What are ppls thoughts on a 2 wing quiver for 12-30knts. @85kgs. 4&6. or should I work towards 3 wings.
3.5/4.5/6.

looking at Ensis score. thanks for any feed back.

I'm sort of in the same boat. I'm currently working with a 4/6 but as I have come to progress I find myself pushing the range on the 4 a lot and I really only use my 6 as a session saver below ~15kts. I have also ridden my 4 above 30 kts and while I would have been better off on a 3 i still have a lot of fun on it.

next year I will either go with a 3/4/5.5 combo or else a 5/3.5. My concern is that a lot of my riding will be right in the overlap between the 5/3.5 (probably 18-25 kts) where i might be better with a 4.
I guess the takeaway at my weight (175-80 lbs) and skill level is that I probably wouldn't get anything over a 5.5 unless a lot of my riding was below 15-16 kts.

I have been rocking 4 / 6. I hate getting skunked so a 6m maxes low end. I have had a half dozen 40kt sessions where I wish I had a 3m.

Now I got an ocean Rodeo aluula 5m, it's low end range is wider so I think it can work as my big wing. Also got a 3m (HL series), but remains to be seen if I will miss my 4m go to.

I am your weight and happy with a 4.2/6.2 quiver but I also supplement with windfoiling a 7.3 sail in wind where the 6.2 wouldn't stand a chance, and it gets the most use. The wind is super light most of the time where I live.

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juandesooka said..
I have been rocking 4 / 6. I hate getting skunked so a 6m maxes low end. I have had a half dozen 40kt sessions where I wish I had a 3m.

Now I got an ocean Rodeo aluula 5m, it's low end range is wider so I think it can work as my big wing. Also got a 3m (HL series), but remains to be seen if I will miss my 4m go to.

I'm considering this same setup. Wish the glide came in a 3.5. Let us know how this works for you.

for 12-30kt, I'm looking to go 3.5 and 5.0 next year. we will see if it works but plan on the 3.5 being my every day wing and the 5.0 a light wind wing. my current 3.3, 4.0, 6.0 I find myself hardly ever using the 6m (Units). Most used wing is 3.3 during the main part of our season. I figure 3.5 and 5m would get more use and be a nice spread for what we have here.

Something like a 3m and a 5m gets my vote.

With good technique and large enough foil, a good 5m should work in 12 kts. A 3-3.5 will take you well into the 30kts. I'm on a 5m/3.5m F-One strike quiver. Perhaps one or two times in 35kts+ I wish I'd had a smaller wing, but those conditions don't happen often, at least not where I'm at. If it's less than 12kts I'd rather be proning or doing something else.

I own every size Score. I share the quiver with my wife.

5.2 and 3.5m

5.2m has the range to jump right to 3.5m.

I prefer to use a bigger foil with the 5.2m over rigging a 6.2m.

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DWF said..
I own every size Score. I share the quiver with my wife.

5.2 and 3.5m

5.2m has the range to jump right to 3.5m.

I prefer to use a bigger foil with the 5.2m over rigging a 6.2m.

Thanks for info. How do you rate the 6.2 compared to the 5.2. Is the extra low end worth it?

I agree winds under 12 knots, personally I prefer to do other things - prone foiling, kiting, etc. Just a personal decision given time limitations. I sold my big gear and gave up the low end. Currently just own one wing (4.8m) PPC. If you're considering an Ensis, I would also suggest looking at PPC. They are similar wings. Personally I prefer the rigid handles and connection to the central strut of the PPC. But some prefer the slightly lower aspect of Ensis over the flatter PPC.

I have been on a 3.5m + 5m quiver ( smiks but now changed to 4.8m ppc) and feel like this covers everything I need. With a couple different sized foil front wings I can mix and match and easily cover the wind range from 12 knots to 30+ knots without any real gap. I feel like both of those sizes are the best wind range sizes not too big not too small, can stretch the wind range out on either end for both sizes.

I am self employed so sub 12 Knots I should really be working!

What do you weigh young breezy??


my son and i share 4.8/3.8 and 2.8 ppc but yeh im 90 percent on the bigger two. Really like the 3.8. - which i was on mostly but 4.8 since the sink start thing happened.

thing is the 2.8 is such a ball tearer when you can get on it and you can get on it more early than youd think.
so yeh two wing quiver really between us.

Hey eppo I am 100kg but as I am sup foiling a lot I will often use my 6'5" sup for the light wind days so that extends the low end a lot. Mostly on a 5'4" 111L One wing board.

I reckon the 4.8m PPC would get me down to about 10 knots with the sup and axis 1010 which is my biggest wing if I was really pushing it. Definitely tempted to swap the 3.5m smik for a 2.8m PPC that would be a very nice little wing.

If FOne actually was comparable to Australian prices, I would get a 4.2 Strike and 8m CWC. That would cover everything with minimal crossover. That being said, I owned 4/5 WASPs until I recently got a 6. Fair to say the 5 will be going soon, as the only time I can honestly see myself using it, is for blasting in flat water in high wind. I do tend to find the 4 a bit of a handful up range, but at that point, I'd rather be a bit overpowered than under.

One disadvantage of a two wing quiver is that you have no backup. Wings aren't the most reliable of toys, same as kites, going to the beach with no backup results in missed sessions. I run a 5.5, 4 and 3.3, if any fail during pump up or damaged in use, the next size is generally usable in the conditions. If you only have 2 wings, say a 5.5 and a 3,5, neither cover the other very well, but add a 4 and your sweet if either fails.

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airsail said..
One disadvantage of a two wing quiver is that you have no backup. Wings aren't the most reliable of toys, same as kites, going to the beach with no backup results in missed sessions. I run a 5.5, 4 and 3.3, if any fail during pump up or damaged in use, the next size is generally usable in the conditions. If you only have 2 wings, say a 5.5 and a 3,5, neither cover the other very well, but add a 4 and your sweet if either fails.

Good advice.
I had a 4 and 6.
Bought a 3.5 and a 5 but only sold the 6.

The 4m is worn and baggy but like you say it is a good backup for both.
Plus it pulls like a truck on low end vs the flatter 3.5, so i end up using it quite a bit on those "i am not sure" days.

5.0 + 3.5 (Slicks) works great for me at 70kg here in Finland. I got the 3.5 only recently and I've now used it 4 times in a row.

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rgmacca said..

Thanks for info. How do you rate the 6.2 compared to the 5.2. Is the extra low end worth it?

Probably 1 knot better low end. 7m and 5.2m is a better gap, if I had a 7m.

So play it safe. Go 5.2m and 3.5m. You'll be happier. You can always waste money later, if you become obsessed with gear.

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Velocicraptor said..

juandesooka said..
I have been rocking 4 / 6. I hate getting skunked so a 6m maxes low end. I have had a half dozen 40kt sessions where I wish I had a 3m.

Now I got an ocean Rodeo aluula 5m, it's low end range is wider so I think it can work as my big wing. Also got a 3m (HL series), but remains to be seen if I will miss my 4m go to.

I'm considering this same setup. Wish the glide came in a 3.5. Let us know how this works for you.

I have buddies who rock 3m's in what seems ridiculously light conditions ... so I am hoping it'll work (once it gets windy again).
re: Glide 3.5m....I suspect that may be the case, when you consider A-series against HL. I am guessing the added stiffness of aluula leading edge will gain something like half a wing size. Sure feels that way for my 5m. Will find out soon/eventually how my 3m HL covers the lower edge of my usual 4m wind range. Or if I will feel the need and burning desire to go full aluula.

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DWF said..

rgmacca said..

Thanks for info. How do you rate the 6.2 compared to the 5.2. Is the extra low end worth it?

Probably 1 knot better low end. 7m and 5.2m is a better gap, if I had a 7m.

So play it safe. Go 5.2m and 3.5m. You'll be happier. You can always waste money later, if you become obsessed with gear.

Obsessed already lol. thanks for advice.

Thanks for advice guys, appreciate it. think I'm leaning towards 2 wings, the 5.2 and 3.5 Score. could always add bigger next summer or give up on the marginal days. cheers.

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rgmacca said..
Thanks for advice guys, appreciate it. think I'm leaning towards 2 wings, the 5.2 and 3.5 Score. could always add bigger next summer or give up on the marginal days. cheers.

Marginal days ... in the honeymoon period, you want to chase anything! But beyond that, for flat water, I tend to agree with the commenters that say if wind is less than 12kt, maybe ride a bike or something else, wait for some decent wind. As there's no wind swell to play in anyway when wind is that light.

The exception is in actual surf. When it's blowing 10-14kt and there's perfect rideable waves to be had ... that pushes the desire for an effective light wind option! I have had a couple pretty epic sessions this early surf season where the wind was barely enough to get on foil....you slog until wave comes, then pump hard as it crests behind you, just enough forward momentum that it pushes you up on foil, immediately luff the wave and surf foil it. My 5m aluula was able to keep up with buddy's 6m fone, though he had a slight upwind advantage.

At the high end, I was able to make my ozone 4m work in 45kt wind, as you can spill off wind effectively. Borrowing my friend's 3m was SO much more comformtable. I have been riding a duotone unit 4m lately -- I suspect from high 30s up it would be uncontrollable, very strong and powerful wing, I doubt I could feather it same way as my ozone. So, for your 3.5m...seems these wings either have a great low end or great high end, you don't get both.

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juandesooka said..

rgmacca said..
Thanks for advice guys, appreciate it. think I'm leaning towards 2 wings, the 5.2 and 3.5 Score. could always add bigger next summer or give up on the marginal days. cheers.

Marginal days ... in the honeymoon period, you want to chase anything! But beyond that, for flat water, I tend to agree with the commenters that say if wind is less than 12kt, maybe ride a bike or something else, wait for some decent wind. As there's no wind swell to play in anyway when wind is that light.

The exception is in actual surf. When it's blowing 10-14kt and there's perfect rideable waves to be had ... that pushes the desire for an effective light wind option! I have had a couple pretty epic sessions this early surf season where the wind was barely enough to get on foil....you slog until wave comes, then pump hard as it crests behind you, just enough forward momentum that it pushes you up on foil, immediately luff the wave and surf foil it. My 5m aluula was able to keep up with buddy's 6m fone, though he had a slight upwind advantage.

At the high end, I was able to make my ozone 4m work in 45kt wind, as you can spill off wind effectively. Borrowing my friend's 3m was SO much more comformtable. I have been riding a duotone unit 4m lately -- I suspect from high 30s up it would be uncontrollable, very strong and powerful wing, I doubt I could feather it same way as my ozone. So, for your 3.5m...seems these wings either have a great low end or great high end, you don't get both.

Can confirm the range of the 4m wasp. I've taken mine to 46, wouldn't be racing to do it again, but it is doable. A bit like wrestling a gator, but when you get caught out, you need to get in one way or another.

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King Crash said..
Can confirm the range of the 4m wasp. I've taken mine to 46, wouldn't be racing to do it again, but it is doable. A bit like wrestling a gator, but when you get caught out, you need to get in one way or another.

I was surprised I was able to make it work....and it was legit 40plus, as I had to help a friend crash land his 4m kite, being yarded out of control. But I went right back out and had a fun session, while the kites were all grounded. At 40 plus, it is really interesting how your body becomes a sail, even when the wing is luffed you are ripping down wind. I think that's part of how those wingless wonders are doing those downwinders.

I digress...back to topic. Every wing has a range, so the quiver choice is about how those circles intersect, to cover off the wind range you want to ride, and optimizing overlap. Too much space between wings means you are always feeling like you're on the wrong wing, as the sweet spot is in the middle. Having all the wings means financial ruin and divorce, but you are well covered for your sessions and the gear lasts twice as long when each wing is used 50% less.

For 12 to 30 knots I'd be looking at a 5 and a 3.5, but would likely be having a lot of sessions off the sweet spot as my current goto is a 4.
If you're a heavy user (around 150 sessions a year or more) I recommend a 3 wing quiver .Wings/kites are consumables, they bag out after a while, they're probably good for about 100-150 sessions before they're spent. Get more wings and replace less often costs the same in the end. Riding them overpowered definitely shortens their life with all the fluttering. Riding underpowered is also not ideal for longevity if you're having to do lots of aggressive pumping.

Yeh same 4m sweet spot.

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eppo said..
Yeh same 4m sweet spot.

PPC 3.8 is a 4.5 really

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StephenZ said..
For 12 to 30 knots I'd be looking at a 5 and a 3.5, but would likely be having a lot of sessions off the sweet spot as my current goto is a 4.
If you're a heavy user (around 150 sessions a year or more) I recommend a 3 wing quiver .Wings/kites are consumables, they bag out after a while, they're probably good for about 100-150 sessions before they're spent. Get more wings and replace less often costs the same in the end. Riding them overpowered definitely shortens their life with all the fluttering. Riding underpowered is also not ideal for longevity if you're having to do lots of aggressive pumping.

That is spot on. 5m is my go-to wing at 105kg. The 4 and 6 get less use. The 4m suffers the most as it goes out in strong gusty wind but the 5m gets used way more so needs to be replaced sooner.
Get the best wing for you and your conditions and build a quiver around it.

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JuriM said..
5.0 + 3.5 (Slicks) works great for me at 70kg here in Finland. I got the 3.5 only recently and I've now used it 4 times in a row.

I am landlocked in Austria 83kg - use Slicks mainly 7 and 5 on our lakes - but have also 3,5 for seaside.
had in the past Echo 4 and 6 (it was always too small or too big)

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hangloose said..

JuriM said..
5.0 + 3.5 (Slicks) works great for me at 70kg here in Finland. I got the 3.5 only recently and I've now used it 4 times in a row.

I am landlocked in Austria 83kg - use Slicks mainly 7 and 5 on our lakes - but have also 3,5 for seaside.
had in the past Echo 4 and 6 (it was always too small or too big)

I can definitely relate to the "4m too small" and "6m too big" dilemma.

But for just 2 wings covering 12-30 knot 6m and 4m, or 5m and 3.5m sound about right

My current "splurge" quiver. Slick 6m, 5m, 4m Echo 3.3m. (Really wish they did the Slick in a 3.3m like they did the Echo. My 2 most used wings by far are the 5m and 4m at my home spot. 76 kg at the moment and living on the OBX. I've had single sessions start underpowered on my 6m and finish overpowered on my 3.3. Always having something to cover the sweet spot (except for the crazy extremes) is awesome