have been using 23cm JP fsw fin on higher wind days - seems to let me down a bit at awkward moments - any tips for sanding them and improving? What would you suggest as best fins for getting max control with 4.5/5.0 weather on JP FSW 93 (keen on something that will help stick a bottom turn etc..) ideas??

M F C
Take your pick, I would base your model choice on your size compared to the rider who the fin is designed for.

AB....

it can be hard finding a good small powerbox fin. you might have to get a good g10 US box 20cm fin or similar re-boxed. Some of the GPS speed guys in vic might have a powerbox mould to help facilitate this.

not many shops carry much of a range of small powerbox wave fins.

I know that Select fins have a generic base that allows you to mount it in a power, tuttle or trim box. I think it may be called a conic or something like that. Select fins are sweet. I have converted a 21cm US fin in the past to a powerbox using a conic fin adapter bought from Surf Sail Australia. Worked great, though it was a MFC Goya FPT.
Great with a 4.7m on a JP FSW 84.

AB...

select powerbox wave fins - good quality

in my experience mfc leaves select in it's wake.

mfc doesn't spin out unless you want to.
mfc doesn't whistle like a brass band on a broad reach
mfc doesn't have a retro fitted base that lets the fin wobble

i guess i don't like my select X1 evo

like big al said, with mfc , just pick any of them. one thing i've found with mfc is that what they say in the description is exactly wht you get.

Select to expand quote

seahorse said...

have been using 23cm JP fsw fin on higher wind days - seems to let me down a bit at awkward moments - any tips for sanding them and improving? What would you suggest as best fins for getting max control with 4.5/5.0 weather on JP FSW 93 (keen on something that will help stick a bottom turn etc..) ideas??

In my opinion a smaller fin will do little to help you bottom turn more effectively when overpowered on that board. I think in those conditions the board will just want to skip out no matter what fin you have in it. A 93L FSW just doesn't posses the shape or rails to be a good wave board in those conditions, unfortunately the best solution is to get a smaller wave board

you cant wave ride properly with a freestylewave. doesnt have the drive or rails for good bottom turns. the best freestyle wave for waves is the quatros. but still not comparable to a real wave board!

Thanks for the comments guys. Appreciate that I'd get better bottom turns with the wave gear. At the moment I'm only just getting from bay bump and jump to small surf - wouldn't really back myself in big waves for a while yet - my fin problems are in existence even going in a straight line in 20+ knots on the bay - just seems to let go at odd moments. I've had dedicated wave boards before and had MFC fins (US box) that I sold at the time. They were good fins and didn't have the probems I'm experiencing with the JP. I might get a 23/24 side shore wave for the turnability/control as it may give me a bit more confidence to get the FSW going in the surf. Agree that I'll need to look at swapping to a proper surf shape if I get some momentum in wave-sailing. Most of my sailing is in the bay (closer) so for now the FSW is probably the better overall choice. Appreciate your help

Seahorse,

I have said this elsewhere on this forum before. The JP stock fins are good alround fins but not particularly great at any thing. Especially for the FSW range I never understood why JP doesn't give the option of providing a set of high performance MFC fins.

I got a 92 FSW from '08 and found that the stock fin was ok but not great. I now swapped it for a couple of North Shore Maui fins. I use a 27 cm Freeride fin for bump and jump and a 25 cm wave fin for waves. It's simply amazing what additional performance I get out that board with that fin setup.

The FSW boards a simply my favourite boards with that fin setup... yes a twin fin is great in side shore down the line waves and a slalom board is awesome when you want top speed. But nothing comes close in versatility when you look at the 92/ 84 JP FSW. I don't rate the other board sizes in that range as much but I think with the 92/ 84 size boards JP has some real winners. If only they would finally add some real high performance fins to their boards. If I'd be JP I'd add a high performance upgrade option to the Pro Edition. Throw in a decent light weight foot strap setup as well as two different fins. Charge $300 for it. I'd buy it in a blink.

Re Bottom Turning:

Can the toes on your back foot touch the downwind rail? Is your front foot jammed in up to your ankle?

I'd check your stance/technique before worrying about the fin. Wide boards (60cm+) can be a dog to bottom turn.

Bucket can attest to this

Select to expand quote

CJW said...

In my opinion a smaller fin will do little to help you bottom turn more effectively when overpowered on that board. I think in those conditions the board will just want to skip out no matter what fin you have in it. A 93L FSW just doesn't posses the shape or rails to be a good wave board in those conditions, unfortunately the best solution is to get a smaller wave board

Sorry to say but this only makes sense if your weight is a measly 60kgs... in which case you might as well look in the kiddy section for a board.

If your weight is anywhere over 85 kgs., which is the norm if you are not a 5.8 decedent of midget parents, you it really will need a big swell with a lot of wind for that board to be too big if you use a good small wave fin.

Take this for example, I sailed Shoalhaven Heads in mushi 5 foot cross onshore slop. I was nicely powered on a 4.7 (probably could have gone the 4.2). I used a 24 cm MFC wave fin on an '08 JP FSW 92. Perfect setup for my weight and the conditions. There where a number of people out on twin fin boards with bigger sails. Most of the time they seem to be struggling on the way out... then when they got the plane they all seemed to be dogging along.

don't get me wrong. I think a twin fin board with low volume can be bliss in places like Gnaraloo... but unless you have a bottom less wallet most people will have a one or maybe two board setup. In my opinion the JP FSW 92/ 84 for many years have been the perfect all-round boards for our coastal conditions here in Australia.

No, I am not sponsored by JP (unlike some people that here on this forum that speak favourable of brands like Starboard or JP). Just ask anyone that has a 92 or 84 FSW. You won't hear anything bad... except perhaps for the so so fins they ship with the boards.

If anyone from JP or any other brand for that matter is reading this. Please listen up. Stop insisting on shipping mediocre fins with your pro edition boards. Spend a few dollars extra and provide the option of get a set of two good quality fins from companies like MFC at a reasonable price. You customers will thank you greatly for it!

Stehsegler - thanks for chipping in there - that helps me to stop doubting myself - I haven't done much in the waves and am aware of the shove the foot in technique etc. Agree with the comment on the fins - I got the cnc versions because I'd heard bad things but even these disappoint in general conditions. I'll try an MFC before re-thinking boards etc. Cheap experiment

My JP FSW 78 has the 23cm fin and I find it quite big in 5.0m weather. I have an MFC 22 and it makes a big difference in calming the board down and helping it stick to the water. The JP 23 is reasonably stiff and has a lot of surface area, it easily drives my 5.8m power wave sail....However uless your a heavyweight a FSW 93 sounds pretty big for those conditions.

Should clarify - I'm around the 90(ish) kilo mark and find it's really only at 30knots that the board is too big. Just keen on survival between the 30-35 mark - calming down is what I'm after.

Select to expand quote

stehsegler said...
Sorry to say but this only makes sense if your weight is a measly 60kgs... in which case you might as well look in the kiddy section for a board.

If your weight is anywhere over 85 kgs., which is the norm if you are not a 5.8 decedent of midget parents, you it really will need a big swell with a lot of wind for that board to be too big if you use a good small wave fin.

Take this for example, I sailed Shoalhaven Heads in mushi 5 foot cross onshore slop. I was nicely powered on a 4.7 (probably could have gone the 4.2). I used a 24 cm MFC wave fin on an '08 JP FSW 92. Perfect setup for my weight and the conditions. There where a number of people out on twin fin boards with bigger sails. Most of the time they seem to be struggling on the way out... then when they got the plane they all seemed to be dogging along.

don't get me wrong. I think a twin fin board with low volume can be bliss in places like Gnaraloo... but unless you have a bottom less wallet most people will have a one or maybe two board setup. In my opinion the JP FSW 92/ 84 for many years have been the perfect all-round boards for our coastal conditions here in Australia.

No, I am not sponsored by JP (unlike some people that here on this forum that speak favourable of brands like Starboard or JP). Just ask anyone that has a 92 or 84 FSW. You won't hear anything bad... except perhaps for the so so fins they ship with the boards.

If anyone from JP or any other brand for that matter is reading this. Please listen up. Stop insisting on shipping mediocre fins with your pro edition boards. Spend a few dollars extra and provide the option of get a set of two good quality fins from companies like MFC at a reasonable price. You customers will thank you greatly for it!

I've got the '09 92L FSW Pro Edition, and I have to say, the fin they supply with that is absolute rubbish. I was using a 96L starboard freestyle board before with a 24cm freestyle fin which track better and didn't slip out at all compared to the 27cm piece of rubbish that JP supply with their board.

That said, the board is great early planer in the bay, and bump and jump. But in my opinion, and at my weight somewhere between 70-75kg (depending on season/what i had for breakfast), I fine that the FSW is terrible in the waves. Thou, I'm only a beginner, but I've found that the thing just doesn't turn that well, I think at my weight it has too much volume in the rear to effectively set a rail and I find most of the time i end up just skipping around, and unable to carry good speed through turns.

So as far as a better fin goes, I have no idea, but I've had good experiences with MFC fins. Also in <5.0m weather, unless you are >85kg, the 92L is too big, and no amount of changing fins will really help you. Even if you are more then 85kgs, in 4.5 to 5.0 weather, you would be better off on an 80L board in my opinion, as i've seen guys who are that weight using 80L boards in 5.3 conditions with no problems.

The larger model JP waves or the big twinser would probably be a better option but again in 5.0 weather you ideally want something closer to your body weight in litres.

And no I'm not a JP sledger considering the 2 newest of my 4 board are both 09' JP pro edition boards, but in my opinion there are much better options for floaty/lightwind wave boards then the FSW.

btw, @ 5'9" and 73kg's, and i'd hardly say that is out of the 'norm'. Actually I suppose with australia being the worlds most obese nation maybe I'm not the norm. End of the day, I woulda though the norm in our sport would tend towards the lighter end of the scale.

Select to expand quote

But in my opinion, and at my weight somewhere between 70-75kg (depending on season/what i had for breakfast), I fine that the FSW is terrible in the waves.

at 70-75 kgs I would say you would be better off with a 85 liter FSW or All round wave board.

Select to expand quote

Thou, I'm only a beginner, but I've found that the thing just doesn't turn that well, I think at my weight it has too much volume in the rear to effectively set a rail and I find most of the time i end up just skipping around, and unable to carry good speed through turns.

The 92 FSW needs proper rail pressure. This is mostly due to the thick rails and tail of the board. With adequate pressure and a shorter fin (say 25cm) you will find the board turns actually quite well.

Select to expand quote

btw, @ 5'9" and 73kg's, and i'd hardly say that is out of the 'norm'. Actually I suppose with australia being the worlds most obese nation maybe I'm not the norm. End of the day, I woulda though the norm in our sport would tend towards the lighter end of the scale.

I think the issue is that most large people in OZ are 5'9" and weigh 130 kgs. . Just try and buy some jeans when you are 6'4" . when the fit length wise you feel like you are wearing a tent. That said I am guessing windsurf companies make boards for the majority of people in the sport which would be the European market.

Seahorse,

I forgot to mention. In addition to the fin setup make sure you ditch the double strap setup at the back for a single strap configuration. I found that unless you want use the board purely for racing the double strap setup makes very little sense.

Also, try the front straps in an outer position rather then close to the centre of the board. While the centre setup is great if you want to do freestyle I think you get more mileage out of the board by bring the front straps to the outside setting.

I think some of you are looking for too much in 1 board....especially a JP. Let's take a sec to look at the JP range for possible wave sailing.
1.Freestyle wave
2. Real World wave (discontinued for 2010)
3. Radical wave
4 JP Twinzer wave
5 Twinzer wave
6. Kauli Quad wave.

Want a waveboard - get a waveboard....!

I think Seahorse was trying to find a fin that kept the FSW controllable in high winds - not a wave slashing demon board. Because of tail size the FSW get's up n going super early anyway and yes does struggle waveriding as the zip usually pushes it past the face.
FSW will work a treat for us +85kg slightly unco heavy footed types (Stehsegler for someone who's pushing 100kg u r like a balarina on yer board) anyhoo, the limiting factor on the FSW for wave sailing is the powerbox fin system itself. No option for fin placement means roughly the middle of the road performance on all counts which is what the board is aimed at, blasting, jumping, tricks, waves. When I convert a fin for powerbox on a FSW I cut off the bolt tab (US box) right to the start of the fin itself and get the fin as far forward in the housing to make the board more turnable & snappy for side/onshore conditions. My suggestion is maybe as small as an 8inch MFC Tebouhl or Goya model fin or if u r lucky an old white Onshore model if u can find it. Maybe buy one off a Twinzer convert.
The best use for a JP fin is for throwing at someone who is attempting to break into your car, if it ends up lodged in a theifs head or lost in the bush then it's no real loss.

AB....

Try out a Fanatic freewave and you might just solve a few of your problems!

I have a 104 and its super versatile when its a bit light for the JP 92 twinnie and it still handles 4.7 weather in small medium waves. Great float and bottom turns easily with standard 29cm fin and you can push it pretty hard - as long as you bury the rail and throw the rig forward and get your hands back on the boom - no upright rig back bottom turns or you spin out every time. (I'm 87kgs)

The reason for a lot of (observation of crew sailing in waves) bottom turn spin out seems to be technique rather than board / fin - even my 112 skate is wave sailable - as long as you bury the rail and get the rig forward

my 2 cents worth

Select to expand quote

stehsegler said...

But in my opinion, and at my weight somewhere between 70-75kg (depending on season/what i had for breakfast), I fine that the FSW is terrible in the waves.

at 70-75 kgs I would say you would be better off with a 85 liter FSW or All round wave board.

True that, my waveboard is 84L twinser, thou for light days like 5.9 slogging days i use the 92, but probably gonna sell it cause i might as well use my freestyle board. otherwise something like the fanatic freewaves in the big sizes seem a lot better on the waves then the JP FSW

Select to expand quote

stehsegler said...

CJW said...

In my opinion a smaller fin will do little to help you bottom turn more effectively when overpowered on that board. I think in those conditions the board will just want to skip out no matter what fin you have in it. A 93L FSW just doesn't posses the shape or rails to be a good wave board in those conditions, unfortunately the best solution is to get a smaller wave board

Sorry to say but this only makes sense if your weight is a measly 60kgs... in which case you might as well look in the kiddy section for a board.

If your weight is anywhere over 85 kgs., which is the norm if you are not a 5.8 decedent of midget parents, you it really will need a big swell with a lot of wind for that board to be too big if you use a good small wave fin.

Take this for example, I sailed Shoalhaven Heads in mushi 5 foot cross onshore slop. I was nicely powered on a 4.7 (probably could have gone the 4.2). I used a 24 cm MFC wave fin on an '08 JP FSW 92. Perfect setup for my weight and the conditions. There where a number of people out on twin fin boards with bigger sails. Most of the time they seem to be struggling on the way out... then when they got the plane they all seemed to be dogging along.

don't get me wrong. I think a twin fin board with low volume can be bliss in places like Gnaraloo... but unless you have a bottom less wallet most people will have a one or maybe two board setup. In my opinion the JP FSW 92/ 84 for many years have been the perfect all-round boards for our coastal conditions here in Australia.

No, I am not sponsored by JP (unlike some people that here on this forum that speak favourable of brands like Starboard or JP). Just ask anyone that has a 92 or 84 FSW. You won't hear anything bad... except perhaps for the so so fins they ship with the boards.

If anyone from JP or any other brand for that matter is reading this. Please listen up. Stop insisting on shipping mediocre fins with your pro edition boards. Spend a few dollars extra and provide the option of get a set of two good quality fins from companies like MFC at a reasonable price. You customers will thank you greatly for it!

At the risk of taking this thread backwards a little I feel the need to defend myself after effectively being called a kid, and midget and an idiot.

Firstly seahorse's initial post in this topic gave 3 key pieces of information; board, type of sailing and wind strength. Now the type of sailing wasn't overly specific but given the reference to 'sticking' bottom turns it can be deduced that he is indeed interested in down the line wave sailing. This is the only information I had to go on so call me crazy for assuming a few things such as weight and height.

I've sailed a 92L FSW before in the waves and the first thing that came to my mind was not "it turns quite well" as you suggest, more along the lines of "holy crap on a cracker what a dud". Yeah I'm 72kg and a 'midget' at 5'11 but I don't care how fat you are, compared to say a RWW or a proper wave board, when in the waves, the FSW is basically aids in board form. I don't care what fin you put on it, it's not a board that conjurs up thougts such as 'epic bottom turn', nor does it make the path to bottom turns for someone who is interested in getting into waves any easier.

Now maybe if you aren't just interested in waves and want a board that freestyle, slalom etc then yeah maybe a FSW can fit the bill. However in the initial post there is no mention of other sailing such as "I primarily sail on the bay but am getting into waves...etc etc". With this in mind my only logical conclusion was to suggest a proper wave board as you'll get more enjoyment from it rather than flogging a half arsed horse. Information provided later in the thread may have led to a different suggestion but at the time I was not privy to said information.

End of the day, this is the internet, it's serious business. Sometimes in business you have to assume ****.


Edit: shens

Thanks for the efforts guys - decided to lay it all out in the open with a new thread so there's minimal assumptions required. Definitely keen on MFC fins of some kind though - thanks for that. board discussion now on www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=60671

Select to expand quote

stehsegler said...

CJW said...

In my opinion a smaller fin will do little to help you bottom turn more effectively when overpowered on that board. I think in those conditions the board will just want to skip out no matter what fin you have in it. A 93L FSW just doesn't posses the shape or rails to be a good wave board in those conditions, unfortunately the best solution is to get a smaller wave board

Sorry to say but this only makes sense if your weight is a measly 60kgs... in which case you might as well look in the kiddy section for a board.

If your weight is anywhere over 85 kgs., which is the norm if you are not a 5.8 decedent of midget parents, you it really will need a big swell with a lot of wind for that board to be too big if you use a good small wave fin.

85kgs the norm?? Maybe if you're a 6.6 decendant of a giraffe cross-bred with a silverback gorilla.
It's probably below the norm weight for the average aussie adult male.
But I doubt its the norm for the average aussie male windsurfer, and even more so, I bet its not the norm for the average aussie male adult wavesailor (which is the only focus of your comment here).

I'm 75 kgs and sail a 71L board 90% of the time (on the East coast too. ooooo!), the remaining time spent on a 78L, right down to gusty 10/12 knots with a 5.0

I agree with CJW and any other previous comments which basically say if you want decent performance/turning ability in the waves (even onshore), get a waveboard. No point splashing out on the latest and greatest wave fin if you're going to stick it in a FSW board.

If I put racing tyres on my sh1tty car, I don't think it'll suddenly become a racing car.

Select to expand quote

stehsegler said...

Take this for example, I sailed Shoalhaven Heads

well there's your problem right there.


My 2 cents. Round it down to zero if you wish.

Anyone under 85 kg's isn't eating enough pizza and drinking enough beer

I love planing past people with a smile on my face and having a great time while others are sinking on their low volume wave boards - FSW cant be surfed in waves what a load of waa - maybe it just takes a little more skill

A couple of points... the weight/ height ration was meant to be a joke... however as Seahorse points out in a later post he is actually 90kgs.

Also, I hope none of you guys work in a windsurf shop. To recommend someone they'd be better to fork out $2000+ for a new wave boards instead of first trying out a $150 fin (which they can use in future anyway) doesn't make for a very happy return customer.

Select to expand quote

stehsegler said...

A couple of points... the weight/ height ration was meant to be a joke... however as Seahorse points out in a later post he is actually 90kgs.

Also, I hope none of you guys work in a windsurf shop. To recommend someone they'd be better to fork out $2000+ for a new wave boards instead of first trying out a $150 fin (which they can use in future anyway) doesn't make for a very happy return customer.

make more money selling suckers waveboards [}:)]

but yeah you have a point, as his weight 90kg the FSW probably works reasonably well as a wave board cause you need that extra volume at the rear. I figured he was lighter, and a 92L fsw really isn't a great wave board for lighter people.

I greenthumbed you to get rid of the mysterious red-thumbers.

UPDATE to fill in all those who contributed. I have stuck with the JP FSW for now and decided to try the MFC fins - ZACD got in contact and I purchased a couple of MFC powerbox fins from him (an onshore wave and K-1 22cm). On Sunday I got to try out the K-1 in 5.0m conditions and it was great - board is a lot more settled and although I wasn't wave-riding the gybing was sooooooo much better than what I had experienced with the JP fin that just wanted to eject the board all the time or spin out - I was able to commit to gybes in chop etc that I woudn't have dreamed of making in the past - all resulted in an awesome session and me having far more trust to commit - all of which I hope can be translated to the waves. Thanks to all who pointed me toward MFC - don't think I'll ever buy a different brand for wave style fins - now I'm keen for say a larger freewave model for the lighter days too!