitions are always tacks now. Struggling again on heelside to toeside tacks.

Thanks MAF

anyone else using a 70 fuse winging with the ha foils?
I found them super pitch sensitive with a 60 fuse 232 tail even shimmed to -2 when winging.

do you find the v tail settles this?struggling to dial them in atm. love them supping however. No pitch issues there even when using +2 shim.

I've had a HA1325 for a couple of weeks, yet to get it dialled as the wind has been very light. 70 fuse for pitch stability, 232, 72 mast. I've tried a few shim settings, the only conclusion is I'm wanting to be overpowered to allow me to focus on the 1325 characteristics. Had some fun sessions with my 2400 foil and 7m slick in sub 8 knot winds though.

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windrider323 said..
Thanks MAF

anyone else using a 70 fuse winging with the ha foils?
I found them super pitch sensitive with a 60 fuse 232 tail even shimmed to -2 when winging.

do you find the v tail settles this?struggling to dial them in atm. love them supping however. No pitch issues there even when using +2 shim.

I'm using a 70 fuse under an 85 mast with the 925 and 232, no shim. It felt reasonably stable, more than I expected. Transitions required more speed and commitment on my part compared to the hs wing I also ride on that setup. When riding straight on reaches, I felt pitch stable and could focus quite a bit on catching swell and making headway upwind.

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MidAtlanticFoil said..


The 925 felt amazing with that setup. Powered up S-Turns were on point. Want to try in waves with that fuse tail combo. I see what Foil Addict was talking about.

Can you please elaborate on what foiladdict said that you were referring to. I went and looked but could not find anything. Or maybe it was on other social media. Thanks

Be interesting to try these HAs on a 70 fuse will give it a whirl.

I previously had only tried the 70 fuse once with the 1125 when I first got that wing and I trouble making transitions (super wide arcing, high speed gybes, fumbling with backwinded wing). I can't recall which shim I went with, but I expect it was the +1 Titanium.

I like to make the analogy for tail wings like this: Imagine a paper airplane with the little tail flaps. If you put them up, the plane will maintain a more stable, slower flight (unless you really throw it hard). If you put the tail flaps neutral, the wing will be faster, less predictable, and make it to the ground sooner.

Makes sense if you imagine a plain trying to make a banking turn with tail flaps down/neutral versus tail flaps up. The tail flaps up will allow a tighter and lower speed banking turn with less likelihood of stalling.

These newer HA wings are so much more efficient that the tail wing angle and tail can have a subtle effect, compared to the HS and CF wings where the front wing's chord and other characteristics perhaps exaggerate the tail wing settings (Put a -2.5 on the 2400 and see what happens!)

Foiladdict said in the Progression Podcast episode that he prefers to ride the 1125 and 925 with the 70 fuse and the tail set at -2.5 or -3.5 (can't recall which or which tail (FV200 I think, or his tails)). He said that this setting is likely not very common among Armstrong riders, and he was right. I'd never tried anything beyond the -1 (no shim) setting on the A+ fuse.

I ran the 70 fuse the other day to try the 725 in flat water to see how it went. I had a -2 titanium shim and tried that first. It went surprisingly well with all three wings I rode (725, 925, 1325). Next time I may try -2.5. I want to put on my 13" KDmaui stab and give that a go as well.

How all the above translates to kiting, I'm not sure. I guess that the -2 through -3.5 tail shims would allow the mast to be slid back a few CMs and a more forward stance to keep more of a lever on the slightly higher lift characteristics. The more you creep towards the + tail settings, the more wild the ride (outside variables have more of an effect).

Been discussed before , with a longer fuse you have more " leverage " so the shim or tail will have a greater effect than it does on a shorter fuse. Wonder if any boffins have worked out the relationship......ie -1 degree extra = 10 cm longer fuse ? Then you throw in different mast lengths too

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MidAtlanticFoil said..

Thank you very much for that info