Hi, currently I'm using the Sabfoil w1100 with s450 stab and 82cm mast.

The foil feels for me very sharp. Others are compared to that not sharp at all.

The question for me is, is there a compare foil out there, that is not that sharp and has at least the same performance.

I'm 70kg, and Wingsurf 90% on my lake. There are no waves, just little chop when the wind gets stronger.
I don't want to do freestyle. Just Slalom.
It should be as easy as possible to get on the foil in 8kn wind, (the lake is also very gusty and wind can be between 0 and 16kn sometimes)
If the wind gets stronger, like 15kn and more, I want to go fast. (yes most likely with another front wing)

What kind of foil combination would you recommend for me and my conditions?

I looked at Axis, but they have so many. And what about F-One?
From what I heard, ist they should also be very good.

And what benefit would have the carbon version for me and in my conditions compared to aluminum and or the FCT version?I haven't found any comparison about this, so maybe here is someone who had the chance to did this already.

As Wings, I will use F-One Strike 4.2 and 6.0 CMC, on a Quatro Wingdrifter Pro in 5"8
(will also look for smaller Board later) I can du pumping the board and wing a little. but I can't fly through a gybe or tack.

thank you
best regards

I can only really speak for F-One, but we have fast foils!

I have the Phantom 1480 in carbon and tried the 1080, 1780 and 940. My school has the Gravity 1800 & 2200 both in carbon and FCT constructions and the 1280 Phantom in FCT only. The F-One Carbon is a little less draggy and lighter, so will be both more easy to pump, more manouvrable and faster. The differences are small though, therefore the FCT is good for 90% of the people, especially if you're just getting into the sport. The fact that one can start out learning on a gravity 1800 and only has to replace the frontwing to move on to a Phantom is awesome. An additional downside of picking an FCT over the Carbon is that if you plan on switching to the carbon line you need to add a mast-fuselage connection piece (F-One calls it mastfoot) which you dont need for the FCT line. The FCT mast/fuselage junction will eat your mast if you're not carefull taking it apart though. If you wiggle it fore and aft too much to get the mast out of the socket it will leave marks on the leasing and trailing edge, but only on the part of the mast which is inside the fuselage when mounted, so if you were on the FCT and ever wanted to switch to the Carbon I'd just sell the whole FCT foil. The F-One carbon masts are also only compatible with the Carbon planes.

If you're looking to get out in 8 knots I'd go for a 1480cm2 Phantom as your main wing. To be honest, the 1280 would be better for your weight, and more easily matched with a smaller / fast front wing, but wont have the same low end. I do 10-12 knots with the Phantom 1480, 5m Strike and a lot of pumping with my 95Kg. My mate (75kg) is often on the 1280 those same days, but below 10 knots it might get a problem (thats not really the winging realm anyway right?). Ofcourse you have a bigger wing than me and are almost 25Kg lighter, that should be a big benefit in terms of early flight. The 1480 would probably not win you races though. My top speed on that wing is 49kph / 26 knots, but my average speed is closer to 30.

As for small wings, the pros use the F-One Escape 530 for the slalomraces & freestyle, in addition to the Phantom 840 and 940. Those small size Phantoms are quite different from the bigger ones with a much flatter / faster profile. The 1080 is not that much faster than the 1480 for example, mostly a lot less lifty because of the reduced surface. The 940 and 840 however, they're fast!

I'd say go 1480 & 940, if you still would want more performance you could always add the Escape 530 later.


I'll soon try my Levo 900 windfoil for the wing, that foil is bloody fast and efficient, 880cm2, high aspect (the highest aspect ratio in the entire F-One line) and very thin. Only thing is that with the monobloc carbon fuselages the front wing is quite far forward. I'll put it all the way in the back of the track and see if that works. I know Tituan Galea used the Levo900 for slalom & freestyle before the Phantoms were around. We just haven't had wind for weeks..

In the Axis world, the BSC wings are the all arounders most like your W1100

lots of good foils on the market if you want to ditch your SABFoil. You can also dull/sand your current foil if you're worried about cutting yourself. I personally sand down/round off pointy corners and unreasonably sharp trailing edges. Only takes 30 seconds to do this and gives me peace of mind.

thank you very much for the reply.
sorry I couldn't react earlier, but I got a broken finger the last time I went out WingFoiling., now I need to break at least 6 weeks according to the doctors. :(

in the meanwhile, Uwe Schr?der ( the guy from www.gleiten.tv ) went to my like for a wing foil session.
Having a talk with him, he mentioned for this lake the Axis BSC 970 would be the best for me.

He said this foil has an awesome fly time even in the kind of no wind. it is not the fastest, but it should lift me up quickly and should stay up also in maneuvers even when the wind drops.
He said the phantoms are awesome foils too, but they glide on the Axis is better. If I want max glide time on my lake, where you usually do a jibe in an area with less to no wind, there is nothing better than the Axis BSC 970.

He also said that the Axis 970 will be a lot easier than my current Sabfoil W1100 as it starts earlier, flies longer, and is a lot easier to gybe/jibe.

maybe the Kajura could be in the same range as the Axis, but its sharp edges seem to be a bit dangerous.
Once my broken finger is fixed, I can test the 970 and compare it with my current w1100 and then let's see, but I think he will be right.

at 70kg you are pretty light. If you are efficient it's possible all that area and foil thickness are overkill for you. If you want to glide through lulls, you want efficient low drag foil. you will also have to learn to get going through technique.

I personally love light wind... the kind of conditions where I go out on a 4m and have to wait minutes for a gust just to get going, and then the challenge is in staying foiling the entire time. For me, in conditions like this, my absolute go-to foil is the SABFoil W1000/647/400. Once you're up and going, it keeps gliding until you make a mistake. The turns are also very rewarding. If you have some gutless swell to ride, I will opt for the W940/700/370 combo. I actually think I get going earlier on the W1000 (987cm2) vs the W940 (1100cm2).

This W1000 is magical foil... maybe a little advanced for where you are right now (not foiling through jibes), but I have yet to ride something as fast and efficient... but I haven't ridden everything either.

FYI I'm 85kg on a 75l board... rig either 4m or 3.3m wing and just try to make it work in light wind. I have a 6m also, but only break it out if it's super light.

sunsetsailboards, that's great info. My current setup is W1100 + 483, but for higher winds and swell I want something better suited setup.
How do you compare the W1000 to W940, please? Turning and gliding and pumping in the gutless swell, and then in better waves, which one would you take for these, if you have already have the both wings, please?

Much appreciated!

I have two complete glider assemblies in my van:
-W1000/647/400
-W940/700HS/370
-well actually I have a 3rd Slingshot Phantasm PTM 926/710/400 but doesn't compare with the other two.

For flat water speed and glide I take the W1000.

For staying in the pocket on slower windswell I take the W940.

The W940 glider also has an easier pump but is less pitch stable. I was practicing heelside tacks in flat water the last two days and the W1000 just has more glide. I also find the carvy turn of the W1000 at higher speeds more fun on the W1000 in flat water. For flicky turns and pumping through turns on swell I prefer the W940 although both can do this. The biggest difference is that the W940 is at equilibrium at slower speeds like when riding slower swell. The W1000 prefers to be traveling at a higher speed and below a certain threshold it starts to slow down, whereas the W940 will be happy to just keep chugging at the lower speed.

There is a lot of overlap on these two gliders, so much so that I can ride either and be happy 99% of the time, but there are also noticeable differences... so much so that I value having both... and this is coming from someone who likes to ride the same thing every time, so this is a little bit new to me.

I rode some groundswell on a pretty good sized swell a couple weeks ago, and the control, stability, and speed of the W1000 was very appreciated. I would like the try the W940 in similar conditions.

For those of you who want more glide out of your W1100, I would consider the S470 stabilizer. The S483/S450 are pretty chunky. Also, the stock angle on the new 700HS fuselages is about .8 degrees less than with the 710 Surf Fuse... less angle will get you less drag. You can try a .5 or 1 degree shim put in backward to lessen the stab angle and see if that has any benefit.

www.sunsetsailboards.com/products/sab-foil-moses-s470-rear-wing-stabilizer

working on those pesky heelsides on the W940

www.instagram.com/p/CUdrjLgPIKa

Do you mean the Axis BSC970 is not an efficient low drag foil?

What Axis would you recommend, or only Sabfoils?

Hmm, I think I really need to test it. my local shop offered this to me once I can be back on the water.

will then also ask for the s470 and s583.
He also has Armstrong now, so maybe once I have time, I will compare all these foils in the same conditions.
Unfortunately, he didn't have F-one.

so let's consider more my level.
means once I become better, I will use smaller foils, also in lighter winds.
so a system that has good exchange options would matter.

Sabfoil is now everything on HS Fuse, I still have the old.
so need to rebuy.

Axis, have black and red Fuse.

Armstrong is all one System?

F-One. no Fuse. so higher-priced front wings.

You should consider Axis HPS,/ART at your weight. They are fast wings with insane glide, such as 830 for powered conditions, and the ART 999 for light/moderate winds. That's my current 2 wing quiver I run with my Strike wings (I'm 78kg).

The Fone Phantom look nice but they aren't that quick unless you go small. They are thick foils with only an AR of 6. Wished they released an HA series soon.

The Axis HPS1050 would be a good choice. It's the closest to what you currently have in the Axis black series. Haven't tried the BSC, but the 970 might be a good option as suggested. The 1050 my current light wind foil, and goto wing until about 17 or 18 knots. It's pumpable from the surface in pre-planing speed. I have a 1150 which is the light wind king but I almost never use that. The 1050 is a very versatile user friendly wing. It's easy to ride, but it also has a very good top end. I'm no speed freak, but I've taken it up to 35km/h. The thing about the HPS foils is they don't generate intense lift even when at speed so they can be pushed hard without getting the feeling things are about to explode. On the other hand it will glide for a long time and stay on foil almost until a standstill, so gives you loads of time to complete your transitions.

thanks a lot for the advice, I will also ask to test the HPS1050 then :)
what rear wing would you suggest?

let's see what I can do with all the stuff over here :),

What Armstrong foils would someone recommend me for testing?

I have Axis HPS 1150, 1050, 930 and currently trying the 880 and BCS 810, I am 76 kg.
I've owned many Moses wings including 1100, 950 and 790.
The Axis 1050 is way more efficient than the Moses 1100. I use the 1050 in 8 to 12 ish knots wind. The 930 also is an early flier.
Yesterday I was foiling in 8 to 15 knots and the day before in 20 to 25kn wind on the BCS 810 with 6.5 Slick windwing.
I'd suggest for 70kg the 930 and later smaller.

nice to hear,
hope my finger heals good so I can start testing in 6 weeks, to feel the difference :)

My current quiver is 2 sab gliders:
W1000/647/399
W945/700HS/370

Pretty happy with it, for light days and smaller waves I use W945, the 700HS fuse is way too heavy for what it does imho.
As long as there is enough wind my preferred choice is W1000/647/399, the only problem with this setup is the 2 mounting screws on the 647 fuse get loose after a good session, no matter how hard I screw it (some kind of resonance or hydromechanical effect), never had loose screws on 700HS though.

Check the mast/ fuse connection, it shouldn't be the screws holding the fuse in. My fuse is super tight, resistance holds it on.I almost have to get a hammer to knock it off the mast after my session

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waterlife said..
Check the mast/ fuse connection, it shouldn't be the screws holding the fuse in. My fuse is super tight, resistance holds it on.I almost have to get a hammer to knock it off the mast after my session

Yeah, it does "fuse" together after the session, have to hit at the tail pretty hard to disconnect, but the screws (especially the front one) are loose, didn't have any problems yet but there is a potential problem there with those loose screws, after hard wipeouts, jumps, etc.

I screw the fuse onto the mast medium decently tight, then press on the wingtips and stabilizer tips levering back and forth a few times then re-tighten the screws. Repeat one or two more times, and I find my screws are tight at the end of the session. The front screw isn't quite as tight as the rear screw, but it is still tight.

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sunsetsailboards said..
I screw the fuse onto the mast medium decently tight, then press on the wingtips and stabilizer tips levering back and forth a few times then re-tighten the screws. Repeat one or two more times, and I find my screws are tight at the end of the session. The front screw isn't quite as tight as the rear screw, but it is still tight.

I'll try the above next time, thanks for the tip!