I've seen people do them with my own eyes so the answer is no. But you would't know if from my efforts.

I can jibe, my foot switches are above 50%, toe side riding is OK (I can build a little speed turning off the wind, but struggle to ride further upwind), and I'm riding a stable foil (Armstrong HS1550). Nevertheless, when I begin (toeside) my upwind turn and transition the wing, riding feels so sketchy. My best attempts seem to happen when I enter the tack with more speed and look through the turn.

I don't have any video so probably doesn't make sense to ask what I have wrong (a long list, I bet). Instead, I thought I'd ask, what was the thing for you that made tacks click?

Select to expand quote

choosywinger said..
Nevertheless, when I begin (toeside) my upwind turn and transition the wing, riding feels so sketchy.

In general I think people recommend learning that toeside tack first. However, I think some folks are best off learning the heelside tack first and here's why:

When I do a normal gybe and turn from heelside to toeside I compress my body and bank into that turn. With the toeside tack, while the turn over your toes is the same, I don't feel as though the body mechanics are the same. While I want to compress and lean into the toeside tack I can't very well because the wing is behind me and needs to be lifted up and over my body. This makes the toeside tack feel like my posture needs to be extended, not compressed to complete.

Conversely:

When I do a normal gybe turning from toeside to heelside I am able to compress my body, lean back, power through that turn. When I am doing a heelside tack I am also able to compress my body, lean back, power through that turn, and then at the very end I flip the wing over my head.

So, for me, while the toeside tack is considered "easier" I would say the heelside tack is far more natural.

More speed going into it. Cut harder upwind than you think you need to before you pass the wing overhead (need speed to do this). Push the strut to the outside of the turn with your back hand. Maintain front foot pressure.

If you keep those points in mind, you will get it.

Tacks are easy. A few pointers, hopefully some of these will help you to unlock it:

When initiating a turn, move your front hand to the very beginning of the front handle. This reduces wing's angle of attack and makes it more neutral when going against the wind, so it would not act as a break.

Be prepared to let go of the back hand early enough. If you keep power in the wing with your back hand it would slow you down once heading towards the wind.

Some wings do not switch from one tack to another that easily and you have to actively steer them with your back hand. Depends on a wing. Quite a huge difference really.

Lean into the turns, a lot. Make sure your feet position is well balanced, so you can steer the foil with your feet only.

Try to start the turn while you are high on the mast, and loose the height gradually. Keep your weight forward to prevent the foil to stall. Quite many foil setups, when slowing down below some critical speed, have the tendency to point the nose of the board up a bit. You can avoid that by keeping your weight forward, and for example by deliberately keeping the wing way more forward with your front hand than you think is necessary.

If you struggle with toe side tacks, try the heel side ones. For me the toe side tacks were much easier, but some are getting the heel side tacks earlier.

Switch to a slightly faster foil that glides through the turns better, without stopping.

probably not the answer you need, but for me it was when i upgraded my hand wings to new ones.....that can cut through the air rather than old baggy ones. Even now with my Swing V4s are no where near as easy to tack Heelside as some other wings like the Duotones, Flux amongst others....

Watch some videos - but i think the toe side tack is a lot easier than it purports to be - throw that front hand up and ahead of you and keep front foot pressure....i quite like his videos
?feature=shared

Select to expand quote

choosywinger said..
My best attempts seem to happen when I enter the tack with more speed and look through the turn.

This continues to be a key for me...and I've really had to re-jigger my view of what it means to go "fast"...

I just had a session where I felt pretty overpowered, and played with seeing how fast I could go...then decided to throw in a jibe with all the extra time and momentum I had and it was the easiest ever (if I also looked ahead to my new point of sail early enough)

Gwen just put out video on this if you haven't seen it yet...

My jibing is similar to yours, which has frustrated me enough to start looking into tacks. I've done only very few tries, just enough to get an idea about what I need to know. I then can ask my wife, and double-check with lecture videos, about those details. For toe side tacks, the important things seem to be to (a) start moving the wing to the new side very early, and (b) to extend new front arm fully in front of you right away. Depending on the wing type, it can also be very important to get the wing totally flat (horizontal to the water) at the start (some wings needs this more than others).

Having the arm extended in front of your head, towards the nose of the board, is very important, since you'll have the apparent wind coming straight at you in the middle of the turn. It will push against the bladder, so if the arm is not extended to the front, and your weight forward, it will put you on your heels, followed by the nose coming up and a crash. Fully extending the arm towards the nose of the board on the new side prevents that.

My favorite teaching guru says to go straight into a tack after a jibe while learning. That probably works well for some people, but I don't like this particular idea. I found it useful to first practice riding toe side, including powering up to gain some speed, and little s-turns. I'd rather learn something new when I have the feeling that I'm in control. But I'm coming from windsurfing; if you're used to toe side from kiting (or snowboarding, skateboarding, prone foiling), that may be not an issue.

I've never bothered with toeside, always done heelside as they're faster and slicker.

Good wings and foils help.

Start with lots of speed, board low as you crank into wind, release back hand and shove lead had across into wind and across, but concentrate on riding the foil through the turn.

Forget all the tips above.You got us!
Yes the tack in undoable and all those tack tips and the profiles posting about it are fake.It is al A.I generated with as main goal fo F#ck people up and mak em buy more gear.If you look at this tack pick of "me" you can see clearly that it is AI: barely a visible face and no toes on the feet That is clearly not human but AI generated.

biggest thing for me is steering the wing ahead of the turn so it's pulling you through (or at least not acting as a brake/drag)... get the wing over early... this involves steering the wing aerodynamically so it wants to fly the other direction.... LE has to lead the way.... then have a glidey foil will help... finally if you can lead with the wing you can let it do its thing as it pulls you through with one hand on and you can concentrate on trimming the board/foil.... you want to be able to carve around w/ some good front foot feedback... most people turn w/ their back foot and nose up and stall

As in many other board sports look where you want to go. Your arms and hips will follow. Approach with speed and keep carving through the tack. Don't flatten your board in the middle of the tack. Lean into and forward to maintain the carve.

if you can't tell why your tack isn't working, start with the board stuff and then add the wing. you don't need to use the wing to tack, just to get you going on the other side. drop your back hand, let the wing flag holding it loosely on your front hand and execute the tack concentrating on the board. once you get to the point where you are facing the other direction and the foil is dropping into the water because you don't have the wing - then concentrate on the wing.

for the wing, ymmv may vary, i hold high above my head, no pressure on back hand until i get past directly up wind, then lower to the new side at the same time as I pull in on back hand

Select to expand quote

BWalnut said..

choosywinger said..
Nevertheless, when I begin (toeside) my upwind turn and transition the wing, riding feels so sketchy.

In general I think people recommend learning that toeside tack first. However, I think some folks are best off learning the heelside tack first and here's why:

When I do a normal gybe and turn from heelside to toeside I compress my body and bank into that turn. With the toeside tack, while the turn over your toes is the same, I don't feel as though the body mechanics are the same. While I want to compress and lean into the toeside tack I can't very well because the wing is behind me and needs to be lifted up and over my body. This makes the toeside tack feel like my posture needs to be extended, not compressed to complete.

Conversely:

When I do a normal gybe turning from toeside to heelside I am able to compress my body, lean back, power through that turn. When I am doing a heelside tack I am also able to compress my body, lean back, power through that turn, and then at the very end I flip the wing over my head.

So, for me, while the toeside tack is considered "easier" I would say the heelside tack is far more natural.

Tried heel side a few times without any great success. Definitely worth exploring more.

Thanks all for the tips. Lots to work on. Cheers.

Select to expand quote

sunsetsailboards said..
biggest thing for me is steering the wing ahead of the turn so it's pulling you through (or at least not acting as a brake/drag)... get the wing over early... this involves steering the wing aerodynamically so it wants to fly the other direction....

This was the only thing that really clicked for me. Tack the wing first, then it is easy (eventually ).

So much good advise above. Only thing to add is the right attitude. Pick a day like your third in a row where the conditions are a bit boring, then decide only tacks today! Just do it without being analyitical. Sometimes the less you think about it, the easier it gets.

Choosy, It's damn hard. I have been working on tacks for literally years now and still not reliable.
The biggest breakthrough for me was trying to learn in flat water. Chop and waves put more instability into the foil. You just don't need that. Minimise the variables as much as you can.
Toeside to heelside tacks are my favoured. Exiting heelside feels really good. Exiting toeside feels munted. (I think my co-ord is really the thing that's munted )
Then it was learning how to glide (unpowered) into the turn. Set up with plenty of speed. As you being to turn in, swap hands and move your (now) front hand in front of you - almost to direct where you want to go. As others have said, some wings don't fly predictably. Having a boom or solid handle can be beneficial as you can torque the sail to orientate in the correct direction for exit. In my early attempts I tried the full foiling tack. After failure I decided to just try gliding into the turns and not worry about the exit. So practice gliding in and then coming down off foil. Once you master that, then try and work the wing flip into it with the glide. Once you get that, then it's time to think about the exit.
The problem with tacking is there's lots of components in it. I'm not talented enough to master them all at once.
My 2c worth.
Good luck and don't give up.

Lots of great tips!.

+1 on the gear issue...skill is the primary factor as always but tacking a baggy,big tubed, soft handle wing is harder.

Modern sails with flatter profiles and more tension cut upwind like butter with little drag and flutter.This gives more time to carve,control mast height through bumps and re grab the wing.
Hard handles or rigid boom allow better control of the wing rolling above you.

The following is for the backside to front tack no foot switch. I tack both ways all day but don't switch feet ever. Back to front is easy front to back is very hard.
Biggest tip is to use the drag of the wing in the air to pull you through the turn. Shove that wing out in front of you over to the new side a full extended arm length ASAP so the drag of the wing is pulling you through the turn.

next tip is once the wing is there.ignore it. Don't ever look at it. If you look at the wing in any maneuver your toast. With the wing over on the new side your going to be looking over your shoulder but look forward and ride through your turn(if you prone out yourself in "prone foiling" mode and pump through that turn)

Select to expand quote

TooMuchEpoxy said..
The following is for the backside to front tack no foot switch. I tack both ways all day but don't switch feet ever. Back to front is easy front to back is very hard.
Biggest tip is to use the drag of the wing in the air to pull you through the turn. Shove that wing out in front of you over to the new side a full extended arm length ASAP so the drag of the wing is pulling you through the turn.

next tip is once the wing is there.ignore it. Don't ever look at it. If you look at the wing in any maneuver your toast. With the wing over on the new side your going to be looking over your shoulder but look forward and ride through your turn(if you prone out yourself in "prone foiling" mode and pump through that turn)

I'm probably not aggressive enough with the wing movement. And I'm sure the transition from powered wing stance entering the turn to to prone surfing stance is probably not quite happening quite correctly.

Select to expand quote

choosywinger said..

I'm probably not aggressive enough with the wing movement. And I'm sure the transition from powered wing stance entering the turn to to prone surfing stance is probably not quite happening quite correctly.

@choosywinger, what do you mean by "transition from powered wing stance entering the turn to to prone surfing stance"? There is one tack at the end of this short clip, and as you see there is no need to change anything, you should be able to stand the same way throughout the tack as you are standing during your normal riding.

Tacks are hard. Everything the guys wrote above is quite useful.
I would like to add to the importance of selecting the right gear.

It took me 50 sessions to get 60% of tacks right.
Then I changed my wing and switched to Axis 999. In just 1 session I got tacks to 80%
2 years later I can now do them almost with my eyes closed.
Last month I tried my old foil (slow, medium aspect foil) and old wing with large front baloon. I could not do a single tack. So I was not even back to the 60% success ratio on the same old gear. It felt really bad.

So, my recommendation, once you nail your jybes and before you start with tacks, upgrade your wing and foil to a higher aspect, glidier one.

For me, the wing (not the foil) has the biggest performance impact on the tack. There are wings that I have to really adjust technique to get through a tack (particularly heelside). The Ozone Flow and Flux are by far the easiest wings I have used for tacking. Some wings (like these) create lift through the tack and are effortless, and other wings push down through the tack and really need to be steered. With a wing that pushes down, the key is minimize the time when the wing is held neutral, by pushing the strut to the outside of the turn so that it moves from one side to the other pretty quickly. Gwen taught me this trick and at first it feels awkward to push in the opposite direction that you are turning, but it really works once you get it right. Easy to practice on the beach.

Note, I haven't read the entire thread. But here's my take. I nail all my tacks and when I fall it's just like any other random fall and not because I'm tacking. The secret of tacking is all in riding the foil. The wing barely matters. You need to be able to get around 100% on foil. For this reason, foils with more glide actually make it easier. The HS1550 is not very glidy.When tacking, bring the wing flat over your head with just your front hand on the handle, and put that hand close to your forehead. Then, forget about the effing wing and concentrate on coming all the way around. Don't even worry about recovering after coming around. Heck, don't even try and get the wing back in your hands. Concentrate on coming all the way around on foil. Do that 25 times. Then start trying to get the wing back into sailing position.

Thanks again to all. Lots of mentions of wing design impacting tacks, a topic I had not appreciated. My wings are a mix of 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation F-one Strikes. Where do they fall on the ease of tack spectrum?

Many mentions of glidier foils too. I have a couple of Armstrong MA foils (1250, 1050) and three new generation HA foils (780, 980, 1180). I had been using the HA foils this summer but went back to the HS1550 thinking the greater stability at slower speeds would be advantageous for learning. Is there any sort of consensus on which of the foil options may tack best?

The above notwithstanding, I'm quite sure the main piece of kit requiring modification is wetware and not hardware. I'll be certain to re-read this thread to absorb the advice before going out again.

Tacks are become accessible if you do not rush and you manipulate your wing to make it flip the other side and ready to engage. There is no wing hard to tack if you understand how to achieve this. In the video you will see people that get unstable because they let their wing floating in the wind too long and best tacker that making their wing change side just by the wind, not even drive it.

check this.

?si=pLL9T0lrWLCI9CTB

Select to expand quote

Taavi said..

choosywinger said..

I'm probably not aggressive enough with the wing movement. And I'm sure the transition from powered wing stance entering the turn to to prone surfing stance is probably not quite happening quite correctly.

@choosywinger, what do you mean by "transition from powered wing stance entering the turn to to prone surfing stance"? There is one tack at the end of this short clip, and as you see there is no need to change anything, you should be able to stand the same way throughout the tack as you are standing during your normal riding.

I should have said, "...powered wing stance to prone foil stance..." What I mean is transitioning from leaning against the wing (pre-transition) to balancing without the wing (mid-transition), then back to leaning against the wing (post-transition). "Prone foil stance" is the mid-transition balancing without the wing. Exiting the transition, it's back to powered wing stance again.

I tried to include screen caps from your excellent video but couldn't figure out how to make the server happy.

Select to expand quote

choosywinger said..

Taavi said..

choosywinger said..

I'm probably not aggressive enough with the wing movement. And I'm sure the transition from powered wing stance entering the turn to to prone surfing stance is probably not quite happening quite correctly.

@choosywinger, what do you mean by "transition from powered wing stance entering the turn to to prone surfing stance"? There is one tack at the end of this short clip, and as you see there is no need to change anything, you should be able to stand the same way throughout the tack as you are standing during your normal riding.

I should have said, "...powered wing stance to prone foil stance..." What I mean is transitioning from leaning against the wing (pre-transition) to balancing without the wing (mid-transition), then back to leaning against the wing (post-transition). "Prone foil stance" is the mid-transition balancing without the wing. Exiting the transition, it's back to powered wing stance again.

I tried to include screen caps from your excellent video but couldn't figure out how to make the server happy.

I see. Yes, the feet position is quite nuanced, and it's not easy to get it right in the beginning. When winging in a straight line for example, people often tend to stand a bit more towards the windward rail than they perhaps should, and they let the power in the wing to pull them leeward. But when doing so it's not easy to carve through the downwind turns like the jibes and 360s for example. For initiating the upwind turns (like a tack) this would not be a problem right away, it would even make the first part of the turn - carving into the wind - a bit easier, but the problem with the tack is, that at some point near the end of the turn, you should be able to come out of the carve by engaging the new windward side of the board. Hence the feet placement and having a good control over both sides of the board at all times is super critical.

More to watch:


My favorite is Ken Adgate around the 2:40 minute mark. Oh my god!
I can only back ahat Foilways wrote.
What has helped me most in learning to tack is focussing on the board almost entirely. When splitting my attention between manipulating the wing and carving the board I tended to leave my carving trajectory and end in the drink. Since I have been aiming to carve hard for more than 180 degrees with the wing held over my head it has become a piece of cake on any foil.
It might help others as well to think of a 360 rather than a tack, resulting in a turn of 200ish degrees. Exiting the transition on a downwind course makes sorting the wing and switching your feet a lot easier.

Lots of great advice on here.
Speed and glide are your friends. For me, learning tacks on the 1550 was a bit challenging. The HA880 covers approx. the same wind range and provides better glide time to complete the tack.

I also want to emphasize the benefit of practicing on the beach the overhead transition of the wing and hand switch while rotating your body through the tack until it becomes natural and effortless. It's much quicker to pick yourself up off the beach ;)

Lots of great advice on here.
Speed and glide are your friends. For me, learning tacks on the 1550 was a bit challenging. The HA880 covers approx. the same wind range and provides better glide time to complete the tack.

I also want to emphasize the benefit of practicing on the beach the overhead transition of the wing and hand switch while rotating your body through the tack until it becomes natural and effortless. It's much quicker to pick yourself up off the beach ;)