I am about 18 months winging now, 86kg and have used Armstrong foils since starting. I'm comfortable with the 1250 and 1850, and have been using the MA 1000 a little, but it is not yet much fun. I wing mostly in flat water, mostly like to do surfy turns and just ride around and not fall off. I am starting to pump and ride swells, but not very well, yet. I have not had the opportunity to demo any foils, but considering getting another brand. This is not to say I don't like Armstrong , just don't want to miss out on better or more comfortable equipment. I'm somewhat drawn to mikes lab, f one, f4, so wonder if anyone out there has used Armstrong and is now using another brand?

If not done so yet use the 205 stab, makes a surprising difference to all those foils

you wing only? you are on the right brand.

'm 90 kgs and have sailed the 1250, 1850 and MA1000 tons. The MA1000 is "not yet much fun"? Surprising to read as it's both fast and surfy. Is it the glide aspect you're missing? Have you played with tails or different length fuses to get different feels? There's a fair bit of tuning that can be done to get the Armie rig tuned to taste before needing to look elsewhere. Having said that, lots of other great options. I was recently pretty blown away by the feel of the Omen 850 rig. Fone and Unifoil looking great too...

I still have my armstrong setup, hs1250 hs1550v2 hs1850. but im riding a fone seven7 1400 the foil is pretty good and easy perf.
Aluminium mast is good and cheap , you feel a little wooble if you are passing wave but it's barely noticeable , in france this is the best selling value used despite a large amount of used gear.
sorry for my english as im french.

I owned a whole quiver of HS Armstrong foils. Before the MA days. I'm now on the GT GoFoils with the v2 mast. What you describe wanting, is exactly what I wanted too. Simply suggest you find a GT-1250 to compare to your HS1250 and you decide. The GT-1770 compared to your HS1850. Both with the FTL-17 tail for maximum surfing. Even with the 1250, try the 17 tail. It will let you pump out of anything. Just be aware, your board might not be compatible with GoFoil. Needs track way, way, back.

Lot of happy customers in the North Sonar thread. The HA1050 is a real pleasure to ride on flatwater. Fast, stable, turns super good, lots of glide etc top quality finish. If you have the opportunity to test..

Experts like James Casey talk about maximising your equipment before looking elsewhere.

The MA 1000 is one of the most fun foils on the market and can be used for exactly what you describe. I do all of that on the 1000. But the caveat is user experience determines the level of enjoyment and not only equipment. For example, until you know how to pump the foil properly, you are not getting the most out of it. Proper pump technique helped me to unlock the foil.

I agree with the 205 stab comment.

You didn't mention what mast you are on. If you want to spend money, invest in a performance mast.

also to add anyone comparing another brand to the armstrong HS line is like comparing a new car to something built in the 90s. Things have well and truly moved on. you say you mainly wing flat water . then all brands currently mentioned will do the job nicely.

Regardless of brand, going from older low aspect foils to a newer higher aspect design is going to test your skills. I switched from the 1550v2 to the MA 1250 and 1750 the last few months and really like the speed and performance of the new MA foils. But it does require a different technique and skillset compared to the HS foils and it took me a good 1-2 months to feel comfortable on them. I've kept the 1550v2 but it feels very slow in comparison... fun to turn on the flat water and super stable which makes it good to practice foot switches, but otherwise i try to use the MAs whenever i can.

Personally, i would stick with what you have, and get practice and get better with the MA1000. It's the latest design so I don't think you're missing out on something 'better'.

Most of the gear out here now has excellent performance even if there are big differences in quality between brands and materials, each rider is going to click with different gear in different ways. Most of the gear moves relatively well from flat water to swell but listening to Alex Aguira talking about his GT foils, as another poster recommended, he is most definitely getting stoked riding flat water, swells and waves. Foil size does though (as we all know anyway) need to be matched to wind conditions and wave size and speed, a 1750 in the right conditions will feel great but in the wrong conditions will be a struggle ( so the benefit of having a larger quiver and tails to play with too ) These days if people feel they are running out of tuning options on their current gear I suggest making a small degree mast shim about 0 - 1.5/2mm can really open up riding conditions and let you exploit the last 10 percent of your
current setup - that's been my experience anyways

and tails. themselves make a huge difference - even before shimming.

There is some interesting feedback on the MA1000 on the progression forum and it should help you understand its positives and weaknesses. For reference Mike Pedigo came third in the pro surf pump foil race in florida and is an excellent pumper so don't be too hard on yourself.
forum.progressionproject.com/t/armstrong-ma-series-vs-unifoil-progression/1773

For winging in waves the so called medium aspect foils from all brands make some sense with their condensed wingspan for their area combined with plenty of wave power to control. But for winging in chop and no waves it is hard not to crave the glide and pump of a much higher aspect foil from any brand in my opinion, unless you are in the heavy weight range, and then the bigger so called medium aspect foils might suffice.

Don't jump ship, but if you do, consider Sabfoil's Razor line. Wonderful in the waves and on flat water alike. It's surfy, and super user friendly too.

What's the deal with pumping, why is it important? I wing only.

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patronus said..
What's the deal with pumping, why is it important? I wing only.

Good pumping technique lets you use a wing two sizes smaller. If you always wing in really steady wind and like being well powered (I do), maybe that does not matter. But at the vast majority of places I've been on the water, the wind is variable. If it increases, "well powered" quickly becomes overpowered; even if you can still control the wing, the fun factor drops. If the wind drops, you'll spend time waiting for gusts while someone with better pumping technique is foiling all the time.

Personally, I don't mind using a larger wing, but there are plenty of wingers who think a smaller wing is more fun, even if that means more pumping and requires more pumping skills. But I see the disadvantage of my rather limited pumping skills every day on the water, when better wingers use a smaller wing and still foil more, and can play with waves harder, jump, and try tricks because they can get going again more easily after crashes.

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patronus said..
What's the deal with pumping, why is it important? I wing only.

I wing upwind, then surf downwind. Surfing downwind is when you get to pump around and have the most fun.

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patronus said..
What's the deal with pumping, why is it important? I wing only.

Pumping allows you to ride cool foils and cool boards in lighter wind, without having to be overpowered by a huge wing. And even more importantly, pumping the foil teaches you a lot about how the foil behaves. Different foils prefer different pumping styles. Good skills to have, and winging is the easiest way how to learn it.

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Taavi said..

patronus said..
What's the deal with pumping, why is it important? I wing only.

Pumping allows you to ride cool foils and cool boards in lighter wind, without having to be overpowered by a huge wing. And even more importantly, pumping the foil teaches you a lot about how the foil behaves. Different foils prefer different pumping styles. Good skills to have, and winging is the easiest way how to learn it.

Is that a KT drifter slim in the video?

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oskarhhh said..

Taavi said..

patronus said..
What's the deal with pumping, why is it important? I wing only.

Pumping allows you to ride cool foils and cool boards in lighter wind, without having to be overpowered by a huge wing. And even more importantly, pumping the foil teaches you a lot about how the foil behaves. Different foils prefer different pumping styles. Good skills to have, and winging is the easiest way how to learn it.

Is that a KT drifter slim in the video?

Yes, 5'0''

How do you like it winging ? Do you prone surf it as well?

Many thanks to all for your inputs/advice. My situation is somewhat unique, I wing for 9 months in Florida, light winds, flat water, then spend 3 months in the Columbia gorge. Happy with 1850/60/195/72 set up for light winds, recently made a downwind board, which, as you've read, is a breakthrough for light wind foiling. Here at the gorge, been struggling.can't use the 72 in the chop/ swells, have been using an original 85 (from eBay) but neither the 1850 or 1250 seem right.

unexpectedly today, I got to demo an F4, 1200 wing, my first non Armstrong set up. This turned out to be a lot of fun, stable yet turns well enough, and I was able to go 40 minutes without coming off of foil, my idea of a good session. So now, have to decide whether to upgrade Armstrong with a performance mast, or just buy this F4?

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oskarhhh said..
How do you like it winging ? Do you prone surf it as well?

@oskarhhh It's amazing for winging, haven't used it for a while though. And I haven't learned to prone unfortunately.

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Taavi said..

oskarhhh said..
How do you like it winging ? Do you prone surf it as well?

@oskarhhh It's amazing for winging, haven't used it for a while though. And I haven't learned to prone unfortunately.

Sounds great thanks!

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wsurfdoc4 said..
Many thanks to all for your inputs/advice. My situation is somewhat unique, I wing for 9 months in Florida, light winds, flat water, then spend 3 months in the Columbia gorge. Happy with 1850/60/195/72 set up for light winds, recently made a downwind board, which, as you've read, is a breakthrough for light wind foiling. Here at the gorge, been struggling.can't use the 72 in the chop/ swells, have been using an original 85 (from eBay) but neither the 1850 or 1250 seem right.

unexpectedly today, I got to demo an F4, 1200 wing, my first non Armstrong set up. This turned out to be a lot of fun, stable yet turns well enough, and I was able to go 40 minutes without coming off of foil, my idea of a good session. So now, have to decide whether to upgrade Armstrong with a performance mast, or just buy this F4?

F4 has a very good offer with their GP series. It is indeed a very good set of HA foils which are very forgiving and very well priced. I'm in the sam boat (Armstrong rider with 85 A+ mast) and can't quite get over the cost of adding a performance mast + some wing.

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Taavi said..
Don't jump ship, but if you do, consider Sabfoil's Razor line. Wonderful in the waves and on flat water alike. It's surfy, and super user friendly too.

Stylish riding! good advert for the kit, and your riding. wish I could do that!

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wsurfdoc4 said..
Many thanks to all for your inputs/advice. My situation is somewhat unique, I wing for 9 months in Florida, light winds, flat water, then spend 3 months in the Columbia gorge. Happy with 1850/60/195/72 set up for light winds, recently made a downwind board, which, as you've read, is a breakthrough for light wind foiling. Here at the gorge, been struggling.can't use the 72 in the chop/ swells, have been using an original 85 (from eBay) but neither the 1850 or 1250 seem right.

unexpectedly today, I got to demo an F4, 1200 wing, my first non Armstrong set up. This turned out to be a lot of fun, stable yet turns well enough, and I was able to go 40 minutes without coming off of foil, my idea of a good session. So now, have to decide whether to upgrade Armstrong with a performance mast, or just buy this F4?

until you ride / try an armstrong foil that is less than three years old not sure you can decide. you could step on to literally any foil brand made in the last year or so and it will be stable and turn well. etc etc.

Kept the demo F4 over the weekend, 3 sessions. For me ,it seems more solid, stable, easier to use than my current Armstrong kit, and since I don't have the current option of a performance mast demo, will go ahead and buy the F4, the whole kit is only about $300 US more than the performance mast.