To all the engineers and designers out here I wonder why the standard for wings isn't to have 3 bladders
centre strut, leading edge right, leading edge left
for a very small increase in weight and cost assuming you only ever get one puncture in one bladder at a time, 2/3 of the wing remains operable at any one incident ( I can see that you would lose in stiffness at the junction though - is that the main reason?)
and as far as maintenance and repair goes - it seems it would be way easier - these leading edge bladders are humungous, however I have seen some kite repair and those bladders seem even longer - you need a glider hanger to blow them up in!
Just wondering...

You would need an additional hose running from one leading edge bladder to the other for inflation purposes. This would need to run across where your front handle is, not a desired option. You could use an internal octopus system, but let's not revisit that pile of crap.
You couldn't pump up the leading edge bladders individually as the first one would pop before you got the second inflated.

As Airsail has said, splitting the leading edge would require additional internal panels, additional valves, more bladder material, additional zips etc etc...
All adding more cost and more weight.
Yes the bladders are pretty large for wings but nothing compared to replacing the bladder for a 17m or 19m light wind kite.
Most of the issues with burst bladders with wings happen from either hanging them up to dry, and the bladder falls away from the leading edge tip, or if it has a strut ,from the head of the strut or the tip of the strut.
You then go to the beach, inflate the wing, but there is gap between the bladder and the casing. The bladder then herniates to try and fill the void and bang, its repair time.
The other common issue with blowouts is creating twists. Usually while trying to get every cubic cm of air out to get the wing into a bag that is too small. This was more evident on the earlier wings where they were supplied with the equivalent of a windsurfing sail bag, and only would fit inside when folded from the factory.
Deflate the wing and allow the air to mostly escape, then perform a loose square fold.
If the wing is wet and you need it to dry (fresh water sailing), to prevent mould growth. Either inflate back at home in the garage , or lay it flat to dry, don't hang it uninflated.
Most reputable kites shops or wing retailers can fit a replacement bladder for a fee. We do a 1/2 price fitting with your assistance and show you how to get it in first time (mostly), and show you how to check for twists before fully inflating.
And if you think that its complicated now, the first set of duotone wings didn't have a zip, so you had to get the bladder to run straight and twist free, by pulling from wing tip, to the the other. on top of this inflate valve was on the opposite side of the leading edge, that repair will make you a 'little bit sweary'.

On a side note if you do fit a replacement yourself, and manage to get it in and twist free, remember to do the zip up before you inflate, you would not believe the number of bladders that have been painstaking repaired , fitted and refitted to only become beyond repair because of a forgotten zip!

ASWA

I have a single strut kite and it has a one piece bladder ie, leading edge and strut is one piece ??

Select to expand quote

ActionSportsWA said..
As Airsail has said, splitting the leading edge would require additional internal panels, additional valves, more bladder material, additional zips etc etc...
All adding more cost and more weight.
Yes the bladders are pretty large for wings but nothing compared to replacing the bladder for a 17m or 19m light wind kite.
Most of the issues with burst bladders with wings happen from either hanging them up to dry, and the bladder falls away from the leading edge tip, or if it has a strut ,from the head of the strut or the tip of the strut.
You then go to the beach, inflate the wing, but there is gap between the bladder and the casing. The bladder then herniates to try and fill the void and bang, its repair time.
The other common issue with blowouts is creating twists. Usually while trying to get every cubic cm of air out to get the wing into a bag that is too small. This was more evident on the earlier wings where they were supplied with the equivalent of a windsurfing sail bag, and only would fit inside when folded from the factory.
Deflate the wing and allow the air to mostly escape, then perform a loose square fold.
If the wing is wet and you need it to dry (fresh water sailing), to prevent mould growth. Either inflate back at home in the garage , or lay it flat to dry, don't hang it uninflated.
Most reputable kites shops or wing retailers can fit a replacement bladder for a fee. We do a 1/2 price fitting with your assistance and show you how to get it in first time (mostly), and show you how to check for twists before fully inflating.
And if you think that its complicated now, the first set of duotone wings didn't have a zip, so you had to get the bladder to run straight and twist free, by pulling from wing tip, to the the other. on top of this inflate valve was on the opposite side of the leading edge, that repair will make you a 'little bit sweary'.

On a side note if you do fit a replacement yourself, and manage to get it in and twist free, remember to do the zip up before you inflate, you would not believe the number of bladders that have been painstaking repaired , fitted and refitted to only become beyond repair because of a forgotten zip!

ASWA

Select to expand quote

ActionSportsWA said..
As Airsail has said, splitting the leading edge would require additional internal panels, additional valves, more bladder material, additional zips etc etc...
All adding more cost and more weight.
Yes the bladders are pretty large for wings but nothing compared to replacing the bladder for a 17m or 19m light wind kite.
Most of the issues with burst bladders with wings happen from either hanging them up to dry, and the bladder falls away from the leading edge tip, or if it has a strut ,from the head of the strut or the tip of the strut.
You then go to the beach, inflate the wing, but there is gap between the bladder and the casing. The bladder then herniates to try and fill the void and bang, its repair time.
The other common issue with blowouts is creating twists. Usually while trying to get every cubic cm of air out to get the wing into a bag that is too small. This was more evident on the earlier wings where they were supplied with the equivalent of a windsurfing sail bag, and only would fit inside when folded from the factory.
Deflate the wing and allow the air to mostly escape, then perform a loose square fold.
If the wing is wet and you need it to dry (fresh water sailing), to prevent mould growth. Either inflate back at home in the garage , or lay it flat to dry, don't hang it uninflated.
Most reputable kites shops or wing retailers can fit a replacement bladder for a fee. We do a 1/2 price fitting with your assistance and show you how to get it in first time (mostly), and show you how to check for twists before fully inflating.
And if you think that its complicated now, the first set of duotone wings didn't have a zip, so you had to get the bladder to run straight and twist free, by pulling from wing tip, to the the other. on top of this inflate valve was on the opposite side of the leading edge, that repair will make you a 'little bit sweary'.

On a side note if you do fit a replacement yourself, and manage to get it in and twist free, remember to do the zip up before you inflate, you would not believe the number of bladders that have been painstaking repaired , fitted and refitted to only become beyond repair because of a forgotten zip!

ASWA

Hi guys at ASWA is it okay to pack a wet wing that has been in salt water away with out drying it out cheers Rich

The better question for me, when are we going to see bladder-less wings?
I did get to speak to one wing company about it and while materials wise they thought it is achievable,
engineering wise they thought it would be very hard to tackle.

What are your thoughts? Do you think we should push manufacturers to go bladder-less?

Select to expand quote

burchas said..
The better question for me, when are we going to see bladder-less wings?
I did get to speak to one wing company about it and while materials wise they thought it is achievable,
engineering wise they thought it would be very hard to tackle.

What are your thoughts? Do you think we should push manufacturers to go bladder-less?

Be careful what you wish for. Currently if you get a leak, you can repair or replace a bladder. Bladderless, what repair would be possible? Would it involve returning to the manufacturer?

Great info, of course I was thinking there would be an inner 'panel' between bladders, and one valve per bladder rather than a hose system, I have noticed that some manufacturers make 'beefier' bladders than others, I find the SIC one's to be thicker in general.
I have noticed that bladders suffer abrasion at certain points in the wing and this can also lead to those 'fragile' puffy spots that ASWA was mentioning. Sounds like you guys are getting a lot of mileage out of your wings, I find mine wear pretty fast, but they do get used a lot!

The fragile puffy spots is herniation, so there has been a void and the bladder has 'swelled' to try and fill the gap between the end or edge of the bladder or it has developed a twist. Kiters tend to a bit more gentle and have usually learned from a bladder failure, wingers who have come from windsurfing tend to a little bit harder on the gear because they have not used inflatables before.
On the salt water/fresh water you are way more likely to get mould spores in fresh water or in the air and they love a damp dark environment, its pretty easy to put you wet wing or kite away and come back to it a month later to find it like a slab of stilton cheese.
the salt water seems to impede the mould growth so it might be a bit like a wet dog, but generally not mouldy. Hundreds of kiters have come back to a kite that was wet at the end of the last session of the season, forgotten about and 4 months later its just wet salty and sandy
ASWA

Select to expand quote

airsail said..

burchas said..
The better question for me, when are we going to see bladder-less wings?
I did get to speak to one wing company about it and while materials wise they thought it is achievable,
engineering wise they thought it would be very hard to tackle.

What are your thoughts? Do you think we should push manufacturers to go bladder-less?

Be careful what you wish for. Currently if you get a leak, you can repair or replace a bladder. Bladderless, what repair would be possible? Would it involve returning to the manufacturer?

That's part of the engineering problem.
I was thinking of similar methods to fixing a tubeless tire.
if executed right, could be a lot less involved than fixing bladders.

I wish they could get rid of bladders, no end of trouble with F-One. They tried fixing it, said they would replace but 3+ months on still got faulty wing :-(.