Read this on kiters forum but could effect all of us

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/General/Scarborough-Beach-Mgmt-Plan-WAKSA-Meeting/

I have emailed Juddy the president of WAKSA with my concerns on the subject which has been noted and will put forward (saftey and emergency access) after a few serious incidents last summer if we are moved to a more secluded spot.

Break-ins may increase also

WAKSA is doing a great in trying to keep access open to all water user.They are even going into bat for us.

99% of the kiters and windsurfers do the right thing at scarbs anyway its the 1% that draw the negative attention and thats what causes the damage and then we get moved to designated areas

My first reaction was bloody kiters have caused this but i think with the redevelopment of scarbs it would of been on the agender to put everybody into areas anyway.


If it wasn't for WAKSA i wounldn't have known nor would many others.SO well done to these guys.

Didnt see anything mentioned from Windsurf WA to highlight the problem

If anyone has some proactive ideas to try and come up with a good solution send an email or Pm to Juddy @ WAKSA and help save the best spot in perth.

Its going to take a bit more than just saying ban the kiters as its everybody whos effected here

Hi Gazza

I have just emailed the Windsurfing WA committee members the link to your post, the kite surfing post and the planning document. I will raise it at the at the next meeting which is a two weeks away (i think).

Thanks for raising the issue. Living in Fremantle I had no idea there was a new management plan proposal.

For all issues like this email info@windsurfingwa.org.au and the email goes to all the committe members. If you want to speak to someone the committee contact details are up on the site to www.windsurfingwa.org.au

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TimB said...

Hi Gazza

I have just emailed the Windsurfing WA committee members the link to your post, the kite surfing post and the planning document. I will raise it at the at the next meeting which is a two weeks away (i think).

Thanks for raising the issue. Living in Fremantle I had no idea there was a new management plan proposal.

For all issues like this email info@windsurfingwa.org.au and the email goes to all the committe members. If you want to speak to someone the committee contact details are up on the site to www.windsurfingwa.org.au

Thanks Tim

Juddy did say in his email to me that he was going to get in contact with you guys as well.

Its a shame nobody on our side know about it as WAKAS had around 25 members attend the meeting.
It would have been good to have some voice's from the windsurfers.

Can you keep us posted

Thanks Gazza

I sailed Scarbs for years and have never injured anyone or know of any other windsurfer who has but have had a few close calls with kites and have been wrapped up in kite lines in the shore brake.
I don't mind saying it, it's not the 1% of wind surfers at Scarbs that cause trouble, it's the 25% of kiters that do. The shame of it is that when they do something stupid we get associated with them.
Now for the BIG question; GAZZA, WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU DOING OVER THAT SIDE OF THE FENCE??

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Mr. No-one said...

I sailed Scarbs for years and have never injured anyone or know of any other windsurfer who has but have had a few close calls with kites and have been wrapped up in kite lines in the shore brake.
I don't mind saying it, it's not the 1% of wind surfers at Scarbs that cause trouble, it's the 25% of kiters that do. The shame of it is that when they do something stupid we get associated with them.
Now for the BIG question; GAZZA, WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU DOING OVER THAT SIDE OF THE FENCE??

i honestly can't explain how i got there but i didn't like what i saw,it was all strange, people with what appeared to be shorts over wetsuits and heaps of people shouting at each other.

Its way nicer over here!!!!!

Few, you had me worried there.

IT'S OK EVERYONE, HE'S STILL STRAIGHT!

I think its funny how windsurfers have been around for many years and the local councils have been very helpful by putting signs up to warn the public that "windsurfers frequent area".

I really do hope that things get sorted out for the bennifit of all of us

please post your feedback on the master plan proposal here ASAP and ill ensure the WWA delegate who attends the meeting on Thursday is heard... ive contacted the Architects responsible for the master plan but havent heard back from them, we may have to try the front door at the public meeting.

also if you'd like to attend in support of windsurfing then contact me and we can put forward our ideas/concerns etc. together

you better speak to your brother in law about the new spot he discovered today

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WINDY MILLER said...

you better speak to your brother in law about the new spot he discovered today

Sssssshhhhhh!!!!!!

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WINDY MILLER said...

you better speak to your brother in law about the new spot he discovered today

i have we beat him to it,you and i have already sup on it,that place is so yesterday

Just so we all know what we are talking about, here is a pic of the plan. There is only one (!) designated area for wind and kitesurfers at the north end of Scarborough (no 24). I am not sure its the right thing to put us all in one spot.... Guess the planner hasnt been a guest of this forum before

or tried carrying windsurfing gear down to the beach.

If clubbies did the right thing and made sure the swimmers swim between the flags and we keep out of them can't see the problem or need for areas plus where are the surfer going to go they can hardly move the areas according to the banks.

can see it now "sorry you can't surf that waves its 3 meters into the inflatable mattress zone"

Many many years ago a City of Stirling COS councilor wanting to make a name for himself and climb the political ladder, heard about the friction between surfers, boogie borders, surf skis and windsurfers mainly at Trigg. He put forward a plan to segregate the different water users and allocated I think it was about a 200m stretch for the windsurfers to use in the COS beaches
So John Geyer from SOS and a few sailors(30) formed and association, met with the local counselors a few times, suggested some ideas that fed this persons ego and made him look good. The COS then put up all those warning signs "beware windsurfers frequent this area" and that was it.
Looks like another ladder climbing tosser wants his ego stroked or has higher political aspirations and needs to stomp on some water users heads to get where he wants to go.

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caipi said...


Just so we all know what we are talking about, here is a pic of the plan. There is only one (!) designated area for wind and kitesurfers at the north end of Scarborough (no 24)

You have got to be kidding me!? Can you imagine if all of us windsurfers including the kiteboarders parked, rigged, launch and sailed in this area?
Whats wrong with the existing areas? It works. Apart from when the bloke with the purple kite and sunnies thinks its cool to stray from his pride
So whats stopping us from using the same rigging area? Will there be fines? Who polices these rules?
On the positive side at least they have increased the existing grassed area for more rigging space and added a nice wooden broadwalk down to the beach

We are appealing to all interested parties to attend the public meeting tomorrow night to learn more and discuss the proposed development at Scarborough Beach. The developments WILL impact on YOU if you sail in or around Scarborough!

We need to make application to the City of Stirling to voice our opinions and the quantity of submissions is crucial to the volume of our collective voices.

WWA are going to work on the main issues and harmonize our feedback but in the first instance we need people to attend in support of our right to use this beach and influence the nature of the proposed development.

Public information evening on the revised Scarborough Beach Urban Design Master Plan
When Thursday 2 September 2010
Where Maureen Grierson Community Recreation Centre
The Esplanade, Scarborough.
Time 5.30pm to 8.30 pm

The City would like to invite the public to an information evening on the revised Scarborough Beach Urban Design Master Plan, which is currently available for public comment.

The public can attend any time during the above times to view the Master Plan's information details. The City's Master Plan consultants and staff will be in attendance to identify key community issues and perspectives and answer any questions.

No registration will be required.

Submissions
Submissions on the revised Master Plan should be made by 13 September 2010.

In writing to the:
Chief Executive Officer
City of Stirling
25 Cedric Street
Stirling WA 6021

Regards,
Nic MacCormac
WWA Secretary

It's important not to get too freaked out about this: read the actual proposal before getting all wound up.

I've had a scan of the actual plan document (http://www.stirling.wa.gov.au/Home/Development/Projects/Scarborough+Beach+Urban+Design+Master+Plan.htm ), and people might be making a fuss about not much.

1)There's nothing I can find in the plan about banning sailing or kiting at any location. What it does say is to build a purpose built rig up area at point 24. Taking the document at face value, the worst that may happen is that the relocation of the bottom car park we currently use would make the current spot harder to walk to; you might have to rig up at point 12/13. OK, they may try to get folk to use the "designated" facility, but right now that's not the same as closing the current spot. The biggest ball ache might be during construction; access will be a nightmare for everyone.

So the most important thing is not to get hysterical and start screaming about sailing bans. If we are to influence the CoS, it must be measured and professional. Descending en masse on a meeting and protesting about stuff that's not actually on the cards will just get us ignored. Letting WWA and WAKSA lead is a good plan, as long as they keep cool too.

2)Let's face it: this is Perth, and even if a ban was put in place, it's far to slack for anyone to seriously enforce restrictions properly. There's been a semi ban on kiting at Dutchys for a couple of years, and I've never seen anyone pulled up. Ditto Lancelin foreshore - except if Werner starts yelling. Even surfing on Cott beach in the summer is tolerated if you're not stupid around swimmers.

3)It's a consultation proposal, not a firm plan, so not approved or underway in any form. Councils come up with these all the time (like the wild plans which appear in the West Australian from time to time for the city foreshore or the Perth Link), but they almost never get made as they're impractical and stupidly costly. It's more an exercise in grandstanding and wasting money on consultants (and if anyone goes to the meeting, ask why it's all Chinese and Thai consulting firms doing this - but would explain the lack of understanding of surf activities). So I'd bet only a fraction of this ever gets done. Generally, next election, the new CoS councillors will scream at the cost, and bin the last council's plans and come up with something even more daft .

4)Even if CoS gets the cash (hello Financial Crisis), and the agreements to actually try this, it's massive. So would be years and years before anything would change. It'll be more of a worry for our kids than us.

5)Is there really much difference between the proposed spot and the current one? Waves are the same, wind is the same, and we're away from the clubbies and swimmers. The concerns about theft and safety are rubbish - no worse or better than it is now because it's only sailors there in the evenings at the current spot, and the whole plan is to increase people there, and spread out the people across the beach. There's a whole bunch of "don't wanna change/don't wanna be told what to do" on the forums. With a properly located, properly sized (the current one isn't exactly huge!) and posh rig up area, this could end up better than we have now, so we need to keep an open mind and not reject just for the hell of it.


That said, it's certainly worth getting to the meeting and having a talk with the council, get the details and get our voice heard. If you can't get there, use the online submission form: survey.stirling.wa.gov.au/checkbox/Survey.aspx?s=12e8ad0911154b839e71206378e8bfc2&ForceNew=true to have your say. But let's keep it calm and collected, or we will be ignored.

Actually the proposed location seems as if its downwind of the hotel, and awnings and what not out there. Wind it that area is greatly affected by those obstructions. As a result, kiting may still happen, but windsurfing might become quite hard.. Look at the map for clarification. I think those that sail there regulary know that the further downwind you get the less wind there is...

Just relax ppls.
WWA is currently putting together a submission.
We will also generate a shorter submission and make it available for everyone to cut and paste into the form and email to CoS.
This way we can reinforce with numbers what WWA is after.

This issue will also be discussed at the committee meeting on wednesday night at Nedlands Yacht club (tbc).
cheers

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Bertie said...

Just relax ppls.
WWA is currently putting together a submission.
We will also generate a shorter submission and make it available for everyone to cut and paste into the form and email to CoS.
This way we can reinforce with numbers what WWA is after.

This issue will also be discussed at the committee meeting on wednesday night at Nedlands Yacht club (tbc).
cheers

good onya Bertie

WWA committee meeting tonight 7PM at Nedlands Junior Clubhouse to discuss and agree on our position for this development and outline the points we need to be included in submissions. The key point for everyone to realise is that WWA can make a submission but it only counts for one voice so we need as many people who have an interest in and around the area to make their own submissions, echoing our points, via the online submission form. more details to follow after tonights meeting. Remember that submissions are required before 13th of September.

What WWA have agreed they want from the development master plan:

1. Windsurfing zone to be maintained in current location (not the designated area north of the SLSC).
2. We also would like to limit the reduction of the number of the car parks adjacent to the SLSC because of the additional pressure that will be created by the proposed Restaurants and Family Facilities.
3.WWA would like to ensure that wide pathways are provided down to the beach to facilitate easy transportation of equipment.

We believe we should maintain the current access and parking for the following reasons:

• Tourism - Scarborough has a national and international reputation for being a world class destination for windsurfing and spectators of Windsurfing
• Scarborough is an Elite training spot for Windsurfing
• Windsurfing is an Olympic Sport
• World champions enjoy sailing at Scarborough
• The 1993 Professional Windsurfing Association World Cup Slalom event was held in Scarborough.
• Excluding us from would add pressure on other spots such at Mettams which are already over-crowed due to the limited beach access.
• Scarborough has been used historically for windsurfing recreation and competitions and future events are being planned.
• The current location frequented by Windsurfers is adjacent to the SLSC, this is due to the naturally occurring wind and wave conditions that suit windsurfing and these conditions are more critical for windsurfing than other wind-sports, such as kiting. Other spots along the Scarborough coast do not work as well if at all. The proposed location often suffers from disturbed wind flow from buildings and structures.
• The current location is a logical position and provides excellent elevated sightlines for the judging of competitions. The proposed location would require the erection of temporary structures to achieve required elevation for judging.
• Many sailors and kiters do down-winders finishing at Scarborough. Future down-wind sailing comps are currently being planned. If moved to the North, possible conflict with other water users could occur as competitors come into beach finish. Much safer for other users if windsurf/kite surf area kept on south side.
• An attempt to ban windsurfing in 1999 failed because there was no grounds for the exclusion. The resolution of the attempted exclusion resulted in a sign being erected indicating that “windsurfers frequent this area”.
• Windsurfing in the area has a good safety Record
• Windsurfing and the associated tourism helps supports local businesses
• Windsurfing adds colour and life to the Beach
• Windsurfers only tend to use the beach when others wouldn’t normally frequent the area i.e. when winds are over 15 knots in summer and/or during winter storms.
• The current location provides Windsurfers with some level of reassurance by the proximity to the SLSC and is close to the Emergency Vehicle access.
• The proposed location although currently doesn’t allow for exclusion zones elsewhere is of concern as it may form the impetus for future exclusions zones.

WWA needs your help. Please review our list of points and if you agree with them, BE ACTIVE (!) and include them into your own submission via the following link http://survey.stirling.wa.gov.au/checkbox/Survey.aspx?s=12e8ad0911154b839e71206378e8bfc2&ForceNew=true


it shouldnt take much time at all but it should ensure that our right to access the Scarborough Beach location is maintained.

Regards,

Nic MacCormac

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stringer said...

What WWA have agreed they want from the development master plan:

1. Windsurfing zone to be maintained in current location (not the designated area north of the SLSC).
2. We also would like to limit the reduction of the number of the car parks adjacent to the SLSC because of the additional pressure that will be created by the proposed Restaurants and Family Facilities.
3.WWA would like to ensure that wide pathways are provided down to the beach to facilitate easy transportation of equipment.

We believe we should maintain the current access and parking for the following reasons:

? Tourism - Scarborough has a national and international reputation for being a world class destination for windsurfing and spectators of Windsurfing
? Scarborough is an Elite training spot for Windsurfing
? Windsurfing is an Olympic Sport
? World champions enjoy sailing at Scarborough
? The 1993 Professional Windsurfing Association World Cup Slalom event was held in Scarborough.
? Excluding us from would add pressure on other spots such at Mettams which are already over-crowed due to the limited beach access.
? Scarborough has been used historically for windsurfing recreation and competitions and future events are being planned.
? The current location frequented by Windsurfers is adjacent to the SLSC, this is due to the naturally occurring wind and wave conditions that suit windsurfing and these conditions are more critical for windsurfing than other wind-sports, such as kiting. Other spots along the Scarborough coast do not work as well if at all. The proposed location often suffers from disturbed wind flow from buildings and structures.
? The current location is a logical position and provides excellent elevated sightlines for the judging of competitions. The proposed location would require the erection of temporary structures to achieve required elevation for judging.
? Many sailors and kiters do down-winders finishing at Scarborough. Future down-wind sailing comps are currently being planned. If moved to the North, possible conflict with other water users could occur as competitors come into beach finish. Much safer for other users if windsurf/kite surf area kept on south side.
? An attempt to ban windsurfing in 1999 failed because there was no grounds for the exclusion. The resolution of the attempted exclusion resulted in a sign being erected indicating that "windsurfers frequent this area".
? Windsurfing in the area has a good safety Record
? Windsurfing and the associated tourism helps supports local businesses
? Windsurfing adds colour and life to the Beach
? Windsurfers only tend to use the beach when others wouldn't normally frequent the area i.e. when winds are over 15 knots in summer and/or during winter storms.
? The current location provides Windsurfers with some level of reassurance by the proximity to the SLSC and is close to the Emergency Vehicle access.
? The proposed location although currently doesn't allow for exclusion zones elsewhere is of concern as it may form the impetus for future exclusions zones.

Good work on a factual, smart and solid points for the submission.

I'm from NSW and hope to one day shortly roadtrip over to WA to sail many spots (including Scarbs) - and so do many NSW and other sailors - that's gotta help the economy within the local council area! Hence my concern for potential degradation of the windsurfing conditions/facilities/amenity there.

Maybe mention its has featured/been promoted via worldwide distributed videos (which ones?) and user videos as a quality windsurfing location - touro $.

Goodluck with your submission and hope to one day catch you all out on the water there!

Ive done mine

Survey Response: Scarborough Beach Urban Design Master Plan
Response GUID: 6d1155f6-3841-4e76-ad0c-6f03XXXXXXXX
Started: 9/09/2010 10:21:13 PM
Completed: 9/09/2010 10:31:31 PM

Its easy, just cut and paste what stringer said! change the WWA to "i" and correct the spelling mistakes
Done mine!
Survey Response: Scarborough Beach Urban Design Master Plan
Response GUID: 7332526a-7742-4224-ba4a-077884ebfd21
Started: 10/09/2010 6:25:56 AM
Completed: 10/09/2010 6:28:20 AM

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tobyhodgso said...

Its easy, just cut and paste what stringer said! change the WWA to "i" and correct the spelling mistakes
Done mine!
Survey Response: Scarborough Beach Urban Design Master Plan
Response GUID: 7332526a-7742-4224-ba4a-077884ebfd21
Started: 10/09/2010 6:25:56 AM
Completed: 10/09/2010 6:28:20 AM

what spelling mistakes!

Survey Response: Scarborough Beach Urban Design Master Plan
Response GUID: a70a90b5-1685-41cd-8f67-ddf157f828ea
Started: 10/09/2010 9:21:38 AM
Completed: 10/09/2010 9:24:19 AM

Remember your proposals are due in by this Monday!!! 13/9/10 !!!! get cracking ppls

Dont worry Stringer,I sent mine thru and they will be that busy laughing at all my spelling/punctuation mistakes they wont even notice any you made.(Not that I could find any)
This cut and paste thing lost me a month of my tax recently Toby.

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fullmoon said...

Dont worry Stringer,I sent mine thru and they will be that busy laughing at all my spelling/punctuation mistakes they wont even notice any you made.(Not that I could find any)
This cut and paste thing lost me a month of my tax recently Toby.

thats what you wanted though isnt it benny? sorry mr taxman, mr cut n paste ate my tax records