Hey everyone! Hope opening a new thread is okay as I didn't find a recent one that would've fit my question. I'm looking into getting a new wingboard to replace my f-one rocket wing 5'0 with 60L of volume. I've beed using this board for all conditions from 8 to 35 knots. For my new board I'd be looking for a little better low end allowing me to ride a bit smaller foils in the very low windrange as in my homespot the wind typically is rather low (8-15 usually). Previously I used the 60L board with a 1500 Pumpfoil and a 5.5 Wing in the very low conditions.

So for my new Board I've been having an eye on the 2024 Gong Cruzader Point modell as it has been reduced in price due to the release of the new models.
Board: www.gong-galaxy.com/en/products/gong-wing-foil-board-cruzader-point-fsp-pro?variant=48030791401791

I'd be looking at the 5'2 XL version with 67L Volume. I feel like this would give me a little boost in the low end through the more narrow shape and the little extra Volume while still being relatively compact. I weigh 70Kgs naked.

So before purchasing i'd be interested in getting some opinions:
1) Do you think the shape & size make sense?
2) Has anyone made a similar transition with their boards? Did you notice an improvement in the low end? It's hard to find experiences from people using small ML boards around their bodyweight.

Appreciate any hints, thank you very much!

I'm on the 5'6 XL, and at 77kg the 87 liters is just enough to slog around underpowered and wait for a gust to get going - I can get going earlier in perfectly flat water, as its easier to build speed, but in general I don't really go sub 12/13 knots anymore. These lower wind conditions are just too much hassle to get going, as the wind is kind of gutless without decent pressure in the wing, and that combined with the chop that already forms at my spot usually it's just a pain to get flying (1300 foil + 5.5 wing). That being said, the Cruzader shape is a huge improvement to get on foil earlier (coming from an 85L Lethal), as the board builds speed much easier and faster. However, if you want to ride comfortably in sub 12 knots on a smaller foil and a 5.5m, I wouldn't go negative on the volume to be honest, especially if you're also dealing with chop. I think there a true super efficient lightwind board (so not the XL version) +20l would be the best option. Other factors to keep in mind here are what you mean by "smaller foil"? For example 1200 is smaller than 1500 but is still pretty big for your weight, so this will still get you up early. And if you are riding in perfectly flat water (e.g. offshore winds on a lake) then you will get up much easier also.

So to conclude: your low end will improve for sure with the 5'2 Cruzader, but don't expect to unlock full LW capabilities on a smaller foil with it either in sub 12 knots. Perhaps keep your current board for windier days and add a bigger Cruzader to your quiver for true low wind days? If you only want 1 board and still want to be on a smallish board with a bit better low end, go for Cruzader +10L or so. If you're talking about sizing down to a 1200 foil in perfectly flat water, the 5'2 might do the trick with good pumping technique and a little gust to get going.

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strekke said..
I'm on the 5'6 XL, and at 77kg the 87 liters is just enough to slog around underpowered and wait for a gust to get going - I can get going earlier in perfectly flat water, as its easier to build speed, but in general I don't really go sub 12/13 knots anymore. These lower wind conditions are just too much hassle to get going, as the wind is kind of gutless without decent pressure in the wing, and that combined with the chop that already forms at my spot usually it's just a pain to get flying (1300 foil + 5.5 wing). That being said, the Cruzader shape is a huge improvement to get on foil earlier (coming from an 85L Lethal), as the board builds speed much easier and faster. However, if you want to ride comfortably in sub 12 knots on a smaller foil and a 5.5m, I wouldn't go negative on the volume to be honest, especially if you're also dealing with chop. I think there a true super efficient lightwind board (so not the XL version) +20l would be the best option. Other factors to keep in mind here are what you mean by "smaller foil"? For example 1200 is smaller than 1500 but is still pretty big for your weight, so this will still get you up early. And if you are riding in perfectly flat water (e.g. offshore winds on a lake) then you will get up much easier also.

So to conclude: your low end will improve for sure with the 5'2 Cruzader, but don't expect to unlock full LW capabilities on a smaller foil with it either in sub 12 knots. Perhaps keep your current board for windier days and add a bigger Cruzader to your quiver for true low wind days? If you only want 1 board and still want to be on a smallish board with a bit better low end, go for Cruzader +10L or so. If you're talking about sizing down to a 1200 foil in perfectly flat water, the 5'2 might do the trick with good pumping technique and a little gust to get going.

Wow thank you so much for the detailed answer! I think you are confirming what I already kind of expected. A little bit better low end but not a real low wind board that would allow to use foils sub 1000cm^2 in the very light. That would actually be okay for me. I'm often travelling to spots by public transit / train and 5'2 is kind of the maximum length I can comfortably do this with so that is a huge bonus for me.

What you are describing is actually the case for my conditions: When the wind is very low, the water is very flat on our lakes. And I'm used to being submerged down to the hips and waiting for a gust from my current board so I'm not that worried about that.

What benefits are there of having a small board for winging?

More maneuverable and responsive. Lower swing weight, more connected to the foil, lighter, etc... Tradeoff is that its worse at slogging and less efficient for takeoffs.

I think a ML to be good in low wind, it needs to have some lenght...and probably over 6'.It needs to be narrow as well, but not extra-narrow, 19-21 would be fine...going narrower than this I don't see the point.You would not buy/build such a board for foil over 100-105 cm span.I find ML and DW works a lot better with smaller foil vs larger foil.I would not buy a ML for a 1500 pump foil, the narrow shape will be hard to provide input to the foil.My 2 cents for what it worth.

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Velocicraptor said..
More maneuverable and responsive. Lower swing weight, more connected to the foil, lighter, etc... Tradeoff is that its worse at slogging and less efficient for takeoffs.

Yeah ok. It's been a while since I rode a shortboard. I'm struggling to get off my long DW board & go back to my smaller boards as I can do pretty much everything all the other (mortal) shortboarders are doing around me with the benefit of getting a couple of laps in while they are slogging to get up. Maybe I'm just getting too lazy.

Do the new mid length boards bob around like OG shortboards front & back & side to side? I've never seen one but interested to hear if they are similar.

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Microsurfer said..

Yeah ok. It's been a while since I rode a shortboard. I'm struggling to get off my long DW board & go back to my smaller boards as I can do pretty much everything all the other (mortal) shortboarders are doing around me with the benefit of getting a couple of laps in while they are slogging to get up. Maybe I'm just getting too lazy.

A different personal opinion here. I had 5 sessions on a DW board while on holidays; tried it in different conditions and compared it to my standard board (a 2024 5.2 board). It is marginally easier to get on foil with a DW board but the experience of riding a shorter, more nimble board is just so much more rewarding. Everyone is getting better at winging at this stage. I have long 30-45 minutes runs, constantly tacking and jibing with no falls. Enjoying nice tacks and other elements while flying a smaller board is so much more important to me. As I almost do not feel the shorter board and as I try to "ride the foil" directly instead, I would not want to trade it for the marginal ease of getting up on foil a few short times during the session. Moving a DW board around for 2.5 hours (my average session) just was not fun. I can live with the extra pumps I need to get up. But again, that's just me.

I do not mean it as a critique of ML boards. They of course have their use in very light wind conditions or in downwinding.

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JohnnyDepp said..

Microsurfer said..

Yeah ok. It's been a while since I rode a shortboard. I'm struggling to get off my long DW board & go back to my smaller boards as I can do pretty much everything all the other (mortal) shortboarders are doing around me with the benefit of getting a couple of laps in while they are slogging to get up. Maybe I'm just getting too lazy.

A different personal opinion here. I had 5 sessions on a DW board while on holidays; tried it in different conditions and compared it to my standard board (a 2024 5.2 board). It is marginally easier to get on foil with a DW board but the experience of riding a shorter, more nimble board is just so much more rewarding. Everyone is getting better at winging at this stage. I have long 30-45 minutes runs, constantly tacking and jibing with no falls. Enjoying nice tacks and other elements while flying a smaller board is so much more important to me. As I almost do not feel the shorter board and as I try to "ride the foil" directly instead, I would not want to trade it for the marginal ease of getting up on foil a few short times during the session. Moving a DW board around for 2.5 hours (my average session) just was not fun. I can live with the extra pumps I need to get up. But again, that's just me.

I do not mean it as a critique of ML boards. They of course have their use in very light wind conditions or in downwinding.

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JohnnyDepp said..

Microsurfer said..

Yeah ok. It's been a while since I rode a shortboard. I'm struggling to get off my long DW board & go back to my smaller boards as I can do pretty much everything all the other (mortal) shortboarders are doing around me with the benefit of getting a couple of laps in while they are slogging to get up. Maybe I'm just getting too lazy.

A different personal opinion here. I had 5 sessions on a DW board while on holidays; tried it in different conditions and compared it to my standard board (a 2024 5.2 board). It is marginally easier to get on foil with a DW board but the experience of riding a shorter, more nimble board is just so much more rewarding. Everyone is getting better at winging at this stage. I have long 30-45 minutes runs, constantly tacking and jibing with no falls. Enjoying nice tacks and other elements while flying a smaller board is so much more important to me. As I almost do not feel the shorter board and as I try to "ride the foil" directly instead, I would not want to trade it for the marginal ease of getting up on foil a few short times during the session. Moving a DW board around for 2.5 hours (my average session) just was not fun. I can live with the extra pumps I need to get up. But again, that's just me.

I do not mean it as a critique of ML boards. They of course have their use in very light wind conditions or in downwinding.

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JohnnyDepp said..

Microsurfer said..

Yeah ok. It's been a while since I rode a shortboard. I'm struggling to get off my long DW board & go back to my smaller boards as I can do pretty much everything all the other (mortal) shortboarders are doing around me with the benefit of getting a couple of laps in while they are slogging to get up. Maybe I'm just getting too lazy.

A different personal opinion here. I had 5 sessions on a DW board while on holidays; tried it in different conditions and compared it to my standard board (a 2024 5.2 board). It is marginally easier to get on foil with a DW board but the experience of riding a shorter, more nimble board is just so much more rewarding. Everyone is getting better at winging at this stage. I have long 30-45 minutes runs, constantly tacking and jibing with no falls. Enjoying nice tacks and other elements while flying a smaller board is so much more important to me. As I almost do not feel the shorter board and as I try to "ride the foil" directly instead, I would not want to trade it for the marginal ease of getting up on foil a few short times during the session. Moving a DW board around for 2.5 hours (my average session) just was not fun. I can live with the extra pumps I need to get up. But again, that's just me.

I do not mean it as a critique of ML boards. They of course have their use in very light wind conditions or in downwinding.

I agree with you, I sold my dw board, yes it got up on foil easy and you could have light wind session but I never liked the feel, always felt the length and was very happy to jump to my sinker asap. Now I have 2 boards, a 6'8" x 25 for sup foil in the waves (not dw) and a 60l (soon to be replaced with a 57l) 4'11 x 21". When light the sinker is hard work, I sometimes wing the sup but most of the time I just wait for a gust and get up on the sinker.
for reference I am 88kg and my larger wing is 4.8m, only ride 2 front foils, Armstrong ha 780 and ma 800. Trying to have less gear and keep it simple. Many people, including good riders like mid lengths and dw boards for winging.I know they re not for me. So many options, you have to try and see what works for you and where do you want to compromise.

Have you ever noticed how the longer you have a piece of gear, the better you get to know it and the more "capabilities" are unlocked? I think this is the same for any board length/volume combo. To get the most out of a DW board for winging you really want to have access to a full line of foils and wings which most of us don't have. To get the most out of a short, sinker board, you've got to get out there and embrace the suck as you learn how to become more precise with your water starts. It's gusty where I live and I value smaller wings above all else so I've always leaned towards length and volume so I don't get stranded.

At 86kg:
When I rode a downwind board I rode an 850 foil with a 3.5m wing as my lightwind kit down to 13 knots.
With my midlength I typically stay on a 1050 and 4m until I get closer to 20 knots. (finally broke down and got a 5m for the sub 13 knot days because I was going to blow out my shoulder fighting up onto foil in the lighter stuff).
With my sinker, I pretty much don't consider it until it hits 20 knots but then, interestingly enough, I really like the 1050 in up to 30 knots on that board. It's significantly lighter with a different deck shape that really lets me maximize the 1050. However, when it's nuking and I take my 750 out on that sinker board I don't see any significant performance benefits over my slightly heavier board, it some ways I feel negatives.

It's all wildly nuanced and you can have heaps of fun on any kit, especially once you get to know it and can pair it with the right wing and foil.

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JohnnyDepp said..

Microsurfer said..

Yeah ok. It's been a while since I rode a shortboard. I'm struggling to get off my long DW board & go back to my smaller boards as I can do pretty much everything all the other (mortal) shortboarders are doing around me with the benefit of getting a couple of laps in while they are slogging to get up. Maybe I'm just getting too lazy.

A different personal opinion here. I had 5 sessions on a DW board while on holidays; tried it in different conditions and compared it to my standard board (a 2024 5.2 board). It is marginally easier to get on foil with a DW board but the experience of riding a shorter, more nimble board is just so much more rewarding. Everyone is getting better at winging at this stage. I have long 30-45 minutes runs, constantly tacking and jibing with no falls. Enjoying nice tacks and other elements while flying a smaller board is so much more important to me. As I almost do not feel the shorter board and as I try to "ride the foil" directly instead, I would not want to trade it for the marginal ease of getting up on foil a few short times during the session. Moving a DW board around for 2.5 hours (my average session) just was not fun. I can live with the extra pumps I need to get up. But again, that's just me.

I do not mean it as a critique of ML boards. They of course have their use in very light wind conditions or in downwinding.

Ah yes. If I could stay on foil for that long I'd definitely see the advantages of a short board. If I'm not on foil I'm not having fun. At my stage I'm blowing a lot of moves so getting started is a big priority.