The other week sailing in about half mast I got timing wrong and landed over the back of a wave in a heap. Took the next wave on the head then just as the next set arrived I waterstarted in the direction of the beach, as the face started to pick me up. Only option really. I was about 10m downwind of the breaking section and it was looking to be a lovely sized wave.

Now as I popped up another sailer swooped in front of me from downwind and downline heading past me and up to the breaking section which was upwind. To avoid possible collision i luffed up hard as i was popping up on to the board. The sailor then turned his head an yelled "good one mate!" From his tone i don't think he was praising my waterstart technique

Now in my view, I was not powered and could not see the other sailor as he would have been have behind me and hidden from my view at waterline by the approaching wave, as i was getting into water start position. He was sailing so had the better view, upwind so a clear view of me and the wave plus he was powered.

Which left me wondering what is the surf etiquette in such a situation. In my mind he was powered, had better view and was downwind and downline from me plus on same tack so I was not committing any surf crime. But was I? that what I've been wondering.

He could of gone wider around me, chose the next wave or just rode the wave behind me waiting to see what i did. But he didn't and he complained. If he hadn't complained i wouldn't of thought twice about who was right or wrong. I was looking for him on the beach later to see what his view was but didn't find him.

Normally if i'm down in the waves and i see another guy riding i'll wait. standard surf etiquette.
what's anyone else view?

The other guy has very low self esteem and has a very big inner critique he was porobably critiqued by his parents, by being critical to you it would build up his own inner self and his sarcasm is because he lacks the communication skills to be assertive and he also sounds selfish.

you were in the wrong - the usual norm is do not engage in ?pre-emptive or opportunistic wave catching? - you may have water-stated and found yourself in a good position to catch that wave - but from the other sailors POV - he couldn't see your intention, was probably expecting you to continue heading out not in. Wouldn't worry too much about it.

Brett, Waterstarting between sets and heading out just down from the lip is not often possible as not enough time to gain momentum to get over the wave and one tends to find oneself back in same situation of having to waterstart.

I get you point of grabing a wave and if he hadn't of swooped round you bet i would have gone for the ride. However he could see my intention as board facing the beach and I'm on the opposite side of the side to him. Pretty clear situation.

but Brett surely staying in the wave zone waiting for a long enough period between sets to jump up and gain a bit of drive to get over the wave (these were half mast clean sets) would risk you gear and be a obstacle for other sails as I'm only just down from the break which would spoil their ride. My view is best to get out the way asap.

I'm not worried as i'm use to old boy surfers atitude at surf breaks around perth when surfing but just wondering if there is any clear etiquette here.

If I were water-starting in the breaking zone, I'd always be looking just to get the hell out of there and not ride a wave. You can't always see who is around you, and for all you know someone else could have been riding that swell in for some time, had rights to the that wave, and was just waiting for it to kick up. You have no rights to a wave in that position, even if upwind.

However, if the other sailor saw that you were just recovering knew you were just trying to avoid a rinse cycle from the next breaking wave, then he should also cut you some slack. He should give you some room to recover, but equally you should try and stay out of his way so that he can ride the wave.

^^^ agreed - other sailor was cutting hard upwind to get to the peak and Peguin interfered with that. But Peguin could not see other sailor (can't see who is downwind of you when waterstarting!) so the yelling sounds a bit harsh.

This season I am getting more annoyed with people parking - seems to suddenly be more prevalent

If you had just popped up and proceeded to a ride a wave for which he was already on and working to a good position, you were in the wrong.

If you had just popped up to get out of there and did not ride the wave, but got in his way as he rode up wind, well not really in the wrong, but I can see why he may have been annoyed.

No matter what, there is no one on the water that can say they have never got in someone else's way or dropped in on someone, intentionally or not. So just chalk it up to part of riding waves, turn around and get another one.

What does annoy me is having a person clearly on a swell on a wave in front of you, while you are on the next one in a slightly downwind position. They look over the back of the wave they are on and decide to stall for the next wave, ending up upwind and closer to peak position than you on "your" wave. I call this a snake, but others will say the downwind rider has dropped in as the wave has no real face or section yet. Either way I reckon it's poor form.

Dip916 is right.

The other guy had right of way given that he was on the wave first. However he has an obligation to avoid you even though you were in the way of him riding the optimum part of the wave.

What should have happened:
- he should have stayed clear (downwind) of you and
- when you water started you should have either
- turned off the wave (if that was possible) or
- headed upwind ahead of the wave and away from the other sailor or
- if you had seen the other sailor, delayed your water start until after the wave had passed

I reckon Rider & Aus301 are both right.

When you are wave sailing things like this happen fairly regularly. It's not that unusual to come in, set up the lip you want to hit, but then have to change your timing because someone is wallowing in the surf after being cleaned up by the previous wave. It's just part of the deal, and no biggie really. You just turn round and catch another wave-it's not the end of the world.

Aus 301-what you describe is definitely snaking and I reckon you should just ignore the snake in this situation and claim your swell. Unlike the example above this is worth raising your voice about if necessary...It gets even more complicated when kiters are involved, because these guys often have a habit of sailing in front of the swell and waiting for it to catch up to them, which puts you in exactly this position if you are the poley that has come in on the swell. Clear communication usually sorts it out...

Cheers, Jens

If I'm a better sailor than the guy on the swell (most times) then I'm entitled to that wave no matter how long the other guy has been waiting. It's called the lineup hierarchy. I'll just gybe onto the wave and take it. The lesser skilled guy can learn from watching me.

Haha figjam

I'm still puzzled here. What is the actual problem statement we're trying to articulate?

I see two points of focus in this thread.
1) Getting waves when you want
2) Shouting at people

The rule is simple: Get whatever waves you want when you want, and shout at who you want when you want.

The first issue is never a problem for me because when I decide to get a wave, people are usually too busy getting out of the water to grab their cameras.
In regards to shouting at people on the water, my view is if you don't shout at people then you aren't sailing properly.
I like to practice it out of the water as well, as sailing is all about the "before" and "after" atmosphere too.
For example, if someone is sitting in the carpark and eating a sandwich, I strut over to them and shout in their ear "Nice sandwich d!ckhead!" (and usually steal it depending on what type it is).

So in summary, this thread appears to be a non-issue.
Harden up girls!

Yours sincerely,
The B-man

p.s you're welcome

Not a lot you can do ,,,,you done everything right ,apart from falling off in the riding zone .........KOOKed it.... all been there ,and there is nothing worst than knowing all you can do is get water started and out of there (Lot of people forget it is at this point your ride is over finished fked kooked out ),,,,,,,,,hopefully before next set get you on the head and or in the way of the person riding.
It is the responsibility of the rider on the wave to give you room and manoeuvre around you , despite you being down right in the wack able zone,,,,,it goes with out saying your often going to get given some **** the look of death from the rider and or hes bound to send crystal ice cubes right at you of his rail ,just as your getting your **** together especially if you know the bastard of a child ,,,,,,,,,,

Nothing worse than being a lane duck ....to cop a spray or and aerial fly right over the top of you ....fken scarey........make sure you are seen if your not hanging on to your equipment that's for sure


Remember ............what comes around goes around

Ps Be aware the person could be in difficulty / gotta give some thought rection times after a swim or hold down will be to survive with out equipment damage and get into a safer zone to re group,,,,,,,,,,,if your intension is to add to that persons misery its not forgotton

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eyeMhardcor said..

If I'm a better sailor than the guy on the swell (most times) then I'm entitled to that wave no matter how long the other guy has been waiting. It's called the lineup hierarchy. I'll just gybe onto the wave and take it. The lesser skilled guy can learn from watching me.

until you get back to the beach and realise the guy one down in your hierarchy is 6 foot 7 and he is about to knock out your front teeth because you snaked his wave.

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king of the point said..
It is the responsibility of the rider on the wave to give you room and manoeuvre around you

That should be plastered on a 10x10 meter plague up at Gnaraloo so all the dick heads can read it from way out the back.

Actually I've changed my mind. I think Boris nailed it.

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stehsegler said...

king of the point said..
It is the responsibility of the rider on the wave to give you room and manoeuvre around you

That should be plastered on a 10x10 meter plague up at Gnaraloo so all the dick heads can read it from way out the back.

Gnara-where? Did u mean Eneabba?

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Hooksey said..

stehsegler said...

king of the point said..
It is the responsibility of the rider on the wave to give you room and manoeuvre around you

That should be plastered on a 10x10 meter plague up at Gnaraloo so all the dick heads can read it from way out the back.

Gnara-where? Did u mean Eneabba?

I guess you could replace the place name with <insert spot name here>.

I was more referring to the fact that so many people don't seem to know the first thing about "surf etiquette" or simply don't care. Especially in WA there are quite a few spots where tourists seem to think because it's their 2 weeks of holiday they have the right to snake every single wave that's rolling in with no respect for other people.