Hi
looking for your thoughts on this situation. I previously ripped out my foil tracks on a relatively new board, about 2 months ago. today I snapped a mast that was 3 wks old.

Both failures happened in exactly the same location and doing the same move. Inland reservoir trying to gybe, Im not yet gybing, so I fall in trying on every turn. Both failures happened 2/3 way round on the gybe, when I fell of. Both failures were a side ways force. The mast was at 45 degrees to the board.
has any one experienced this practicing turning? I literally just fall of board mid turn. I don't use straps so no leverage that way. All I can think of is that I fall on the board causing a massive slide load on the mast causing it to fail. is this feasible? Should a board take these stresses.
I see people jumping and getting into all sorts of shapes with no issues. It has really made me asses if it's worth the effort foiling if it's a technique issue that may course the same failures again and again. It's just such an expensive sport without gear failures. thanks for your input.

I regularly drive my foil into shallow water banks at speed , never an issue . Get smashed in the surf winging again no issues . Fanatic board & Axis Ali mast .

Where you fell off, how deep was it? Did you hit the substrate with the foil? Ropes in the water? Anything to trip it up?
If so, then I'd be putting that down as the reason.
I've not fallen hard on my board when it's flying which could potentially side load the foil - but it makes sense that it could cause failure??
What gear are you using? Was it all tightened correctly? Bolts and fasteners can come loose and if so, the foil can potentially develop a wobble. The slop you would then potentially get with the foil moving backwards and forwards or side to side can cause a 'shock' load which might cause failure?
I've not had any gear failures. Have hit weed beds and sand (lower speed). Axis stuff seems bomb proof.

As said above...what gear?
Big foils with long masts generate lots of load.
I'll bet IF you dropped foil size, and mast length, the problem will lessen.
And big guys break lotsa gear.

I'm a 100kgs+ and have hit the sand bottom at speed too close to the beach during gybes a few times, no issues whatsoever. Fanatic 2022 board and GoFoil.

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martyj4 said..
Where you fell off, how deep was it? Did you hit the substrate with the foil? Ropes in the water? Anything to trip it up?
If so, then I'd be putting that down as the reason.
I've not fallen hard on my board when it's flying which could potentially side load the foil - but it makes sense that it could cause failure??
What gear are you using? Was it all tightened correctly? Bolts and fasteners can come loose and if so, the foil can potentially develop a wobble. The slop you would then potentially get with the foil moving backwards and forwards or side to side can cause a 'shock' load which might cause failure?
I've not had any gear failures. Have hit weed beds and sand (lower speed). Axis stuff seems bomb proof.

forgot to say I'm 79kgs plus winter kit.
It was inland reservoir, loads of water this time of year, could not touch the bottom when getting back on. All bolts tight, failed at board end with a bonded/screw connection to plate. wont say brand as with the local shop. thanks for feed back.

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LeeD said..
As said above...what gear?
Big foils with long masts generate lots of load.
I'll bet IF you dropped foil size, and mast length, the problem will lessen.
And big guys break lotsa gear.

Won't state gear yet as with local shop at min.
75cm mast and 1400 foil. im 79 kgs plus winter kit. cheers.

So you were kooking up a simple gybe and the mast track broke - twice. Yeh nah that's equipment failure for sure. I'm crashing and bashing at speed all the time - even smacked into a reef a few times. Run it into shallow banks. I well keel over on a jibe. Gear for sure. have fallen on my board plenty of times and with 85 mast - so even more leverage. My son jumps the damn things . and well high to. Recon that could cause some load. No breaks.

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eppo said..
So you were kooking up a simple gybe and the mast track broke - twice. Yeh nah that's equipment failure for sure. I'm crashing and bashing at speed all the time - even smacked into a reef a few times. Run it into shallow banks. I well keel over on a jibe. Gear for sure. have fallen on my board plenty of times and with 85 mast - so even more leverage. My son jumps the damn things . and well high to. Recon that could cause some load. No breaks.

Yeah in a nut shell, came off 2/3rds round. tracks came out on one board. Mast snapped at base today. Not a good couple of months. yes I see loads of videos of ppl going for it big style with no issues. Might just be unlucky.

Well last year's N.. foil masts were suspect, 1st year of the wide chord masts.
1400 is the high aspect, so lots of side loading compared to Jet.
Windgenuity preferred and ordered 35% for sale.
Since you ripped box out AND fractured the mast, you can't totally blame one or the other.
Like buying anything "first year", not the best idea..

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LeeD said..
Well last year's N.. foil masts were suspect, 1st year of the wide chord masts.
1400 is the high aspect, so lots of side loading compared to Jet.
Windgenuity preferred and ordered 35% for sale.
Since you ripped box out AND fractured the mast, you can't totally blame one or the other.
Like buying anything "first year", not the best idea..

LeeD, not sure what you mean by not the best idea??

rgmacca, sounds like you've been really unlucky on the gear front. From what you describe, i'd be back to the shop looking to get warrantied replacements for the busted gear.

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martyj4 said..

LeeD said..
Well last year's N.. foil masts were suspect, 1st year of the wide chord masts.
1400 is the high aspect, so lots of side loading compared to Jet.
Windgenuity preferred and ordered 35% for sale.
Since you ripped box out AND fractured the mast, you can't totally blame one or the other.
Like buying anything "first year", not the best idea..

LeeD, not sure what you mean by not the best idea??

rgmacca, sounds like you've been really unlucky on the gear front. From what you describe, i'd be back to the shop looking to get warrantied replacements for the busted gear.

Local store has been excellent at sorting warranty with track boxs first time it happened, left mast there today and they are getting I touch with distributor. It seems too much of a coincidence to happen in same location twice. I'm now thinking I might be falling heavy causing side load on the mast.

For starters, you should avoid landing on your board when falling off at all times, not good for you or your board.

Try slowing down when practicing the gybe, once you feel comfortable with your balance and wing control throughout the manoeuvre, then speed up.

Martyj4....
Kinda well known to avoid the first year of any car, boat, plane, or machinery.
Just like try to avoid Monda and Friday produced gear.
I'm sure you know that.

Was the gear new when you bought it? I have to think the gear was damaged, or there's more to the story.

I can't imagine any way to break a mast while gybing in deep water (or falling during a gybe). There is almost no way, given the forces that any decent gear is meant to withstand. The kind of forces you are talking about would have to have one end of the mast (the foil or the board) fixed with significant lateral pressure on the other end of the fulcrum - and I can't imagine any beginner replicating these forces during a gybe or a fall.

Im stumped.

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LeeD said..
Martyj4....
Kinda well known to avoid the first year of any car, boat, plane, or machinery.
Just like try to avoid Monda and Friday produced gear.
I'm sure you know that.

WTF are you on LeeD??
rgmacca did not mention anything about a new 1st year brand that hasn't been tried and tested?? Where did you come up with that story? Same place as the rest of the tripe that you put up here? You are so full of it.
What's he meant to do? Buy second hand with no warranty? Turns out he's bought brand new and has a warranty to back him up. Where's the bad idea in that?
rgmacca, I wouldn't take LeeD's criticism on board. He's got plenty of prior form when it comes to trying to appear like an expert where pretty much everyone here can see through him like a wet piece of flimsy washed out toilet paper.

I think the board's foil box got ripped out first, THEN the foil mast failed at a later date.
So possibly, the first incident also stressed the foil mast. The foil mast did not fail then, but at a later date.
Didn't someone here mention the vulnerability of the new, wide cord alu masts?
It's worth mentioning that during a catastrophy, sometimes the broken part SAVES the human body from further damage.

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LeeD said..
I think the board's foil box got ripped out first, THEN the foil mast failed at a later date.
So possibly, the first incident also stressed the foil mast. The foil mast did not fail then, but at a later date.
Didn't someone here mention the vulnerability of the new, wide cord alu masts?
It's worth mentioning that during a catastrophy, sometimes the broken part SAVES the human body from further damage.

You haven't answered what the bad idea was? Or is it that when you post on here - then it's a bad idea?

Wow, that Marty dude is full of anger, isn't he?
We already heard a warrantee was in progress.
You guys often say I am on drugs.
Maybe you should look in a mirror.
It's a fact Windgenuity ordered c35 masts over all alu.
I remember someone here on Seabreeze talking about weaknesses of all alu new style wide cord N.... masts.
So I'm not sure where all the anger is coming from.
rgmacca, did I offend you with my replies?

Marty...in all your anger and animosity, maybe try reading the posts after you inquired about "ideas".
Perhaps it would enlighten you.

Like buying anything "first year", not the best idea..

Your words LeeD. I was merely pointing out your assumption was based on nothing. rg didn't mention anything about the gear he bought. It was clearly bought brand new with warranty.
You reckon it's a bad idea? I don't get why you think that. I'm asking for an explanation. You haven't provided one so I reckon you're overly critical and am calling you for being a BS artist.

Marty...
Since you are a veritable "babe in the woods".....
Last year, after 3 seasons of narrow chord masts which flexed too much with wider foils, N.... came out with "s25". About one inch wider chord, lighter and thinner, they were available in all alu bonded, c35 bonded, and all carbon bonded.
All NEW and last year was the first production run.
FIRST production run.
Do you get it?

I know plenty of you think I'm a conceited SOB.
But in this particular thread, I did not belittle rgmacca, in my mind at least.
I just provided some history and an old wives tale.

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LeeD said..
Marty...
Since you are a veritable "babe in the woods".....
Last year, after 3 seasons of narrow chord masts which flexed too much with wider foils, N.... came out with "s25". About one inch wider chord, lighter and thinner, they were available in all alu bonded, c35 bonded, and all carbon bonded.
All NEW and last year was the first production run.
FIRST production run.
Do you get it?

Where did rg mention any type of gear? Like s25 or c35? No mention at all. That's why I'm calling you on the BS. How can you assume he's bought that gear when he didn't mention it?
You can buy all sorts of gear that's been in production for over a year, brand new with warranty.

Yeah "babe in the woods ..." Haaah! Good one.

Have you ever considered that the mass of criticism that befalls you on Seabreeze seems to come not from one of us, but from many? Can you see a common denominator? Looked in the mirror lately?

Certainly not wanting to get involved in this, but just wanting to highlight that if everyone subscribed to "Like buying anything "first year", not the best idea" then we would'n't have any updated releases as they would've all gone bust.
Just saying, as you were

"Bonded", 75 cm, 1400 sq cm., mast issue.
4 clues and you can't figure it out?
You really DO need a group hug.

What? Were we all been yesterday with ZERO knowledge?

Spellcheck trumps stupidity!
Not BEEN, .... BORN

Standard N.... package is 75 alu mast, 1400 ha foil, 64 fuse, and 310 stab. Stab could change with package.

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Velocicraptor said..
Was the gear new when you bought it? I have to think the gear was damaged, or there's more to the story.

I can't imagine any way to break a mast while gybing in deep water (or falling during a gybe). There is almost no way, given the forces that any decent gear is meant to withstand. The kind of forces you are talking about would have to have one end of the mast (the foil or the board) fixed with significant lateral pressure on the other end of the fulcrum - and I can't imagine any beginner replicating these forces during a gybe or a fall.

Im stumped.

Yes brand new 3wks old. Had some good windy days so prob 10 sessions on it. I'm trying to imagine the physics of it, would love to know the forces involved. I'm 79kgs plus winter kit (6kgs) . it's got to be a substantial force if in a taco situation, but then you would think mast would move through the water like a paddle blade.

OP, it's hard to imagine how you did anything wrong that would cause the level of damage in both incidences (tracks ripping out, mast breaking). Glad the local shop is taking care of it. Hope they lend you gear to ride in the mean time.