Advice for board options to suit Sabfoil foils...

Current board 110L. Running the w945 and w950 with the old 710 surf fuse and M82 mast. I put the mast 3cm forward of the tracks using the second row of mast bolt holes. Works really well, balanced, and I'm happy with it.

BUT the board doesn't work with the "new" (discontinued) 700HS surf fuse or the old 647 kite fuse (for W1000/W1110 front wings).

So, I'm looking for a smaller board 90ish litre (I'm 75kg) with the tracks in the right spot for all the above. I know this is still quite "big" but I'm not ready for the sinker yet.

Any brands/models I should be focusing in on? I'm aware of the Armie FG's and they look great.

AK Phazer 5.8/5.6 works fine with that combo! Plenty of space in the track to the front and back.
My first board was a Fanatic 5.8x110l with the boxxes way too far to the back (didn't know that then), and had the same problem like you when changing from low aspect foils like the GF Maliko and IWA to more modern foils. So after some searching I came out with the AK.
I used to like a lot of frontfoot pressure and even The W1000 still has space in the front left, while a foil like the Kujira1210 (lot of forward lift) can go far enough to he back. Noawadays i,m more evenly balanced and never need the outer range of the box. Besides that, the board is light, very quick up to plane and feels smaller as it size suggest. I have it for 1.5y/aprox 200 sessions and no soft spots etc etc. All it needed was just 1 small repair on the bottom because I probably did hit something.
The difference between the 5.8 of last year and the 5.6 are very little, so If you can find a last year model cheap its a steal.
(In europe an German onlines hop Keppler sells them for 760,- exc shipping).
Masttrack Fanatic 5.8x110 vs AK 5.8x90l:

Thanks. I'm heading that way very soon (Spain, Belgium) so will do some research.

I have no deal or whatsoever with them, but they exists for at least 25 year+ and when I order there something communication is really really short. But when you can live with that they often have stuff for great prices.
Link: www.surfkeppler.de/AK-Phazer-Reflex-Carbon-raw-carbon-look-optic_1

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natho6026961 said..
Advice for board options to suit Sabfoil foils...

Current board 110L. Running the w945 and w950 with the old 710 surf fuse and M82 mast. I put the mast 3cm forward of the tracks using the second row of mast bolt holes. Works really well, balanced, and I'm happy with it.

BUT the board doesn't work with the "new" (discontinued) 700HS surf fuse or the old 647 kite fuse (for W1000/W1110 front wings).

So, I'm looking for a smaller board 90ish litre (I'm 75kg) with the tracks in the right spot for all the above. I know this is still quite "big" but I'm not ready for the sinker yet.

Any brands/models I should be focusing in on? I'm aware of the Armie FG's and they look great.

You can try ONE 5ft x 26 x 90L www.oneoceansportsaustralia.com/shop/wind-wing-boards
As long as you are in Australia we have them with tracks forward or tracks back so they can suit pretty much any foil and for the constructions we do they are way cheaper than anything close to the weight and strength and all in stock now so no waiting.

I run the ensis rock n roll 57L with my sab foils.. I like even foot pressure and have my foil all the way forward in the tracks.

If your all the way up the front of your board tracks the next option is to run more shim on your stabilizer. That will allow you to move your mast backwards I'm currently running 1.5 degs

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paul.j said..

You can try ONE 5ft x 26 x 90L www.oneoceansportsaustralia.com/shop/wind-wing-boards
As long as you are in Australia we have them with tracks forward or tracks back so they can suit pretty much any foil and for the constructions we do they are way cheaper than anything close to the weight and strength and all in stock now so no waiting.

Hi mate. How much forward can the tracks go compared to your older One's?

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wicka said..
I run the ensis rock n roll 57L with my sab foils.. I like even foot pressure and have my foil all the way forward in the tracks.

If your all the way up the front of your board tracks the next option is to run more shim on your stabilizer. That will allow you to move your mast backwards I'm currently running 1.5 degs

The 57 seems to be pretty good but 97 I tried sucks imo.

if you like your Fanatic board, the newer models have the tracks further forward. i've been using the W1000, W799, and W940 on my 75l and 60l Sky Wings (and even the 45l). I run my W1000/S400 all the way forward, W940/S370 near middle, and my W799/S370 a bit back of center. The W1000 could go further forward but I am using it w/ a PC mast that doesn't have the extra holes in front and an adaptor that puts the wing slightly back towards the mast. The W940 and W799 are being used w/ the Kraken 93 and 703K fuse no shims.

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wicka said..
If your all the way up the front of your board tracks the next option is to run more shim on your stabilizer. That will allow you to move your mast backwards I'm currently running 1.5 degs

Yeah I played around with that. I was shimming the 483 and 450 stabs with the 700HS fuse, think it was 2/2.5 deg with the 483, to get my feet in a comfy spot on the board, but I reckon that amount starts to affect the glide (or so maybe I imagine!)

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natho6026961 said..

paul.j said..

You can try ONE 5ft x 26 x 90L www.oneoceansportsaustralia.com/shop/wind-wing-boards
As long as you are in Australia we have them with tracks forward or tracks back so they can suit pretty much any foil and for the constructions we do they are way cheaper than anything close to the weight and strength and all in stock now so no waiting.

Hi mate. How much forward can the tracks go compared to your older One's?

Each size is a little different but the 5ft has the tracks pushed 5cm further forward which on a 5ft board is quite a bit.

Cheers Jacko

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paul.j said..

natho6026961 said..

paul.j said..

You can try ONE 5ft x 26 x 90L www.oneoceansportsaustralia.com/shop/wind-wing-boards
As long as you are in Australia we have them with tracks forward or tracks back so they can suit pretty much any foil and for the constructions we do they are way cheaper than anything close to the weight and strength and all in stock now so no waiting.

Hi mate. How much forward can the tracks go compared to your older One's?

Each size is a little different but the 5ft has the tracks pushed 5cm further forward which on a 5ft board is quite a bit.

Cheers Jacko

Hi Jacko,
Which of your current boards would suit a HA Armstrong setup (tracks forward too )

At your weight you should go lower than 90l perhaps 80l

If you're headed to Europe checkout takoon boards. There will soon be some in AU via a local distributor too.
The new Takoon glide is excellent and is what I currently ride. Note you need an intermediate level for the glide board due to its narrow width. It's flat bottom and no kick tail suits ha foils perfectly, tracks are forward.

It's frustrating how board manufacturers don't provide data on the placement of the foil track and foot strap inserts. It's crucial for a foil board and once you've been riding for a while you'll know what you want. Shimming the stabiliser isn't the solution to fixing mast placement as it won't give you a balanced setup across low and high speeds.

I ended up getting a board from Swift foiling in the UK. They gave me all the measurements for their NG board which I then tweaked before they made it. The quality is top notch and it costs slightly less than a mid range production board like the Fanatic Sky wing:

swiftfoiling.com/

There's now the option of 16 inch foil tracks that should accommodate almost any foil

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kobo said..

paul.j said..

natho6026961 said..

paul.j said..

You can try ONE 5ft x 26 x 90L www.oneoceansportsaustralia.com/shop/wind-wing-boards
As long as you are in Australia we have them with tracks forward or tracks back so they can suit pretty much any foil and for the constructions we do they are way cheaper than anything close to the weight and strength and all in stock now so no waiting.

Hi mate. How much forward can the tracks go compared to your older One's?

Each size is a little different but the 5ft has the tracks pushed 5cm further forward which on a 5ft board is quite a bit.

Cheers Jacko

Hi Jacko,
Which of your current boards would suit a HA Armstrong setup (tracks forward too )

For winging any of the new wing boards with forward tracks will be sweet. The smaller Eggs also make unreal wing boards as they lift of the water so nice and easy. Really the boards now have the tracks ok for the HA wings.

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paul.j said..
Each size is a little different but the 5ft has the tracks pushed 5cm further forward which on a 5ft board is quite a bit.

Cheers Jacko

I reckon the difference in mast position between the w945 and the w1110 is almost 10cm, so for sabfoil you really need the tracks in the right pozzy, much further forward (or longer tracks). Tough gig for board makers.. Can't keep everyone happy across all foil brands!

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natho6026961 said..

paul.j said..
Each size is a little different but the 5ft has the tracks pushed 5cm further forward which on a 5ft board is quite a bit.

Cheers Jacko

I reckon the difference in mast position between the w945 and the w1110 is almost 10cm, so for sabfoil you really need the tracks in the right pozzy, much further forward (or longer tracks). Tough gig for board makers.. Can't keep everyone happy across all foil brands!

I rode a Sab foil the other day and all I can say is good luck on those, I know some people do really well on these but God Dam that noodle mast flexy wing and back foot pressure was out of control, I did 17km DW on it and the best part for me was hitting the beach and getting of the thing, Then the dam thing cut my hand to the bone with the ridiculous Sharpe trailing edge in the shorebreak. I know some people love them but definitely not for me.

My board seemed to work fine with it though just very out off balance foil to ride.

No sure what setup you rode but that's the complete opposite to what I've felt with the sabfoil gear. I mostly ride the w1000 w740 and w1110. I've previously owned axis, unifoil, and Armstrong, broke all of them. The sabfoil has been superior in almost every way. Stiff, rigid, and very well balanced. Even foot pressure through the whole speed range. They were the first to bring out the true high aspect 10ar foils. They feel way more solid than anything I've ridden. The newer high aspect wings are almost solid carbon. I feel sabfoil is ahead of the game in foil design and construction. They are slightly heavier than some and also have a high stall speed like other high aspect foil brands (lift, Armstrong) but there top end is better than anything I've ridden. Probably a reason why everyone is using them in the wing events in Europe.

The foils mentioned above on the kite fuse like to be ridden up front in the box as the mast position is very close to the front wing. the other foils in the range that take the m8 bolts the mast position is set back further on the fuse and are usually placed back a good 5-10cm or so.

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paul.j said..

natho6026961 said..

paul.j said..
Each size is a little different but the 5ft has the tracks pushed 5cm further forward which on a 5ft board is quite a bit.

Cheers Jacko

I reckon the difference in mast position between the w945 and the w1110 is almost 10cm, so for sabfoil you really need the tracks in the right pozzy, much further forward (or longer tracks). Tough gig for board makers.. Can't keep everyone happy across all foil brands!

I rode a Sab foil the other day and all I can say is good luck on those, I know some people do really well on these but God Dam that noodle mast flexy wing and back foot pressure was out of control, I did 17km DW on it and the best part for me was hitting the beach and getting of the thing, Then the dam thing cut my hand to the bone with the ridiculous Sharpe trailing edge in the shorebreak. I know some people love them but definitely not for me.

My board seemed to work fine with it though just very out off balance foil to ride.

It's true the sab masts are very flexy and sharp as hell when I tried the M92. The front wings are the stiffest I know on the market. Have not tried the new Kraken mast, have ridden the cedrus mast with the w1000 which is a decent set-up for stiffness, it was on a one wing board btw so track position was not an issue.

Yeah i rode the 1100 and that wing has quite a bit of flex, the kracken mast kind of seems pointless and I feel it just adds weight and over complicates things for no real gain. The fuse to front wing join might work on smaller wings but on the 1100 it was not the best and forsure over time it would become more of an issue and i could only imagine using it with the new 1350 wing that would be a nightmare.

It had some points that felt nice and it was quite smooth at times, not crazy fast but not slow either, for me its the back foot heavy feel that really just killed it and I know it has about 600 shims in the box and maybe with some tuning it could balance it out a little but why not just make it right in the first place so the customer does not need to spend the first 6 months trying to tune the foil? I am more of a plug and play kind of person and when i seen all the shims I nearly didn't even bother testing it as the angle changes on the shims were crazy!!

On the mast flex it was flexy but not the worst i have ridden as a few others out there are like riding a pool noodle and this was not that bad. If you owned one I am sure you can get used to it and make it feel good but just not for me. Oh and the sharpness of the trailing edge I will just leave this pic here for my thoughts on this.

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paul.j said..
Yeah i rode the 1100 and that wing has quite a bit of flex, the kracken mast kind of seems pointless and I feel it just adds weight and over complicates things for no real gain. The fuse to front wing join might work on smaller wings but on the 1100 it was not the best and forsure over time it would become more of an issue and i could only imagine using it with the new 1350 wing that would be a nightmare.

It had some points that felt nice and it was quite smooth at times, not crazy fast but not slow either, for me its the back foot heavy feel that really just killed it and I know it has about 600 shims in the box and maybe with some tuning it could balance it out a little but why not just make it right in the first place so the customer does not need to spend the first 6 months trying to tune the foil? I am more of a plug and play kind of person and when i seen all the shims I nearly didn't even bother testing it as the angle changes on the shims were crazy!!

On the mast flex it was flexy but not the worst i have ridden as a few others out there are like riding a pool noodle and this was not that bad. If you owned one I am sure you can get used to it and make it feel good but just not for me. Oh and the sharpness of the trailing edge I will just leave this pic here for my thoughts on this.

Not sure why the pic didn't come through in the first post, don't look if you don't like blood.

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Alysum said..
It's true the sab masts are very flexy and sharp as hell when I tried the M92. The front wings are the stiffest I know on the market. Have not tried the new Kraken mast, have ridden the cedrus mast with the w1000 which is a decent set-up for stiffness, it was on a one wing board btw so track position was not an issue.

Which board?

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natho6026961 said..

paul.j said..
Each size is a little different but the 5ft has the tracks pushed 5cm further forward which on a 5ft board is quite a bit.

Cheers Jacko

I reckon the difference in mast position between the w945 and the w1110 is almost 10cm, so for sabfoil you really need the tracks in the right pozzy, much further forward (or longer tracks). Tough gig for board makers.. Can't keep everyone happy across all foil brands!

I agree with that. I wasn't able to properly use the w1110 until I got my custom board. Even with 12 inch tracks the w1110 is about an inch back from the front of the box and the w799 about an inch forward from the rear.

Try to imagine what Balz Muller could do when not riding a pool noodle (mast).... ;-)

Back on topic. I use Sabfoil on 3 different boards. Switched to the Kraken system with the 703 fuse, with s425 stab (from 700hs / m82 and 710Alu/ M75A).

Have not measured the mast position compared to the m82 and 700hs fuse combo, but
on my Supfoil the mount has not moved. Only use the w1250 for sup foiling.
on my wingfoil board (83 litre) the mast position varies from nearly at the front (riding w1250 front wing, about half an inch from the front of the tracks) to centered (riding the w945). That's on a production model Appletree Appleslice Wing V2 with 83 litres.

So w1250 needs about 2 inch more forward mastposition compared to w945, with same mast/fuse/stab & rider combo, on the same board.

KT Wing Drifter 90 - ktsurfing.com/boards-2022/wing-drifter/

or Quatro Wing Drifter 90, if you can still find it (I have one in stock hehe), which is basically the same shape - quatromaui.com/wing/boards/y2021/wing-drifter-pro/

I am using 80 litres board myself (72 kg), and it works perfectly with all Sabfoil setups I have tried it with. w800/s370, w1000/s399, w1110/s370, w799/s399, w945/s370, w950/s483 (with a shim to reduce the lift), w999/s399, w1100/s425, w1250/s425. The most forward mast position is with the w1110/s370, for this one I am using second row of holes in the front, but the mast is not yet all the way in the front, and I could move the footstraps further to the back too if needed.



Try to arrange a demo if possible. You would get a super stable and perfectly balanced board. Easy to pump and exciting to ride.

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FlyingPeew said..
Try to imagine what Balz Muller could do when not riding a pool noodle (mast).... ;-)

LOLBut do you think, let say, the top 10 riders in the world when they compete they use "stock" gear?

I have the Ensis Rock N Roll Boards here. Perfect with the SABFOIL . They are the BALZ design boards so naturally they fit with the SAB
Feel free to give us a call
FOILSPORT.com.au