so time to upgrade. hard handles are an option, but I've been happy with softies for 4 years but it seems hard ones are all the rage now. So is there anyone out there who went to hard handles that now regrets it? and why? I mainly ride swells, up and downwind stuff. Dont really do tricks or jumps much. No proper surf around where i live, just storm swells.
cheers

If you want all out performance HH is the way to go. Downsize wings much earlier than soft handles. Meaning you use smaller wing as power generation to get up on foil is way better then soft. I see a lot of people complaining about going from 5m soft to HH and saying it's hard on the arms and hands. The reason is they're on too big of a wing and should probably be on a 4m HH. Look for pistol grip for easy surf performance. No regrets and I would never purchase a soft handle wing again. Try to demo if you can.

I like hard handles better than soft handles - but if you are happy with soft handles, it's hard to predict if you will prefer hard handles. My wife has soft handles on all of her wings, and just occasionally uses my wings. She still prefers her soft handle wings in general. Any comments about what she likes better about my wings are about very specific aspects, like handling in tacks, that have nothing to do with the handles. Neither does the size issue foilthegreats mentions seem to apply to her. Adjusting for body weight, she's often on the smallest wing out there, and keeps foiling when others (most with hard handles or booms) are starting to have problems. But the number of very good wingers at our spot is quite limited, which may distort the picture.

I own all soft handled wings and have tried hard handles for a few sessions. But I won't be going out buying wings with hard handles, as the soft ( not floppy ), handles wings I currently have work just fine, even in marginal conditions.
If I was racing for sheep stations, I would consider the hard handled models. However, what also needs to be considered, is the change in shapes that accompany the handles.

I switched from soft, floppy handles to hard handles (not a boom). I love how the hard handle wing flies - good power for size, drifts beautifully on waves & downwinding. I hate the handles. That said, this is my 2nd quiver from this brand, so I can live with what I feel are the downsides of the handles the hard handles kind of lock your wrists into one position, and the handles need to be held fairly firmly. I find the hard handles a bit fatiguing. Soft handles let you move & rotate your hands & wrists. The soft handle wing only needs a couple of fingertips to hold. In jibes & tacks, I feel that the soft are also better as you don't have to "grab" the handle. You only have to hook a fingertip or two to manage the transition. the soft handles are also easier to pack after a session Just roll up and stuff the wet sandy wing into a bag. No origami-style folding required. I've never tried a boom wing. After many years of ducking booms & masts while windsurfing, I want to keep anything hard far away from my head & board I know this is counter to about 95% of the reports out there, but there's a reason companies are sticking to soft handles. For background, 30+ years of windsurfing & kiting. Now 4 years winging & surf foiling. Advanced rider in strong winds & bigger waves & swell. 3m is my go-to wing.

Went from Soft to Boom. Traded some finger aches with the soft handles for wrist aches with the boom. I got a little carried away with going one handed on the boom one day and pushed my wrist a little too hard. Recovering and getting better, learning not to strain my wrist too much.

Handles were nice touch, using my fingers, didn't need to muscle but the boom just took the guess work out and its sooooo much easier on my transitions to just know you'll get the boom when you switch hands. Also a lot more control over the wing in lighter winds. Happy with the switch.

DC

Hard handles or a boom also allow you to easily support the wing one handed on those occasions when you outrun the wind while swell riding. They also provide more roll controls to the wing.

Just bought a 7m with soft handles. Own two smaller wings with boom. I find the soft handles horrible when doing jibes in low wind. The wing falls down mid turn and hits my face. Never buying again. Pumping is also pretty bad with the floppy handles.

Not all hard handles are the same.

Bought a Cabrinha 2022 wing with hard handles and they caused a fair amount of hand discomfort and fatigue. They were a pain to pack neatly.

On North Nova demo the handles were longer, much more comfortable and flying one-handed on waves was a breeze. Didn't like the way the handles could bash on the board in strong conditions. No damage but alarming. Very easy to pack but you have to accept a long thin pack instead of a more cube shaped bag.

The biggest downside for me seems to have been sorted- now that they've dialed in wings w/ hard handles to flag out great, I'm a permanent convert. At 95 kg, the positive solid feel, instant snap- I can pump up onto foil with smaller HH wing for sure. Also makes controlling, redirecting the wing through transitions pretty effortless- one hand, twist the handle to bring the wing over.

Hard handles absolutely MUST have the right angles and not very many do.
In the minimalist realm BRM has them figured out. Cabrinha doesn't (owned 2).

Others seem to be catching on slowly.

From ergonomic point of view the hard handles and booms are challenging, as mentioned before.
Coming from soft handles, now on hard handles for 6 months. Wrist, underarms and elbows receive a higher amount of stress. Movements initiated by the wing are transfered more direct, but also the rider is able to manipulate the wing "more" (but that can put more stress on the body).

I'm thinking of switching back to 'soft' handles. Part of that is 'ergonomics', part is for size/ease of packing (downwinding).

From ergonomic point of view the hard handles and booms are challenging, as mentioned before.
Coming from soft handles, now on hard handles for 6 months. Wrist, underarms and elbows receive a higher amount of stress. Movements initiated by the wing are transfered more direct, but also the rider is able to manipulate the wing "more" (but that can put more stress on the body).

I'm thinking of switching back to 'soft' handles. Part of that is 'ergonomics', part is for size/ease of packing (downwinding).

After three years on soft-handle wings (F1, BRM, Ocean Rodeo) I have ~10 sessions on a North Mode with hard handles. I don't hate the hard handles, but I don't see any advantage to them in handling or pumping onto foil. They are a little less comfortable on my wrists and forearms. They're not a deal breaker, but so far given the choice I would stick with the soft handles on F1 or OR over the North hard handles.

Everything better with hard handles, would never go back. Hard handles afford precision wing control, don't see any drawbacks. Have not noticed wrist or arm or shoulders being more stressed or sore. Fingertip flying no problem. Gybes are easier, flagging easier, transitions, foot switches, all of it much better with HH. Also way easier to recover from mistakes. Not difficult to pack up, either, just fold in half - handles out, roll up the 2 LE sides together and fold up with handles on the outside. DaKine cyclone v1 and v2
(Cabrinha)

I recently had a couple of days at Hood River demoing Slingshot gear and tried out all three wings on offer (boom, hard and soft handles). I ride soft handles at home and that was what I ended up preferring. I like light wings that float when I release the back hand. I was also a bit paranoid about scratching the top of a brand new board with the handles or boom while doing stinkbug starts.
I initially had sore forearms with the hard handles and boom (called the Javelin) wing but I hadn't winged much lately and I was often well overpowered. All three wings handle the gusty Gorge conditions very well. I felt that the boom version was more efficient but it also had a tendency to flip upside down a bit more.

I had my Freewing Nitro modified to accept the Ocean Rodeo Matrix Handle System ($100 modification). That way I can run carbon or soft handles, or a combo. If I'm underpowered a bit, I typically run the carbon. Overpowered I run the soft. If I run the carbon overpowered, It helps to have a good harness setup so you can take some of the load off your fingers/wrists during long tacks upwind.

from the first time I used the hard handles (smik) I knew I would never go back to soft handles. So much better control starting and riding.

I have boom wings, but have had several sessions with soft handles. I hate soft handles, you can't position your hands exactly where you want them and you have to be more particular about grabbing the correct handle in a gybe. I also found the smaller grip more painful, after a long session I developed a bit of a "claw hand" where it was difficult to open out my hand. I'm not fussed whether I use boom or hard handles, but limp handles are off the menu for me.

But there is a difference between 'soft' handles and 'floppy' handles - trying not to bring in brands, and it will comes down to personal choice.

I really like my Javelin with boom. The drawbacks are that the boom can be hazardous to your body and board. I have been riding it with a beautiful Kalama custom and have been very careful not to hit boom on board. Righting the wing after a crash must think about flipping wing away from board. Crawling on for stinkbug start has the boom in contact with board. I was reeling in my wing after a crash and gust picked up wing and slammed boom into my head which was helmeted otherwise would have been session ender. Other than all that, I really like the boom. I am sure that hard handles would have all of these hazards too.

Maybe there's a bit of distortion here from the fact that hard handles are a more recent development. Most wingers switching to hard handles will also be switching to a newer model that would also be better wing even if it had soft handles. Two of our first wings had soft handles, and I ended up really not liking them. One had been used so much that is was all bagged out; the other one had the handles placed wrong (I always wanted to hold it right in between two handles). The first (heavily used) wing was replaced with the same model, except V2 instead of V1, and I like that one just fine.

One big thing that changes when going to hard handles is that your front hand placement is crucial. Sliding your hand forward and backwards to find the most efficient balance for pull between front and back hands is maybe less intuitive. With soft handles, your hand will typically be in the sweet spot (or stubbornly outside the sweet spot). When performing tacks, front hand placement on my OR wing will decide whether the wing pulls up, stays neutral, or pushes down.

A year ago I switched to a North Mode. At first I thought, I kinda like my soft handles better. After three sessions, I'll never go back. Over time I've noticed during transitions everything is easier and more efficient. Started noticing that in jibes and tacks I would predominantly only be using one hand for most of the transition. I think eventually you'll only see Carbon for handles. I'd also envision companies offering different interchangeable bars for people w different hand sizes or cold water seasons.

I thought hard handles were great until I got my Gong Superpower with boom. I will never go back to soft handles, maybe I will get other hard handles. Yesterday I was riding a Nasih with 5 little loop handles, it was awful compared to the boom. Every hand switch required so much attention and not being able to put my hands in the exact right place is annoying. Not all soft handles are equal, but even the best ones I have tried are worse than the worst handles I've tried. Perhaps I will feel different about things in the winter with gloves on.

From a slightly different perspective I had my first session on a new Duotone Ventis with handles yesterday. All my other wings have booms and I really like them compared to the soft handle wings I have tried.
Despite the Ventis handles being quite long it took a while to get used to and I dropped quite a few gybes before I could get the hang of the handles, (pun alert) but after an hour it was OK, sort of. Still have to look for the handle instead of just reaching out for the boom. Also found them quite hard on the hands compared to the boom.
To answer the OP, I regret that Duotone have switched into hard handles for the big light wind wings.
Guess they couldn't make the boom work on the profile.

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MidAtlanticFoil said..
One big thing that changes when going to hard handles is that your front hand placement is crucial. Sliding your hand forward and backwards to find the most efficient balance for pull between front and back hands is maybe less intuitive. With soft handles, your hand will typically be in the sweet spot (or stubbornly outside the sweet spot). When performing tacks, front hand placement on my OR wing will decide whether the wing pulls up, stays neutral, or pushes down.

This is one of the reasons I'll be staying with my rigid soft, not floppy handled, Naish wings for now.

They damage your board especially using stink bug technique.
I miss the middle handle to ride one handed and recover from a ****e gybe.
The wing auto corrects which is weird to start with.
Apart from that the direct feel and pumping make them a winner. Do not like the semi rigid handles that are flat and wobble, hard carbon round ones are the biz.

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simonp said..
I recently had a couple of days at Hood River demoing Slingshot gear and tried out all three wings on offer (boom, hard and soft handles). I ride soft handles at home and that was what I ended up preferring. I like light wings that float when I release the back hand. I was also a bit paranoid about scratching the top of a brand new board with the handles or boom while doing stinkbug starts.
I initially had sore forearms with the hard handles and boom (called the Javelin) wing but I hadn't winged much lately and I was often well overpowered. All three wings handle the gusty Gorge conditions very well. I felt that the boom version was more efficient but it also had a tendency to flip upside down a bit more.

I've been riding a quiver of the Slingshot Javelins, I went back to my soft ( floppy) handle slinging V3 the other day to feel the difference.
I didn't enjoy it as much as I used too. It dropped away whilst gybing. I had just got used to it before getting the boom wings.
I too thought the boom would damage my board whilst stinkbug starting but I've not seen any damage yet and it's been a season.
I really like the boom, I don't like small diameter handles, I'm a tradie and have fairly large hands.
Wouldn't go back to soft if I had the choice.

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simonp said..
I recently had a couple of days at Hood River demoing Slingshot gear and tried out all three wings on offer (boom, hard and soft handles). I ride soft handles at home and that was what I ended up preferring. I like light wings that float when I release the back hand. I was also a bit paranoid about scratching the top of a brand new board with the handles or boom while doing stinkbug starts.
I initially had sore forearms with the hard handles and boom (called the Javelin) wing but I hadn't winged much lately and I was often well overpowered. All three wings handle the gusty Gorge conditions very well. I felt that the boom version was more efficient but it also had a tendency to flip upside down a bit more.

I've been riding a quiver of the Slingshot Javelins, I went back to my soft ( floppy) handle slinging V3 the other day to feel the difference.
I didn't enjoy it as much as I used too. It dropped away whilst gybing. I had just got used to it before getting the boom wings.
I too thought the boom would damage my board whilst stinkbug starting but I've not seen any damage yet and it's been a season.
I really like the boom, I don't like small diameter handles, I'm a tradie and have fairly large hands.
Wouldn't go back to soft if I had the choice.

Damn you guys aren't making it easy to decide My biggest concern is potential injury from ergonomics. At the moment I get sore fingers/ grip/ arm pump on my soft handles & hoping hard handles would help If I can find some demos I'll def try before buying.