is John his boss actually?

Anyone tried that wing and can offer further comments?

I have the 6.2 and 4 without windows and I love them. I only have experience with a handful of other designs (fOne, sik, slingshot) but I feel that it has a pretty distinct feel versus the others I have flown. It is relatively light and flat with minimal dihedral (the most notable feature) so it can be stalled very neutral which I like. The lack of dihedral makes the wing slightly slower coming around in a gybe, but once you adjust your timing for it, you forget about it. I ride a high aspect foil which is more drawn out turning so the timing between the foil and wing works fine but it might be more of a mismatch on a faster turning foil. This slow turnover is noticeable on the 6.2 but the 4 is pretty easy to bring around in a turn.

the handles are amazing any I would have a hard time going to a traditional handle setup. The mini booms allow you to micro adjust your hand placement which can really impact the power. I find they give a lot more control over both steering and power than any other handle setup that I have used (haven't ridden a boom wing yet).

Construction seems as solid as any. No frills or gimmicks in the design or construction which attracted me to the wing. Leash is solid.
I ride the wings for all conditions (no airs) but it's really a treat when you start stalling it on waves. The leading edge handle stalls it very balanced. You can also use the front strut handle one handed and semi stall the wing to ride minimally powered downwind. I haven't had as neutral feeling with other wings.

My main complaints are the bag and the deflation. The bag is a crappy drawstring sack and it is very difficult to get the 6.2 into the bag without some jamming. The bags have super long strings hanging everywhere that dangle all over the place and get tangled on everything. The strut is inflated/deflated by a single tube (there is only one valve for the wing) and it takes a bit of time to get the air out of it. While it's not the best design, ive gotten used to this and I just make sure to deflate the strut before I deflate the leading edge and fold it up.

Only other thing I would mention is that it is fairly wide. I'm tall so it's not much of an issue for me, but I would say it is probably wider than the other wings I have ridden at the same size. The 6.2 could be a lot of wingspan to manage for someone much below 6'.

Yeah I'm very happy with my 3.1. ,4 and 5 I've got the windows version and happy to have windows again
these new airframes are super stiff and as I'm a heavier rider than average they power up nice as anything softer depowers to early
the new handles are a step up from the crossv2 they are stiff and the neutral handle is stiff also
they are slightly more high aspect than the cross v2 but only took a couple of seshes to reprogram the brain to adjust the holding angle for pumping as once ya up on the foil it dosn't matter
the windows are thinner than the Naish but I'm happy with that as they roll up better and weight is light
there leashes are are better on the wrist wrap than before
the leash connection point is better than the cross v2 but could still be more forward than where it is I will probably just put it on the neutral handle again like I did on the cross v2
all up lots of improvements through out definitely a step in the right direction and A great quality manufactured item hope this helps someone deciding what to purchase

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stroppo said..
Yeah I'm very happy with my 3.1. ,4 and 5 I've got the windows version and happy to have windows again
these new airframes are super stiff and as I'm a heavier rider than average they power up nice as anything softer depowers to early
the new handles are a step up from the crossv2 they are stiff and the neutral handle is stiff also
they are slightly more high aspect than the cross v2 but only took a couple of seshes to reprogram the brain to adjust the holding angle for pumping as once ya up on the foil it dosn't matter
the windows are thinner than the Naish but I'm happy with that as they roll up better and weight is light
there leashes are are better on the wrist wrap than before
the leash connection point is better than the cross v2 but could still be more forward than where it is I will probably just put it on the neutral handle again like I did on the cross v2
all up lots of improvements through out definitely a step in the right direction and A great quality manufactured item hope this helps someone deciding what to purchase

Curious what wind range are you riding the 4 vs the 3? I was thinking of getting a 3, but haven't found much necessity for it yet. The 4 rides pretty well overpowered and I've ridden it at ~30kts. With the long handles I can just shift to the front to depower or back to power up and it's like riding another size wing.

Yeah I was using the three in gust to 30 last week was sweet and with a small foil and I'm 112kg it really depends on what combo you use sometimes I like a small wing and big foil and sometimes small wing and small foil or big wing and small foil but they have got a nice top end with a tight canopy they don't flog around when depowered

I just received my Mantis 3.1 wing. I've got a Slick 3.5 ordered but won't get it until the fall so the Mantis is my summer high wind wing -- I wanted a boomed wing so this is the next best thing (40 years of windsurfing). I've inflated it and it looks like it should work fine -- mint green, no windows. As mentioned, I also have some Slicks, which I love (4.5, 5.5 and 7.0) and a couple of Slingshot Darts (4.0 and 5.0), to which I've added a boom (tied down the handles). It's amazing to me that a triangular shaped wing (Darts) can be fast, powerful and good upwind and a rectangular shaped wing (Slick) can also excel in those areas. I'm looking forward to putting the Mantis in the lineup and comparing it to what I already know. BTW the Mantis is by far the least expensive wing I've purchased (I've owned a couple of V1 Wasps and demoed the Cabrinha V2) -- here's hoping it's a great value.

Just a thought -- If I were in the wing business I'd offer wings with the option of handles or a boom and adjust the price accordingly (Duotone does do this to some degree) -- I've seen polls where the preference between the two was evenly split.

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dejavu said..
I just received my Mantis 3.1 wing. I've got a Slick 3.5 ordered but won't get it until the fall so the Mantis is my summer high wind wing -- I wanted a boomed wing so this is the next best thing (40 years of windsurfing). I've inflated it and it looks like it should work fine -- mint green, no windows. As mentioned, I also have some Slicks, which I love (4.5, 5.5 and 7.0) and a couple of Slingshot Darts (4.0 and 5.0), to which I've added a boom (tied down the handles). It's amazing to me that a triangular shaped wing (Darts) can be fast, powerful and good upwind and a rectangular shaped wing (Slick) can also excel in those areas. I'm looking forward to putting the Mantis in the lineup and comparing it to what I already know. BTW the Mantis is by far the least expensive wing I've purchased (I've owned a couple of V1 Wasps and demoed the Cabrinha V2) -- here's hoping it's a great value.

Just a thought -- If I were in the wing business I'd offer wings with the option of handles or a boom and adjust the price accordingly (Duotone does do this to some degree) -- I've seen polls where the preference between the two was evenly split.

Hey Dejavu, is their much difference in wingspans between the wings you mentioned? I am 168 Cm tall and feel my Slingwing v2 is too wide (especially for my 10 year old son)I was looking at a Mantis but now I am not sure.

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Velocicraptor said..
I have the 6.2 and 4 without windows and I love them. I only have experience with a handful of other designs (fOne, sik, slingshot) but I feel that it has a pretty distinct feel versus the others I have flown. It is relatively light and flat with minimal dihedral (the most notable feature) so it can be stalled very neutral which I like. The lack of dihedral makes the wing slightly slower coming around in a gybe, but once you adjust your timing for it, you forget about it. I ride a high aspect foil which is more drawn out turning so the timing between the foil and wing works fine but it might be more of a mismatch on a faster turning foil. This slow turnover is noticeable on the 6.2 but the 4 is pretty easy to bring around in a turn.

the handles are amazing any I would have a hard time going to a traditional handle setup. The mini booms allow you to micro adjust your hand placement which can really impact the power. I find they give a lot more control over both steering and power than any other handle setup that I have used (haven't ridden a boom wing yet).

Construction seems as solid as any. No frills or gimmicks in the design or construction which attracted me to the wing. Leash is solid.
I ride the wings for all conditions (no airs) but it's really a treat when you start stalling it on waves. The leading edge handle stalls it very balanced. You can also use the front strut handle one handed and semi stall the wing to ride minimally powered downwind. I haven't had as neutral feeling with other wings.

My main complaints are the bag and the deflation. The bag is a crappy drawstring sack and it is very difficult to get the 6.2 into the bag without some jamming. The bags have super long strings hanging everywhere that dangle all over the place and get tangled on everything. The strut is inflated/deflated by a single tube (there is only one valve for the wing) and it takes a bit of time to get the air out of it. While it's not the best design, ive gotten used to this and I just make sure to deflate the strut before I deflate the leading edge and fold it up.

Only other thing I would mention is that it is fairly wide. I'm tall so it's not much of an issue for me, but I would say it is probably wider than the other wings I have ridden at the same size. The 6.2 could be a lot of wingspan to manage for someone much below 6'.

Does the Mantis have a shorter wingspan than Slingwing V2?

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chiromario said..

dejavu said..
I just received my Mantis 3.1 wing. I've got a Slick 3.5 ordered but won't get it until the fall so the Mantis is my summer high wind wing -- I wanted a boomed wing so this is the next best thing (40 years of windsurfing). I've inflated it and it looks like it should work fine -- mint green, no windows. As mentioned, I also have some Slicks, which I love (4.5, 5.5 and 7.0) and a couple of Slingshot Darts (4.0 and 5.0), to which I've added a boom (tied down the handles). It's amazing to me that a triangular shaped wing (Darts) can be fast, powerful and good upwind and a rectangular shaped wing (Slick) can also excel in those areas. I'm looking forward to putting the Mantis in the lineup and comparing it to what I already know. BTW the Mantis is by far the least expensive wing I've purchased (I've owned a couple of V1 Wasps and demoed the Cabrinha V2) -- here's hoping it's a great value.

Just a thought -- If I were in the wing business I'd offer wings with the option of handles or a boom and adjust the price accordingly (Duotone does do this to some degree) -- I've seen polls where the preference between the two was evenly split.

Hey Dejavu, is their much difference in wingspans between the wings you mentioned? I am 168 Cm tall and feel my Slingwing v2 is too wide (especially for my 10 year old son)I was looking at a Mantis but now I am not sure.

The Mantis is quite high aspect / wide / short chord.. I've got a 2m for my 125cm tall 8 year old daughter and she can use it fine but I'm inclined to think it could be lower aspect for her. I feel it is more a high wind wing for adults than a light wind wing for juniors.. Works fine though for both.. The 3.1 isn't much wider .. Its wider / higher aspect than a 3m Crosswing X2 though .. The Perth Storm Session thread shows a good comparison between crosswing and mantis. Unf. no-one has a slingwing near me to compare with.

What size are you looking at? I'll throw a tape measure on one later if needs be.. Have 2, 2.5 and 3.1...

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Smeee said..

chiromario said..

dejavu said..
I just received my Mantis 3.1 wing. I've got a Slick 3.5 ordered but won't get it until the fall so the Mantis is my summer high wind wing -- I wanted a boomed wing so this is the next best thing (40 years of windsurfing). I've inflated it and it looks like it should work fine -- mint green, no windows. As mentioned, I also have some Slicks, which I love (4.5, 5.5 and 7.0) and a couple of Slingshot Darts (4.0 and 5.0), to which I've added a boom (tied down the handles). It's amazing to me that a triangular shaped wing (Darts) can be fast, powerful and good upwind and a rectangular shaped wing (Slick) can also excel in those areas. I'm looking forward to putting the Mantis in the lineup and comparing it to what I already know. BTW the Mantis is by far the least expensive wing I've purchased (I've owned a couple of V1 Wasps and demoed the Cabrinha V2) -- here's hoping it's a great value.

Just a thought -- If I were in the wing business I'd offer wings with the option of handles or a boom and adjust the price accordingly (Duotone does do this to some degree) -- I've seen polls where the preference between the two was evenly split.

Hey Dejavu, is their much difference in wingspans between the wings you mentioned? I am 168 Cm tall and feel my Slingwing v2 is too wide (especially for my 10 year old son)I was looking at a Mantis but now I am not sure.

The Mantis is quite high aspect / wide / short chord.. I've got a 2m for my 125cm tall 8 year old daughter and she can use it fine but I'm inclined to think it could be lower aspect for her. I feel it is more a high wind wing for adults than a light wind wing for juniors.. Works fine though for both.. The 3.1 isn't much wider .. Its wider / higher aspect than a 3m Crosswing X2 though .. The Perth Storm Session thread shows a good comparison between crosswing and mantis. Unf. no-one has a slingwing near me to compare with.

What size are you looking at? I'll throw a tape measure on one later if needs be.. Have 2, 2.5 and 3.1...

2.5 and 5 m Mantis. Based on what you have said I might look at an Ozone Wasp V2. Mackiteboarding reported it to be quite narrow. I do like the Mantis handles though. The main reason for considering over others.

Wingspan of 3.1 is 280cm, Chord is 150cm..
Was out on it again this morning and it really is a remarkably good wing..

And yes, the handles are the best I've tried. I did consider them for small hands though this morning and wondered how thick they'd feel for a junior..

Looks good for 2 or 2.5 tomorrow here so i will throw a tape measure across them if and when.. ..

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Smeee said..
Wingspan of 3.1 is 280cm, Chord is 150cm..
Was out on it again this morning and it really is a remarkably good wing..

And yes, the handles are the best I've tried. I did consider them for small hands though this morning and wondered how thick they'd feel for a junior..

Looks good for 2 or 2.5 tomorrow here so i will throw a tape measure across them if and when.. ..

Thanks!

ho no worries..

2.0 wingspan is 220cm with chord / boom of 120cm .. Its really small!

When getting down to these sizes i think the gap really needs to be smaller between wings.. My 4m and 5m wings have quite a lot of overlap but i'd really need to be blown off the water on a 3.1 to even consider getting the 2.0 out..

i guess a 4m is 1/5 smaller than a 5m .. a 3m is 1/4 smaller than a 4m, a 2m is 1/3 smaller than a 3..

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Smeee said..
ho no worries..

2.0 wingspan is 220cm with chord / boom of 120cm .. Its really small!

When getting down to these sizes i think the gap really needs to be smaller between wings.. My 4m and 5m wings have quite a lot of overlap but i'd really need to be blown off the water on a 3.1 to even consider getting the 2.0 out..

i guess a 4m is 1/5 smaller than a 5m .. a 3m is 1/4 smaller than a 4m, a 2m is 1/3 smaller than a 3..

That's a great way to look at the sizing in fractions never really thought of it that way thanks

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Smeee said..
ho no worries..

2.0 wingspan is 220cm with chord / boom of 120cm .. Its really small!

When getting down to these sizes i think the gap really needs to be smaller between wings.. My 4m and 5m wings have quite a lot of overlap but i'd really need to be blown off the water on a 3.1 to even consider getting the 2.0 out..

i guess a 4m is 1/5 smaller than a 5m .. a 3m is 1/4 smaller than a 4m, a 2m is 1/3 smaller than a 3..

On the topic of small wing sizing. (I don't have any Cabrinha's but ) I actually find the gap between my 2.8 and 2.0 (+40%) too big. I got a 2.4 which is sometimes the exact right size.

Agree with this. The difference between a 2.4 and 2.8 is proportionally almost the same as between a 5 and a 6m. Is dumb and unscientific for manufacturers to just offer 1m increments from 7m all the way down to 2m, shows a lack of insight into how a quiver fits together in real life. Ends up with lots of overlap in the larger sizes and gaps in the wind range between the smaller sizes

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Smeee said..
ho no worries..

2.0 wingspan is 220cm with chord / boom of 120cm .. Its really small!

When getting down to these sizes i think the gap really needs to be smaller between wings.. My 4m and 5m wings have quite a lot of overlap but i'd really need to be blown off the water on a 3.1 to even consider getting the 2.0 out..

i guess a 4m is 1/5 smaller than a 5m .. a 3m is 1/4 smaller than a 4m, a 2m is 1/3 smaller than a 3..

Thanks again, Smee! How about a 5 m Mantis wingspan?

I've spent the season on the 6/4 mantis wings. my opinion is that this flat wing shape is best suited to the smaller sizes. After trying several different designs I find that I prefer more dihedral in lighter wind and more of a flat wing for higher wind. I find myself riding at the lower end of the power range more often when I'm on large wings, and flatter wings are more cumbersome to bring through a turn when underpowered versus a more V shaped profile.

Furthermore, the drift characteristics of a flat wing don't shine as much in large sizes.
I love my size 4 mantis and will probably buy a 3m as well. The 6 is good but I will probably replace it (or supplement it) with something that suits light wind better for me.

In general I think I'm riding closer to the wind speed on my large wings (or faster than the wind speed), and much slower than the wind speed when I'm on my smaller wings - and wings behave very differently depending on how your speed compares to the wind speed. I think that wing dihedral should increase as size increases and that a wing profile that excels in high wind won't necessarily translate to low wind. Just my opinion!

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chiromario said..

Smeee said..
ho no worries..

2.0 wingspan is 220cm with chord / boom of 120cm .. Its really small!

When getting down to these sizes i think the gap really needs to be smaller between wings.. My 4m and 5m wings have quite a lot of overlap but i'd really need to be blown off the water on a 3.1 to even consider getting the 2.0 out..

i guess a 4m is 1/5 smaller than a 5m .. a 3m is 1/4 smaller than a 4m, a 2m is 1/3 smaller than a 3..

Thanks again, Smee! How about a 5 m Mantis wingspan?

I don't have my 4 or 5 yet (aagh! ..) hopefully in 2 weeks....

But for reference .. a 3m Crosswing X2 has wingspan of 260cm x 150 boom.. vs 280 x 150 boom of mantis 3.1 ,,

Re gaps.. I somehow got my wife hooked on winging so can (almost) justify to her that we have a whole quiver of Mantis from 2.0 to 3.1m (4 and 5 in transit..) and a 3, 4 and 5 crosswing x2.

The crossover of the crosswing 4 and 5 means we can go on the same days as long as theres some 14 knot gusts for me to get the 4m going (vs 12 knots on 5m) .. When its 3m weather we have 1 each, and when its windier she's not interested. My daughter likes to use the 2m on her SUP with a stick-un sUPWINDer too...

I'd swear i can get the Mantis 3.1 going in less wind than the crosswing 3 but wouldn't bet my house on it...

I always choose the Mantis 3.1 over the 3m X2..

But the 4m X2 is probably my favourite of the lot to use.. Its got a massive range and does everything i want of it seamlessly ..

Wasn't this a Mantis review?! oh dear.. tangents...

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Velocicraptor said..
I've spent the season on the 6/4 mantis wings. my opinion is that this flat wing shape is best suited to the smaller sizes. After trying several different designs I find that I prefer more dihedral in lighter wind and more of a flat wing for higher wind. I find myself riding at the lower end of the power range more often when I'm on large wings, and flatter wings are more cumbersome to bring through a turn when underpowered versus a more V shaped profile.

Furthermore, the drift characteristics of a flat wing don't shine as much in large sizes.
I love my size 4 mantis and will probably buy a 3m as well. The 6 is good but I will probably replace it (or supplement it) with something that suits light wind better for me.

In general I think I'm riding closer to the wind speed on my large wings (or faster than the wind speed), and much slower than the wind speed when I'm on my smaller wings - and wings behave very differently depending on how your speed compares to the wind speed. I think that wing dihedral should increase as size increases and that a wing profile that excels in high wind won't necessarily translate to low wind. Just my opinion!

Good call.. I'd agree with this..

Have you tried a 5m Crosswing X2 ? I'd love to hear your thoughts on this vs 6m Mantis.. esp re bottom end..

I have the 6.2 mantis and the 5 X2 Crosswing. For me on a gusty inland lake they complement each other really well. I get going much earlier and easier on the 6.2. When I am starting to get a small bit of flapping on the trailing edge of the 6.2 the 5 is starting to be really fun. I do not take wind measurements but I am guessing the 6.2 gets me going at least 3 knots earlier and helps me stay up on the foil, once up, by even a bit more. The comfortable top end on the 5 is quite a bit higher although I can hang onto the 6.2 into quite a bit of wind.

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Hover62 said..
I have the 6.2 mantis and the 5 X2 Crosswing. For me on a gusty inland lake they complement each other really well. I get going much earlier and easier on the 6.2. When I am starting to get a small bit of flapping on the trailing edge of the 6.2 the 5 is starting to be really fun. I do not take wind measurements but I am guessing the 6.2 gets me going at least 3 knots earlier and helps me stay up on the foil, once up, by even a bit more. The comfortable top end on the 5 is quite a bit higher although I can hang onto the 6.2 into quite a bit of wind.

thanks ! useful comments.. !

1 last comment re WINDOWS...

I was on my 2m yesterday in 30-40 knots and very rough water.. All kind of different things were going on, especially the board being blown about when riding and crashing...

Anyway.. I surfaced from (another) crash to find my board turned upside down and the foil tip headed straight for my wing canopy..

I watched in horror as it stabbed the window and then rejoiced as the PVC absorbed the shock and held firm! Same impact to the ripstop would've ripped it for sure and been game over for the day..

I always wish reviews and product info included weight. To that end, I decided to weigh my mantis wings today for the benefit of anybody who might care. These weights are dry and without a leash and while the wings aren't sandy, there is probably a minor amount of sand weight in here.

6m - 2220 g
4m - 3020 g

thank you for weighing.... it's annoying how all these companies talk about light weight but most don't provide weights or other meaningful stats.

Also thank you to SABFoil for publishing stuff light weight, foil thickness, stabilizer angle of incidence on their fuselages, etc...

Seems like whenever I get something new, the first thing I do is weigh and catalog it.

Gee - There's must be a fair bit of sand on the 4m!!!

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Velocicraptor said..
I always wish reviews and product info included weight. To that end, I decided to weigh my mantis wings today for the benefit of anybody who might care. These weights are dry and without a leash and while the wings aren't sandy, there is probably a minor amount of sand weight in here.

6m - 2220 g
4m - 3020 g

Doh! Switched the sizes